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OfflinebizzaroSquirrel
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psychedelic "insight"
    #4668749 - 09/16/05 08:02 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Just a question on the supposed insight given by psychedelics, because im currently in two minds about it.

Ok, so i have only tripped twice (first hunting season this year :grin:), they weren't very high level trips, but still very cool.  i would say lev 1-2 (in a forest) the first time then maybe 3 or so the second one (in the city).  Anyway, the second one was pretty intense for me, and fuckin mentally exhausting.

I was in a large park in the city (thought the trees would be nice) with my bro, but the general theme of the trip was "hell on earth"; too many people, too many barriers, too ugly, nothing was natural, even the trees were grown in predefined areas etc etc.  It was a great trip anyway, but left the feeling of life just being a cliche, why waste time with material goods and all that.

So i have always sort of seen this normally, but on mushrooms in the city, it was SO CLEAR.  Life was so amazingly transperant; it seemed like my mind was finally able to really grasp it for once. 

But then, looking back, the simple fact still remains: i had a head full of drugs.

So why did it seem so real?  And is there any truth to it?
Am i making any sense?  Why would an altered state seem more real than my normal reality?

squirrel  :crazy2:


--------------------
Hello Friends.
I am a perfectly normal human worm baby.
You have nothing, absolutely nothing to fear from me, just pay no attention to me and we will get along fine.


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OfflineSiRpAbLoEsCoBaR
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: bizzaroSquirrel]
    #4668756 - 09/16/05 08:12 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"So i have always sort of seen this normally, but on mushrooms in the city, it was SO CLEAR. Life was so amazingly transperant; it seemed like my mind was finally able to really grasp it for once."

This is known as psyco-spiritual enlightenment. I have experienced this after the one time i ate mushrooms and multiple times after ecstasy.

And i think you stopped making sense when your started asking questions.

If you really want to get into NOTHING to you is real. The neocortex of your brain builds like a virtual model of the world and you live in this world until something in that world is changed. Your mind can make you see, hear, or feel things that aernt there even not under psychoactive chemicals. I believe that one reason for it is that your brain is constantly predicting the future. It is what makes us intelligent.

Not sure you were looking for my little bit of knowledge in neurobiology but if ya were then there ya go....


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: bizzaroSquirrel]
    #4668828 - 09/16/05 09:59 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

But then, looking back, the simple fact still remains: i had a head full of drugs.




That "simple" "fact".Simple? "Fact"?

Apparently we grow up in a society that we learn from a young age (and that doesnt mean only explicit learning),that "drugs are bad". Being drug free is "natura".Being "under  the influence" is unnatural,bad,evil dirty. Good luck uprooting these concepts from someones mind ,goodluck uprooting a whole lifeworth of teachings from society.

Does anyone in here think that the brain is a static,chemicalless structure? Are the days you feel down "normal and natural",are the days you feel happy "normal and natural" as well? Our brain operates with the help of many neurons and many chemicals simply put. Those chemicals can fluctuate and cause different emotions.But we perceive those fluctuation as "normal emotions" because no illegal chemicals were involved at least to our knowledge. A different diet could effect your emotions but since no "drugs" are involved is "natural". A break up can affect you up to the point of suicide in some individuals but since no explicit "drug use" was involved is still "natural" ,"real".

So what makes the supplementation of a serotonine analog (read psilocin) to your diet "unnatural" ,"false" ,"induced"? Several clauses : Its not a part of your diet,who cares if you go on a meat or veggie eating spree and your mood changes its natural. Its not approved by your mother,state,society, who cares if you drink coffee and its wakes you up its ok since everyone does it. Its also illegal to sell and obtain ,who cares about nicotine you buy it with no shame ,someone sells it with no shame and you can smoke them almost everywhere whereas some other transactions need to be done in secrecy.

So what do YOU define to be "normal","true" ,"natural"? Does it have any basis apart from that it is socially predifined and socially taught?

My post doesnt advocate "drug lifestyles" but it gives food for thought.


My friend,the questions you have are important and very very very to the point.Yup,mushrooms worked ,they made you think! Remember that the trip,the intense,philosophical,bewildering trip starts AFTER the psychedelic's action has faded to the baseline :laugh:

Ponder on this :laugh:


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Offlineastabooty
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: bizzaroSquirrel]
    #4669384 - 09/16/05 01:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Ever read a sentence over and over and it makes no sense? Ever look at a mathematical equation and be totally stumped?
Later you come back with a clear(er) mind and look at it and instantly realize what you did wrong and solve the problem? All you did was look at a situation with a different mindset/perspective. That is what you are doing while on shrooms.


--------------------


my t-shirt website www.fashionasta.com


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: bizzaroSquirrel]
    #4669456 - 09/16/05 01:42 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

All the filters that keep us "sane"(HA) were removed. Your eyes were opened...


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4669702 - 09/16/05 02:39 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

mmm, you need to be careful with insights and epiphanies on drugs. come back to them in a sober state, and see if you still feel the same way. i know i've "discovered" some things while tripping that were utter nonsense. and i've discovered some things that were so accurate i was scared to write them down.

mushrooms can give you a different perspective, which is great. although it seems rather in your case to have enhanced your current perspective, which is great too. it felt so "clear", yes because you had a head full of drugs, but that doesn't mak it less significant, just different. it still means something.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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OfflinebizzaroSquirrel
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: Psiloman]
    #4672076 - 09/17/05 01:20 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

First of all thanks everybody for the replies.

Psiloman, i think your post has a lot of relevance.  It is possible that societies' view on drugs has washed off on me too much (dammit), which is why i'm questioning the valitity of my thoughts while on them.  Just can't help but feel that i should be able to see these things when i wake up in the morning, and when i go to bed at night.

Quote:

So what do YOU define to be "normal","true" ,"natural"? Does it have any basis apart from that it is socially predifined and socially taught?



I'd side with what i saw while on mushrooms, but then the other 99% of people...


and entiformatie,
Quote:

i know i've "discovered" some things while tripping that were utter nonsense. and i've discovered some things that were so accurate i was scared to write them down.



hmm, this sorta hits home too.  But, how the hell are you meant to distinguish between the nonsense and plausible thoughts that come to you when on psychedelics?  I guess this is what i was asking in the first post too.

This probably all has to do with an itch at the back of my brain, but i have no fucking idea what it is, so i can't ask the questions to find out.  It's there tho... in time i guess.

cheers,
squirrel  :crazy:


--------------------
Hello Friends.
I am a perfectly normal human worm baby.
You have nothing, absolutely nothing to fear from me, just pay no attention to me and we will get along fine.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: bizzaroSquirrel]
    #4672135 - 09/17/05 01:30 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I have also experienced pschedelic insight. However, insight and the ideas you get are not the same, I think. For example you might get an idea... like for example: life is defined by hands.

To a certain extent this is true. Being human we don't really notice this but our lives are dominated by hands (you're looking at two right now if you decide to reply to this message).

But that is just a bad idea I think. It is true but not really that profound.

When it comes to actual insights/elightenment, it is more of a feeling or philosophy that seems to be "true". These can be caried out of the trip and stay with you throughout your life. In other words you can reach the same state of mind without the halucinogen.

So I don't put much thought into the ideas I get but I treasure the insights and feelings of enlightenment forever.

Ok now I've confused you even more :crazy:


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Invisibleanonymous0
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: bizzaroSquirrel]
    #4672205 - 09/17/05 01:42 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bizzaroSquirrel said:

Quote:

i know i've "discovered" some things while tripping that were utter nonsense. and i've discovered some things that were so accurate i was scared to write them down.



hmm, this sorta hits home too. But, how the hell are you meant to distinguish between the nonsense and plausible thoughts that come to you when on psychedelics? I guess this is what i was asking in the first post too.

This probably all has to do with an itch at the back of my brain, but i have no fucking idea what it is, so i can't ask the questions to find out. It's there tho... in time i guess.





wow, i cannot express how glad i am to read this, since i've experienced so much frustration with exactly this.
when i smoke ganja, i have all these SEEMINGLY amazing life-altering genius thoughts about the universe and how it works, and i write them all down usually, and then in the morning, half of them are still really cool and make a lot of sense, and half of them are complete bullshit that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. it's so frustrating, because it has caused so much self-doubt..how can i trust my sense of "logic" when my brain is so muddled??

my sense of logic seems to have dissolved, and i can't trust myself to rationally figure out what "makes sense" anymore or to validate or refute an idea that i have come up with.

huh.
peace


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Offlineleery11
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: anonymous0]
    #4672289 - 09/17/05 02:02 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

plausible thoughts arise when normal thoughts stop ... if you sit and meditate (or stand and meditate) or just meditate in general... you'll know a plausible thought from nonsense, because nonsense comes from the ego trying to divert the thought into its familiar paradigms, taking you out of the pure experience of revelation.

so what did i just realize? Well... hmm... well I realized meditation is good! I made some prayers for healing, and I learned how to carry a mantra from the depths of near-forgetting up into the throat and convert it into energy which is synesthetically linked to the sound of the mantra in your head.

you'll know you have a great thought when it blows your mind and then the ego starts translating it and dilluting its truth because you're afraid of what you are thinking about because it's so out there.....


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlinepuwtrip
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: leery11]
    #4672460 - 09/17/05 02:34 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

the experience is yours and you can do what you want with it. ignore it or follow up on it. there is no bad or good. it's just a choice. if there is one thing you need in life, it's a mission. sadly (it seems) we often don't have one and end up finding ways to entertain ourselves or exist until death.


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: puwtrip]
    #4673121 - 09/17/05 07:24 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

hmm, this sorta hits home too. But, how the hell are you meant to distinguish between the nonsense and plausible thoughts that come to you when on psychedelics? I guess this is what i was asking in the first post too.

This probably all has to do with an itch at the back of my brain, but i have no fucking idea what it is, so i can't ask the questions to find out. It's there tho... in time i guess.





Quote:

wow, i cannot express how glad i am to read this, since i've experienced so much frustration with exactly this.
when i smoke ganja, i have all these SEEMINGLY amazing life-altering genius thoughts about the universe and how it works, and i write them all down usually, and then in the morning, half of them are still really cool and make a lot of sense, and half of them are complete bullshit that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. it's so frustrating, because it has caused so much self-doubt..how can i trust my sense of "logic" when my brain is so muddled??

my sense of logic seems to have dissolved, and i can't trust myself to rationally figure out what "makes sense" anymore or to validate or refute an idea that i have come up with.




Two things to keep in mind!

1) Imagination oftens differs from insight. Yes,on psychedelics imagination runs wild so one can try to take a break from substances (yes,i certainly DO NOT advocate CONTINUOUS use) and see what he thinks in everyday life as well. What you felt as genius was imagination! Is it completely worthless? No ,you can even write a sci-fi book with it!

2)Dont dogmatize! So on mushrooms it was revealed to you that "Psilocin superconducts your DNA and it becomes a portal to the otherworld.So everyone is out to get you because NOW you KNOW THE SECRET". Ok....Take a deep breath...Hang on a minute! The next day think it over...You will see it propably isnt that way. Thats what we mean be checking!

There are two "schools" of thought,since people in general like the two extremes and rarely are balanced :

a) Fah-get-about-it : "I was under the influence,its all drug induced ,its all crap ,these were lunatics thoughts"

b) I-received-the-Bible : "Yes, everything i saw was true so my mother is a five winged carrot floating around the big IT "

Just go somewhere in the middle! Dont throw away what you saw,dont accept it uncoditionally. It really helps also if you take a break from ALL other substances as well to be sure that you will be thinking on it with "baseline" consciousness

ALso keep in mind that noone is going to receive "galactic equations describingthe roatation of the galaxy" during the mushroom trip.The insights are of personal nature,and you can dwell on them,see if they describe you,see if they are true


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OfflineLazyCrash
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Re: psychedelic "insight" [Re: bizzaroSquirrel]
    #4673381 - 09/17/05 10:54 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bizzaroSquirrel said:
Quote:

i know i've "discovered" some things while tripping that were utter nonsense. and i've discovered some things that were so accurate i was scared to write them down.



hmm, this sorta hits home too. But, how the hell are you meant to distinguish between the nonsense and plausible thoughts that come to you when on psychedelics? I guess this is what i was asking in the first post too.




At one point, after tripping enough, you can straight up tell the difference between an illusionary hallucination, a synchronicit hallucination, and other visual phenomena seen during a trip. The more you experience, the more you know.

This goes for mental things too. After awhile, you know what insight is from your current self, your higher self, or just percieved of.

I have no proof of this, but its how I feel. Once you breakthrough the bizzare and come to understanding what exactly is happening to you physically, mentally, and spiritually while tripping....its really like they are the key to understanding the universe. Its hard to argue when there is SO much literature and history that relates. The proof is in the puddin'.


--------------------
:mallow:


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