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InvisibleMokshaMan
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Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 280
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: mm.]
    #467254 - 11/23/01 02:32 AM (22 years, 7 months ago)

I would argue that there is such a thing as absolutes, such as good and evil. I would also argue that much of what's defined as good or evil has no such value and is in fact neutral. Not everything is good or evil, yet since people like to categorize everything they have to give a value to nearly all things. Murder is universally condemned when commited by a person(even war is often considered a "necessary evil"), this does not seem to apply to states the same way since they are a collective(generally working for what they think is the "common good"). Take the act of Sept 11, every government in the world condemned it(even Iraq who absolutely hates the US; not Saddam, Iraq). I would argue that any individual forcing his/her will on anyone else without the others permission is evil. Anything else might be defined as wrong, but I wouldn't consider it to fall into the category of evil. I would also futher argue that any form of self-sacrifice that goes against human nature's drive for self preservation is good. Anything else might be defined as right, but I wouldn't consider it to fall into the category of good. Of course, I believe in the idea of absolutes and these are of course opinions that I doubt any of us could prove one way or another.


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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell

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Offlinemissulena
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: MokshaMan]
    #467265 - 11/23/01 02:55 AM (22 years, 7 months ago)

Aggression and love are for self preservation, aggression helps you defend yourself and your offspring, sex passes on your genes

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Offlinelautir777_666
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Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 5
Loc: CA
Last seen: 22 years, 6 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
    #467486 - 11/23/01 11:17 AM (22 years, 7 months ago)

Thinking...

God came into the discussion at some point. If there is a God and it gave us free will, as we are taught, then why would God interact with "us" at all. For any interaction would assume influence and therefore negate the potential to choose of one's own accord. This would also rule out the fallacy of judgment by some divine essence. If judgment were to be a reality, then it would hinder the ability to assert free will. One would be making decisions based on conditioning and negative reinforcement. That is not free will.
So if the individual possesses free will, then "good" or "evil" would purely be a subjective ascription of meaning.
Nonetheless, "good" and "evil" are simply synonyms for "this" and "that"...the recognition of opposite extremities. The delineation of categories appears to perpetuate the mundane. Opposite extremities are arbitrary conjurings. Engage the undivided whole.
I am.
Self preservation was mentioned along with the sex/aggression belief. Why would a being be concerned with self preservation if it is existing within infinity? It will always be despite any conjecture put forth by the individual human mind. The want to bridle these concepts and make them facilitate an end can be an anchor.
An aspect of the human condition once conveyed to me, "...the sage concentrateth upon one Will, and it is as a light to the whole world."
Let us collectively embrace the next cycle; a different alignment that may harbor no thought at all.


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? ciaofi od rit comselha v manin de iad ?

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OfflineMrKurtz
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Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 303
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: missulena]
    #467873 - 11/23/01 10:25 PM (22 years, 7 months ago)

Well, rape is considered sex, and it was the most widespread form of sex in many barbaric cultures. Does that make it a good thing?

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Offlinemissulena
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: MrKurtz]
    #467899 - 11/23/01 10:46 PM (22 years, 7 months ago)

no human would believe rape is a good thing.
There are exceptions but in general what i said before is how it works i think or do you think overall sex is a bad thing?

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: missulena]
    #467966 - 11/23/01 11:33 PM (22 years, 7 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
    #468003 - 11/24/01 12:25 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Ya, I hate when your posts get deleted... especially long ones.

Anyhow, I recently told one of my friends that "you haven't lived until you've dug up a body." or something like that. I wasn't takling about necrophelia or anything, just diggin it up. He's not a very good person, but he thought that was pretty evil, and he shared that opinion with me very strongly. We didn't really reach an agreement about this being right or wrong, he just insisted I was a freak. (He was the one singing along to the headstones song: "I went down to the cemetary, lookin for love. Got there but my baby was buried, had to dig her up...")


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Ulysees]
    #468012 - 11/24/01 12:55 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: missulena]
    #468043 - 11/24/01 01:35 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I think what he's saying is that the same physical act in a different context can change your perception of the act.

Take, killing a human being.

Killing a human being in war to save civilians would be considered by many/most, as good.

Killing a little old lady walking down the street at night on her way to see her granchildren would be considered evil by most.

The physical acts are the same: killing a person. The situation surrounding the events is completely different.

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Offlinemissulena
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Kid]
    #468098 - 11/24/01 03:03 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

There are beliefs on murder that all established cultures share-

Killing within your own community has not been exceptable in any culture that has survived for long because if it was exceptable they would wipe themselves out very quickly.

I dont think any mentally healthy person sees killing as good maybe they see it as necessary in some situations but how often do you hear about soldiers who have killed that suffer deep psycological damage after murdering? its not beneficial to the individual or the community unless its the only option when trying to protect your community from enemies

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OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
Posts: 2,015
Loc: cave
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: missulena]
    #468288 - 11/24/01 10:45 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

We percieve reallity through subjective pathways. So, everything is subjective in some way.

I developed good / bad idea, using some "axioms" (wich are trully subjective off course) That means that we as a human beings in this world have a mission here. We have to live! We have to win over ourselves. Something as a superman. Anything that causes us going toward that goal is good, and anything that disturbs as in that way is bad.


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OfflineKeepAskingTime
addict
Registered: 05/14/01
Posts: 596
Loc: Central PA
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Crobih]
    #468326 - 11/24/01 11:56 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I like your thought Crobih. I agree.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Kid]
    #468572 - 11/24/01 05:59 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks Kid, that was more or less it. ;)
Dude, I said it wasn't necrophelia, and I didn't mention killing or eating a human, just diggin'. heh heh. I haven't dug up a body though.
If you're going to dig up a body, check the obituary. Make sure it's fairly recent, and natural causes would be best. There you go, a body in this condition shouldn't be too disturbing, should it? Ah hah hahah!
"Was he serious?"
"He was kidding, right...?"
I'll never tell...


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Ulysees]
    #468612 - 11/24/01 06:53 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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Offlinemissulena
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Crobih]
    #468645 - 11/24/01 07:53 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I wont forgive

Edited by missulena (11/24/01 08:32 PM)

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: missulena]
    #468663 - 11/24/01 08:14 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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Offlinemissulena
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? *DELETED* [Re: World Spirit]
    #468675 - 11/24/01 08:37 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by missulena

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: missulena]
    #468677 - 11/24/01 08:41 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Deleted by admin

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Offlinemissulena
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 251
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
    #468694 - 11/24/01 09:21 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)



oh shit...sorry about that enter

im gonna do a runner now
see ya

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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: missulena]
    #468726 - 11/24/01 10:08 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

> There are beliefs on murder that all established cultures share-

Murder is a definition of killing based on a context: Murder IS the ***WRONGFUL*** killing of a human being. By definition murder is wrong. Killing is not wrong by definition. For something to be murder, it MUST be wrong. To be killing, it doesn't have to be wrong (but can be).

> Killing within your own community has not been exceptable in any culture

What about capital punishment? Or ritual sacrifice? Some cultures used to kill thousands of their own.

> I dont think any mentally healthy person sees killing as good maybe they see it as necessary in some situations but how often do you hear about soldiers who have killed that suffer deep psycological damage after murdering?

You hear about it, but it wouldn't be news to say that soldier X killed people and now he's fine.

> its not beneficial to the individual or the community unless its the only option when trying to protect your community from enemies

You can make a case for any kind of killing (see above: killing criminals and sacrificing to gods).

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