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 World Spirit
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 Is there good? Is there evil? 
#466256 - 11/22/01 12:32 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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World Spirit
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 Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#466257 - 11/22/01 12:33 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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World Spirit
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#466260 - 11/22/01 12:38 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#466325 - 11/22/01 01:42 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, I think you're shooting kind of shallow in the "good vs. evil" pool. There are a lot of things to consider...
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 justthiz
prozac über alles
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#466407 - 11/22/01 05:11 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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"For instance, I just got a new car and it is GOOD!!!!"
It's GOOD!!! For YOU maybe... but what about nature ? more cars aren't really good for the environment ... so it's EVIL!!! for nature...
I guess it's not that easy ... good/bad
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World Spirit
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: justthiz]
#466517 - 11/22/01 08:25 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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mm.
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#466557 - 11/22/01 10:48 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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I guess the new car is an example of subjective good/evil, whereas torturing someone could be regarded as objectively evil. This raises the question; are there 'universal ethical principles' which apply to the actions of everyone? For example, if someone is tortured to death against their will, and that results in 1 or more other lives being saved, is that good or evil? Is there any way to objectively quantify the 'evil' in an action in order to weight it up against the 'good' that comes from it... because if there isnt, there can be no universal moral code.
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HARRY
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 Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#466579 - 11/22/01 11:45 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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So your question is whether there is good and evil. This can be answered in a few ways. Firstly: there is no true good and evil! good and evil are completely subjective, if a child was brought up to belive that punching people was a good deed, then he would belive in that as strongly as you would belive that that is evil his judgement of good and evil will be just as valid as yours. Secondly there IS good and evil, because a lot of people are unable to think in abstract (to put it bluntly most ppl are stupid) they have to seperate deeds into two catergories: good/bad. Society desides what is good and bad. For example if the majority of people punched eachother as a good deed, then the few people that refused to punch others would probably be arested and called evil, but it turns out that our society condones punching eachother. So if you want to be led by your society then you would have to obey the society's defenition of good and bad.
I think that seperating things into good/bad, black/white masculine/feminine undermines human's ability to think 'multidimentionally' for example when you think in terms of good and bad, you think in two dimentions. Some people can think in many dimensions for example if you put neutral in between good and bad. that would be thinking in three dimensions, most people think in at least three dimensions also people can easily add dimensions to this formula: Good, Ok, Not Bad, Neutral, Not So Good, Bad, Terrible. I call this grey logic, i.e. you dont think in balck and white logic but can create shades of grey in between Black and White.
Although thinking in gray logic is an improvement on black and white logic (or two dimensional logic), there is still the need for the opposites: good and bad, but the most difficult, abstract way to think is in one dimension. Because you only have lets say neutral, you can be more objective, you can think of things in a non-linear manner, greatly improving your capacity for thought and comunication.
The only time i manage to think in one dimension is either while tripping, meditating or dreaming. I definately think that the next step for human evolution is to learn how to think and comunicate in one dimension. If you think about it, the lack of good and bad would create a world without disagreement, wars and suffering, but also no excitement, enjoyment or hapiness.
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Anonymous
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#466922 - 11/22/01 07:49 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Regardless, good and evil exist simultaneously in all things. It's a matter of perception, really.
If someone were to kill your mom and skin her alive, that would probably be BAD..for you, but what about the person commiting the crime? Perhaps he may think that your mother will one day rise to power and construct a weapon that would destroy all of humanity...and the only way he can stop this is to kill her, so he feels he is doing good.
If someone were to buy me a pasta dinner and cut me a check for $3000, like you said..by most standards that would be considered good. But what if this person has three starving children at home and only enough money to pay the bills...this would be seen as a BAD thing by his wife.
Or how about the holocaust, this was seen as BAD by most of the world...yet at the same time Hitler and his cronies saw what they were doing as a GOOD thing.
Really...it is a matter of who you ask. In this third dimensional world we live in, we fail to see the big picture most of the time. It can be hard to recognize that Good and Evil are one in the same. It's like you are standing in the middle of a yin yang, and if you look one way all you see is black...if you look the other way all you see is white. Yet if you are looking at it from above you see that it is a yin yang, and the black and white are both inside the same circle.
Edited by Shroomism (11/22/01 07:52 PM)
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Tamrylin
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: ]
#466927 - 11/22/01 07:56 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Good and bad are neither subjective nor whatever. Perception is a weak human ideal. Good and evil are both infinite in everything. You glancec through the doors of perception and see something which you base opinions on and then judge with. Some, as I, will be totally lost but follow a religion as a guide. I, being human, cannot comprehend good or evil but trust that God will let me know. I am not a sheep, i am a small child being led by the hand
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Ulysees
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Tamrylin]
#466946 - 11/22/01 08:26 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm seeing some good stuff here... A PRIME example of this is Bush saying "I'm going to rid the world of evil-doers." (an actual quote, though it may have been "we" or something else...) WELL BUSH, here's a pistol loaded with one bullet. GO HARD! heh heh. That is definately not to say that Terrorists are good, or that Bush is the only Bad man in the world... it all depends on whose side you look at it from. I just happen to be blessed (cursed) with a very wide perception, and therefore rarely take sides (when I do, I'm pretty damn sure I've looked at it every possible way...). I think I'd make a good Judge, or juror. (you may not think so, depending on the things I might do in that position. perception.)
You very rarely make a right choice, or a good choice, but if you're lucky it's the lesser of two evils...
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#467007 - 11/22/01 09:45 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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As an observable, physical phenomena, I would say no, good and evil do not exist. As categories that we have created, yes, they exist. We defined them. Some definitions of good and evil, however, may contradict each other.
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Kid
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#467008 - 11/22/01 09:47 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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> If I slowly torture you and skin you alive, that is EVIL.
WHY?
Maybe it's good. Maybe it's neither good nor evil.
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Kid]
#467032 - 11/22/01 10:12 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you were to slowly skin me alive, you might be able to cut a record and sell it in the satanist rings, and make a fortune, then I'd be pissed 'cuz you were a millionare. Bastards!!!
One has to realize that good and evil, as a whole, are the same thing. Not that the two are equal, but that they are the same. I'm confused on how they can be mis-identified as seperate. Even our own physical bodies cannot tell the difference between the two. Our mind and body act in exactly the same physical ways in responce to love, and hate, as well as fear. Same chemicals, same pathways, same physical responces. Increased heart and endocrine rates, increased endorphine levels, sweating, increased epinephrine and nor-epinephrine. Yet somehow we interpret them differently.
So in short, no I don't agree.
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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice
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World Spirit
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Kid]
#467040 - 11/22/01 10:20 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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MrKurtz
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: Kid]
#467044 - 11/22/01 10:23 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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"As an observable, physical phenomena, I would say no, good and evil do not exist. "
I would say if something that leaves a "bad taste" in my mind is evil. If i see a women lying dead in the street who was raped and beaten to death... that would be an evil scene. But, to someone else it might turn them on or something. Its a matter of perception, but everything is. Good and evil are intangible, like spirituality, sexuality, etc. Everyone has a different view on it, and no one is universally right. I think the question is, is anything good or evil to you?
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missulena
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: MrKurtz]
#467187 - 11/23/01 12:44 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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The two main drives in a human being are sex and aggression also called love and hate or good and evil you can let either way take over the way you think but its only either good or bad to humanity, they are abstract concepts that dont exist outside the human mind
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Kid
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: World Spirit]
#467228 - 11/23/01 01:59 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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> So, who gets to decide what is good and evil? Obviously the governments of the nations/kingdoms/world do. And so do we as individuals. Now, let's add God into the mix.
Yes, I'd agree. Basically, society as a whole creates what is good or evil. I think evidence supporting this position is that many ideas of good are pro-socially oriented (don't kill; love your neighbor; etc.)
> If God exists and we as individuals can prove it to ourselves, do we take the idea that everything God says is perfectly accurate and His "good" should be followed and what God states is "evil" should not be done
Yes, but of course, that's *IF* God exists, and *IF* you can proove that to yourself, which are two pretty big ifs.
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Kid
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: MrKurtz]
#467229 - 11/23/01 02:01 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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> I think the question is, is anything good or evil to you?
To me, sometimes yes, and sometimes no. My perception about such things changes.
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MokshaMan
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Registered: 03/12/01
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Re: Is there good? Is there evil? [Re: missulena]
#467239 - 11/23/01 02:16 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Self preservation isn't a major drive of humans?
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Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell
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