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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Moonshoe]
#4661852 - 09/14/05 07:27 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why should I care about the delusions of a bunch of hairless monkies?
No one's going to change; at most, people will just adopt more mythology and pseudoscience to make their meaningless lives have some superficial purpose. 2012! Mayans! Well, the Mayans are dead; the Europeans killed them off long ago. I know you didn't specifically bring this up, but your post had the same ring of the 2012 posts I've been reading.
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The transformation cannot be explained in words, but words can paint a vague picture. It is a freedom from the slavery we have imposed on ourselves. It is a freedom from the poisons of fear, guilt, shame, inadequacy, confusion, self destruction, and basically an end to the impulses of negation, of death.
As if those things are inherently bad? Some of those things only enslave you if you let them enslave you, but if you use them as tools to greatness, they can actually help you prosper. Fear, guilt, confusion, all of these are natural emotions made for a certain environment; evidently, if you're feeling them constantly, your environment is not healthy. It's the human tendency to blame the warning signals instead of the cause, but the warning signals were developed by evolution for a reason, and are actually only trying to help you.
I disagree with all of your post, but assuming we both live, at least your post is testable. I say everything will continue towards decay, human society will continue to run on greed (a necessary tool for large-scale permanent gatherings of hairless monkies) and that no one's going to "expand their consciousness" or "live in the NOW" because there's no such thing.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Ravus]
#4661880 - 09/14/05 07:33 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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"and that no one's going to "expand their consciousness" or "live in the NOW" because there's no such thing."
how can you say there is no such thing? are you honestly telling me you've never been absorbed in the moment, fully conciouss, alert, aware but not troubling yourself with worries and imaginings about the past and future? how can you say a certain state of consciousness doesn't exist?
Edited by Deviate (09/14/05 07:33 PM)
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Deviate]
#4661893 - 09/14/05 07:35 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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"No one's going to change; at most, people will just adopt more mythology and pseudoscience to make their meaningless lives have some superficial purpose."
human consciousness has been evolving for thousands of years. are you saying its evolution has stopped?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Ravus]
#4661911 - 09/14/05 07:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Boo Hoo Hoo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Deviate]
#4661925 - 09/14/05 07:41 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ravus is not one of us hairless monkeys, can't you tell. Or maybe it's just self loathing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Deviate]
#4661943 - 09/14/05 07:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Evolution never stops as long as life continues to reproduce, but accepting more mythology, more religion, more baseless philosophies and more bullshit isn't going to help the human race. It might help stop individual humans from killing themselves in an otherwise meaningless world, but that doesn't do anything for the expansion of the human race as a whole.
The only way humans will "evolve" (not the biological usage of the word) is to stop believing in false religions and full-heartedly accept science. This will allow humans to live longer, healthier lives, gain much more knowledge, even help us colonize other planets in the future, as the best the human race can hope for is to expand beyond our earthly boundaries permanently.
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how can you say there is no such thing? are you honestly telling me you've never been absorbed in the moment, fully conciouss, alert, aware but not troubling yourself with worries and imaginings about the past and future? how can you say a certain state of consciousness doesn't exist?
It's mostly New Age rhetoric, but the truth is there's no way not to live in the present. The present is, by definition, the only moment you can exist in. All emotions, thoughts and memories exist in the present. You don't need to do anything to live in the current moment, because if you didn't live in the current moment, chances are you'd be dead.
I've had times where I didn't worry about anything, but I don't see how this is any different from injecting a massive dose of heroin and nodding off, except for the fact that it's not nearly as pleasurable or interesting.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Icelander]
#4661951 - 09/14/05 07:46 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Ravus is not one of us hairless monkeys, can't you tell. Or maybe it's just self loathing.
Or self examination. As an advanced mammal, I can, for an instant, step back and look at the human race in a more third-person sense. Most others can do this too, but they're too absorbed in their own bullshit to look at humans without the hindrances of emotions or bonds.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Ravus]
#4661987 - 09/14/05 07:52 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Ravus is not one of us hairless monkeys, can't you tell. Or maybe it's just self loathing.
Or self examination. As an advanced mammal, I can, for an instant, step back and look at the human race in a more third-person sense. Most others can do this too, but they're too absorbed in their own bullshit to look at humans without the hindrances of emotions or bonds.
I'll remember you said that.
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It might help stop individual humans from killing themselves in an otherwise meaningless world
How do you know the world is meaningless?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Ravus]
#4662041 - 09/14/05 08:00 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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" Evolution never stops as long as life continues to reproduce, but accepting more mythology, more religion, more baseless philosophies and more bullshit isn't going to help the human race. It might help stop individual humans from killing themselves in an otherwise meaningless world, but that doesn't do anything for the expansion of the human race as a whole.
The only way humans will "evolve" (not the biological usage of the word) is to stop believing in false religions and full-heartedly accept science. This will allow humans to live longer, healthier lives, gain much more knowledge, even help us colonize other planets in the future, as the best the human race can hope for is to expand beyond our earthly boundaries permanently."
so in other words you're saying humans should move into a more rational state of consciousness in which they think more scientifically as opposed to mythologically. it sounds like you are advocating the exact thing which you claim does not exist.
"It's mostly New Age rhetoric, but the truth is there's no way not to live in the present. The present is, by definition, the only moment you can exist in. All emotions, thoughts and memories exist in the present. You don't need to do anything to live in the current moment, because if you didn't live in the current moment, chances are you'd be dead.
I've had times where I didn't worry about anything, but I don't see how this is any different from injecting a massive dose of heroin and nodding off, except for the fact that it's not nearly as pleasurable or interesting. "
the difference is obvious. school is a perfect example, i stuggled through 2 years of college barely passing my classes and feeling completely overwhelmed by it even though the work load i was taking was about half of what i have now. why? because i wasn't focused, my mind would constantly start drifting off into thoughts about the past and future and i'd be unable to pay attention in class. now that i have discovered how to "be in the present" i am earning a 4.0 in all my classes. the difference between "being in the present" and taking heroin in this: when you take heroin you go into the present l but not conscioussly, you are not alert and aware, you are not focused and not paying attention to your surroundings. the type of being in the present im talking about means being perfectly focused, perfectly aware and free from distractions so your mind can work as smoothly as possible. it feels like being in a trance but it is a focused trance.
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Deviate]
#4662067 - 09/14/05 08:05 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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and of course you are right that you are always in the present, the difference is at times you are in the present but your attention is contaminated by distracting thoughts. at other times it is not contaminated and that is what i mean by being in the present.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Deviate]
#4662080 - 09/14/05 08:07 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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How did you develope your powers of concentration? What has changed?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Deviate]
#4662093 - 09/14/05 08:10 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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So it is not actually being in the NOW, because that's really just a term without literal meaning, but having concentration towards your current affairs? But presumably this would be for your personal benefit- so would concentration or, as New Agers call it, "living in the NOW", simply be another tool of expansion?
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Icelander]
#4662149 - 09/14/05 08:22 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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" How did you develope your powers of concentration? What has changed? "
well i noticed that as soon as i would smoke marijuana i would immediately go into a trance state of mind and immediately my worries and the problems that seemed so real would fall away from me. it would be like a huge burden was lifted from my mind and underneith the huge mess there was a nice peaceful spot where i could simply observe myself and the world around me. from this state i would notice many things i normally tended to overlook and so i spent a lot of time learning to maintain awareness and to continue to do so even when i wasn't high. i studied spiritual teachings and basically just stopped the endless search for pleasure in the world and instead started looking for cotentment in my mind. i basically realized that what was making me suffer was not the problems i face in the physical world but rather the painful thoughts i associate with them and underneith those thoughts there is a peaceful awareness which is the true doer (meaning its possible to do unpleasant things like geting up out of bed in the morning without thinking any unpleasant thoughts at all).
Edited by Deviate (09/14/05 08:32 PM)
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Deviate]
#4662198 - 09/14/05 08:30 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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" So it is not actually being in the NOW, because that's really just a term without literal meaning, but having concentration towards your current affairs? But presumably this would be for your personal benefit- so would concentration or, as New Agers call it, "living in the NOW", simply be another tool of expansion? "
it is for the benefit of all because when i am in the NOW i have a sense of peace. the whole key to giving to other people and being a selfless person is being happy yourself. i recall some quote that says "all of man's problems stem from the fact that he is unable to sit in a quiet room". i find that that restlessness, that discontentment is the cause of so many of the problems in my life and the lives of others.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Deviate]
#4663993 - 09/15/05 08:21 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: " How did you develope your powers of concentration? What has changed? "
well i noticed that as soon as i would smoke marijuana i would immediately go into a trance state of mind and immediately my worries and the problems that seemed so real would fall away from me. it would be like a huge burden was lifted from my mind and underneith the huge mess there was a nice peaceful spot where i could simply observe myself and the world around me. from this state i would notice many things i normally tended to overlook and so i spent a lot of time learning to maintain awareness and to continue to do so even when i wasn't high. i studied spiritual teachings and basically just stopped the endless search for pleasure in the world and instead started looking for cotentment in my mind. i basically realized that what was making me suffer was not the problems i face in the physical world but rather the painful thoughts i associate with them and underneith those thoughts there is a peaceful awareness which is the true doer (meaning its possible to do unpleasant things like geting up out of bed in the morning without thinking any unpleasant thoughts at all).
Absolutely awesome! This is the space where unconditional acceptance and love comes from. It is embracing what is, rather than ones emotional attachments to some addictive need.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Gliders
Oh, hello!
Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 284
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Moonshoe]
#4664860 - 09/15/05 12:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yep. Great post.
A few years ago, I used to do trance readings for individuals and groups. Stopped because of personal/ moral reasons, but I still got some good info during those times. One aspect was that the high and low vibrations would increasingly separate out, just as you've mentioned here. Interesting to see it actually taking place.
A couple of months ago I had an epic dream in which I "woke up" and realized that I had been living a dual waking/ sleeping life, both of which were in slavery. I escaped, but went on a journey to find authorities who could help me go back and get the ones I'd left behind. I never figured out what made me wake up, which was the worst part. The only thing I could thing of was that a Thai woman had put spices on my eyes, and after a minute or two of blindness, I was awake and could see. After that, I began seriously researching Entheogens.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Ravus]
#4666028 - 09/15/05 04:16 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Well, the Mayans are dead; the Europeans killed them off long ago."
You better let them know. The Mayans Indians are still alive and kicking in the cities of the Yucatan in Mexico and Guatamala. Just because their ancient cities were abandoned doesn't mean that they all died.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Moonshoe]
#4666057 - 09/15/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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It?s really not that complicated, far fetched or scary. It goes something like this. Individuals across the globe, alone and on their own, are beginning to feel that something is wrong, something is missing, and something is not as it should be, in their lives and in the world.
Every generation has said this (last time was the hippies). Nothing special has ever happened. Here we go again...
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4666066 - 09/15/05 04:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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LOL
Guess they didn't get the memo!
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: "if you dont want everything u identify with to be destroyed... [Re: Veritas]
#4667426 - 09/15/05 09:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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regardless of whether or not the world is ending or beginning... regardless of whether or not change in any significant way is coming towards mankind....
we should indeed live in the now, abandon our fears, let our conditioned behaviors slip away, and find whatever sort of peace and harmony from the world that we can.
then if something happens, it will probably (by which i mean hopefully, because it's hard not to fear some sort of global event of unknown nature) be beneficial to us, but if it doesn't, we'll go on with our lives in the ways that we normally do, but in a more peaceful and less engaged and worrisome way.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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