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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Why people fail to answer relevant questions
    #4660372 - 09/14/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

For a debating forum, the tool of asking questions to crystalize or understand another's POV is one of the very few tools that we have at our disposal.

I frequently ask simple and direct questions to demonstrate that the poster doesn't fully believe in the stance they are promoting. If the question is honestly answered the poster might better understand. And what happens when they see what is unfolding? Do they respond in a forthcoming manner?

NO! They attack, change the subject, tangentialize, obsfucate; ANYTHING at all but take the time to type in a 2 or 3 letter answer.

How is learning and clarity and sharing to be achieved by such fear-based tactics? Know that when you tremble or get angry, that your belief has no substance, yet you choose to hold it dear merely because you once decided once upon a time that it was the closest to the truth.

Clinging vs. learning...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4660388 - 09/14/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well, you know Icelander's rule: just ask the same question three times and, if they fail to answer, you win your point by default.

:wink:


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
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Registered: 08/28/05
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4660470 - 09/14/05 04:31 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the tool of asking questions to crystalize or understand another's POV is one of the very few tools that we have at our disposal.





If not the most important tool.  Many fail to see the opportunity for growth presented by others' assertions/suggestions, and take the short cut by becoming defensive.  We're all guilty of this unhealthy quality, and the best we can do is strive for improvement by becoming aware of our vulnerabilities. :thumbup:


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4660551 - 09/14/05 04:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
the tool of asking questions to crystalize or understand another's POV is one of the very few tools that we have at our disposal


(emphasis added)

Quote:

Swami said:
I frequently ask simple and direct questions to demonstrate that the poster doesn't fully believe in the stance they are promoting.




Well that second part doesn't sound one bit like you want to understand anyone else's POV...more like you want them to accept your POV.

If you truly wanted to understand their POV you would do so by asking them about their POV - not by "demonstrating" that they, themseleves, dont believe their own POV. That's not understanding another person....


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4660598 - 09/14/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
For a debating forum...





Quote:

S&P forum rules said:
This forum is for the open discussion of a wide range of topics. From revelations to introspection.. discussing dreams, beliefs, ideas, experiences, interpretations. We are here to help each other grow.




Does not sound to me that this is intended to be a debate forum, though it often is.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Veritas]
    #4660612 - 09/14/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i've always attempted to answer your questions swami, yet i can recall instances where you have failed to answer my questions.

i also think people are too eager to debate here, you don't need to read every post as a challenge. i remember posting a topic with no intent/desire to debate it at all, i simply wished to present in idea for those interested in expanding on it or sharing their own experiences. next thing i knew people were trying to refute everything i said.


Edited by Deviate (09/14/05 05:00 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Veritas]
    #4660691 - 09/14/05 05:07 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Does not sound to me that this is intended to be a debate forum, though it often is.

The core of philosphy IS debate no matter how that sounds to you.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: trendal]
    #4660734 - 09/14/05 05:13 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well that second part doesn't sound one bit like you want to understand anyone else's POV...more like you want them to accept your POV.

How can an honestly answered question possibly promote an erroneous POV?


Example:

Poster: I do not believe in violence.

Swami: Hypothetical: What would you do if you caught someone who raped your wife?

Poster: I would kill the fucker!

Swami: Case closed.



What did I promote? I merely helped the poster to see his "real" POV, not his pretend POV.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Veritas]
    #4660745 - 09/14/05 05:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"Well, you know Icelander's rule: just ask the same question three times and, if they fail to answer, you win your point by default."

What?!!! I thought he didn't like competition...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4660765 - 09/14/05 05:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

A widely-held misconception.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4660793 - 09/14/05 05:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Open discussion is not necessarily debate, however.

The core of philosophy is learning.  The Western method of philosophy is debate.

Is debate also core to spirituality?  (the fluffy side of S&P :wink:) I would say that experiential experimentation is core to spirituality, but that's probably just me. :grin:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Veritas]
    #4660815 - 09/14/05 05:24 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

How does the soul stand ajar? Can we measure our degrees of ajarness?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4660836 - 09/14/05 05:28 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

In terms of the soul, "ajar" means curious, flexible, able to surrender to experience rather than clinging to the dead past or the imaginged future.

:heart:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4660857 - 09/14/05 05:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Well, you know Icelander's rule: just ask the same question three times and, if they fail to answer, you win your point by default."

What?!!! I thought he didn't like competition...




I like competition and debate. That should be obvious to all. I also like to share, love, connect, and care. They are not mutually exclusive.

But I suspect you just wanted to stir the pot Hue. :grin: By the way the kids are doing pretty well these days. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Icelander]
    #4660923 - 09/14/05 05:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Kids = contraband plants?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4660939 - 09/14/05 05:46 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well, they sure are growing like weeds!


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4660943 - 09/14/05 05:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What did I promote? I merely helped the poster to see his "real" POV, not his pretend POV.




Ahh, but you leave out the first part of your post which I quoted :wink:

You can't be trying to understand someone's POV if you're trying to disprove it - you have already made up your mind about it, haven't you?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: trendal]
    #4660979 - 09/14/05 05:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Someone ducking my question can NEVER promote an "Aha! Now I see what you are trying to convey," response from me or anyone else.

Poster: *no response*
Swami: Oh, now I get it.

Poster: You're just a skeptical know-it-all.
Swami: Oh, now I understand your point.

Poster: How about those Raiders?
Swami: Everything is clear now.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Veritas]
    #4660989 - 09/14/05 05:56 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

The Western method of philosophy is debate.

The Western method of discussing philosophy, is debate?

From dictionary.com...
Debate:
1.)To consider something; deliberate.
2.)To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3.)To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4.)Obsolete. To fight or quarrel.

1-3 is what we normally have as debates in this forum, which occurs when two individuals have differing viewpoints, who're willing to put their thoughts, notions and beliefs under the test of logic, reason and rationality. Number 4 occurs when either or the two haven't attained sufficient emotional and intellectual maturity to stay on target and leave their ego at the door.

How this is a "Western" method [implying the conclusion that debate is foriegn in other parts of the world] of discussing philosophy, doesn't compute. Care to provide some lucidity to your thoughts?



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Why people fail to answer relevant questions [Re: Swami]
    #4661022 - 09/14/05 06:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Someone ducking my question can NEVER promote an "Aha! Now I see what you are trying to convey," response from me or anyone else.

That's not what I said.

Quote:

trendal said:
You can't be trying to understand someone's POV if you're trying to disprove it - you have already made up your mind about it, haven't you?




Which is it? Are you trying to understand, or trying to disprove?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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