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InvisibleDNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 12,326
Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional
    #4659961 - 09/14/05 02:54 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Judge Declares Pledge Unconstitutional
SAN FRANCISCO - The Pledge of Allegiance was ruled unconstitutional Wednesday by a federal judge who granted legal standing to two families represented by an atheist whose previous attempt to get the pledge out of public schools was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: DNKYD]
    #4660175 - 09/14/05 03:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The Pledge was always unenthusiastically said by students anyway. I think we need to have a mandatory patriotism class where we instill a true love for America based on history and pride. Leave the god part out and everyone is happy!


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: DNKYD]
    #4660207 - 09/14/05 03:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I don't really have a problem with the ruling, the parents might be a bit uptight about the whole thing, the pledge isn't that big of a deal.

If some parents feel it is so important for their children to recite the pledge every day they can do it at home before they leave for school or take their kids out of the government schools altogether.


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InvisibleRavus
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Registered: 07/18/03
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: DNKYD]
    #4660251 - 09/14/05 03:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:

God shouldn't be included as truth in schools, which the Pledge of Allegiance assumes. It says "under God" as a fact with the rest of the patriotic talk about America.

I have no problem with talking about God as mythology in social studies or European history classes, as the Judeo-Christian beliefs are just as interesting as any Egyptian, Roman or Greek religions. But when we start assuming mythology is true and applying it as a truth, then we cross a dangerous line that can ultimately lead to discrimination of those who disagree with the mythology.

Sadly, the Supreme Court will probably reverse this ruling, especially if John Roberts becomes Chief Justice.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: DNKYD]
    #4660285 - 09/14/05 03:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I never really liked the idea of pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth, anyway.


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InvisibleDNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 12,326
Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: Silversoul]
    #4660314 - 09/14/05 03:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I second that. The pledge was a waste of time, and having "god" in it is completely unconstitutional.


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Offlinemuggzy
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Registered: 06/15/05
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: looner2]
    #4660477 - 09/14/05 04:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
The Pledge was always unenthusiastically said by students anyway. I think we need to have a mandatory patriotism class where we instill a true love for America based on history and pride. Leave the god part out and everyone is happy!





The more of our history that I hear and read, the less proud I am.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: muggzy]
    #4660852 - 09/14/05 05:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

Quote:

In 1954, after a campaign initiated by the Roman Catholic Knights of Columbus, Senator Homer Ferguson of Michigan sponsored a bill to amend the pledge to include the words under God, to distinguish the U.S. from the officially atheist Soviet Union, and to remove the appearance of flag and nation worship. The phrase "nation, under God" previously appeared in Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, and echoes the Declaration of Independence. On June 8, 1954, Congress adopted this change.




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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: Silversoul]
    #4660966 - 09/14/05 05:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
I never really liked the idea of pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth, anyway.



Agreed. Here is a great article about the pledge from the Cato Institute.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: looner2]
    #4661080 - 09/14/05 06:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
The Pledge was always unenthusiastically said by students anyway. I think we need to have a mandatory patriotism class where we instill a true love for America based on history and pride. Leave the god part out and everyone is happy!




mmmmmmmmm 1984


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: DNKYD]
    #4661084 - 09/14/05 06:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

If you cannot pledge allegiance to your country, then you should not reside in it. Plain and simple.

Consider borders meaningless and arbitrary? Go live with your brothers and sisters in Cambodia or Afghanistan.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: DNKYD]
    #4661086 - 09/14/05 06:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

No one should be forced to be a patriot.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: daimyo]
    #4661099 - 09/14/05 06:23 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

daimyo said:
If you cannot pledge allegiance to your country, then you should not reside in it. Plain and simple.




Maybe if someone is an immigrant. As for someone born in the country they reside in, they shouldn't be required to "pledge allegiance" or whatever that really means to their country. What if someone believes nationalism and borders are arbitrary? Forcing them to be patriotic in my view is unconstitutional


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,746
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: Unagipie]
    #4661144 - 09/14/05 06:34 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Unagipie said:
No one should be forced to be a patriot.



We should all be proud of where our parents decided to fuck and nest us, apparently.

"One nation invisible..." Kids in school don't even know what the hell it is or means. They just know they have to rise out of their seats and mumble while their hands are placed on their hearts.


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: bukkake]
    #4661274 - 09/14/05 07:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty much.


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: Unagipie]
    #4661337 - 09/14/05 07:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Personally, I don't find anything unconstitutional about the pledge. I don't see how they are 'Establishing' or endorsing a religion with such a benign ceremonial jesture. Acknolwedging a higher moral authority in no way violates the rights of kids. The Constitution does not grant the right to avoid references to religion in public places. And anyways nobody is forced to recite the pledge. It's not the governments job to sanitize itself from cultural references rooted in religion. Just let people be. Only a true asshole would push such a trivial issue in such a selfish and offensive way.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4661349 - 09/14/05 07:21 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Seriously.

I'm a pretty strict separist, but stufflike this seems trivial to me. They should just make it voluntary if they think its such a big deal.


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OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4661359 - 09/14/05 07:23 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

In my view freedom of religion also translates as freedom from religion


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: Unagipie]
    #4661367 - 09/14/05 07:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Unagipie said:
In my view freedom of religion also translates as freedom from religion



Feel free to find that in the constitution. So should religions not be allowed to look for new members?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Federal judge declares Pledge of Allegiance in schools unconstitutional [Re: Redstorm]
    #4661380 - 09/14/05 07:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I disagree with my usual friend Divided Sky. "One god" is this phrase and it absolutely establishes a pledge to a state religion. Some people believe in several gods, what of their thoughts? Close to 20% are atheists, which believe in no gods. What of their thoughts? How about agnostics, who aren't sure but are unwiling to sign on to the "one god" bullshit. No, it must go. It wasn't even originally there. I'll pledge allegience because it is not required, not because it is.


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