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Invisibleafoaf
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Bush steps up
    #4655039 - 09/13/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its
job right, I take responsibility"

- George Bush

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/13/katrina.impact/index.html

I guess even the President thinks that the responsibility
for the massive failure ultimately lands on his desk.

Where'd that thread go....?


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4655223 - 09/13/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That's a good step, now lets make him accountable for lying to us about WMD.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: Sycronica]
    #4655268 - 09/13/05 03:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
That's a good step, now lets make him accountable for lying to us about WMD.




Be honest.

Did you expect us to find WMD's before the invasion?

I did. Everyone did. I didn't matter what Powell said on TV. It was thought to be common knowledge across all countries and with all leaders.

Give it a rest, jeez.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4655279 - 09/13/05 03:59 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Why do you see this as an admission of "massive failure" of the federal government's disaster relief effort?



Phred


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: looner2]
    #4655353 - 09/13/05 04:19 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

Sycronica said:
That's a good step, now lets make him accountable for lying to us about WMD.




Be honest.

Did you expect us to find WMD's before the invasion?

I did. Everyone did. I didn't matter what Powell said on TV. It was thought to be common knowledge across all countries and with all leaders.

Give it a rest, jeez.



What news program were you watching/site were you reading leading up to the invasion of Iraq?


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Registered: 01/28/05
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: looner2]
    #4655390 - 09/13/05 04:28 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Be honest.

Did you expect us to find WMD's before the invasion?



No.

Quote:

I did.



What's that quote attributed (wrongly) to P.T. Barnum about one being born every minute?

Quote:

Everyone did.



Huh? Not by a long shot.


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You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
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Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineVex
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4655475 - 09/13/05 04:48 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i didn't think there were going to be any either. why?

the whole thing seemed way to shady. the proof they offered wasn't in any way concrete evidence, and they wouldn't offer any proof that was. Furthermore, they wouldn't let the UN finish their jobs. They kept trying to rush us in to iraq, and when the wmd claims didn't give them enough public approval they would make other claims about saddam. They'd switch up the reasons to go to iraq, or add new reasons over night. They were just to eager to go to war and eventually a ultimatum was offered and they rushed in there. Because of course once you're there it doesn't matter if any of the allegations are true because you're there, and you have to stay there.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: looner2]
    #4655618 - 09/13/05 05:17 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Be honest.
.
Did you expect us to find WMD's before the invasion?
.
I did. Everyone did. I didn't matter what Powell said on TV. It was thought to be common knowledge across all countries and with all leaders.




Sorry to burst your bubble but most people in the western world were not at all convinced there were WMD present and most allys of Gulf War I times completely opposed Gulf War II. Even the UN tried to stop it. What did the US do? They called "French Fries" "Liberty Fries" and dropped more bombs on iraq than were dropped on Europe in World War two on all sides.

Think of those other nations and the UN what you will, but they were aslmosdt unanymouds in their condemnation making your POV incorrect.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: Phred]
    #4655695 - 09/13/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its
job right, I take responsibility"

- George Bush

Read it.

I read it as "I take responsibility for the government's failure".

Interested to see what your point is...hoping you've got something
better to do than nitpick over the fact that I described the failure
that he is taking responsibility for as *massive* or didn't qualify
the word government with *federal*.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4655737 - 09/13/05 05:44 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Words have meaning. Learn them.

Bush is of course ultimately responsible for the extent to which federal disaster response was flawed -- he's the president. What I find interesting is why anyone would find it such a big deal that he acknowledged that fact.



Phred


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4655741 - 09/13/05 05:44 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I take it to mean just exactly what it says. There were several levels of government involved. To wit, Federal, state, city and levee commissions, which are independent. He copped only to federal responsibility. You would like to extend it to other areas where the failures actually occurred but he simply doesn't have any say so. Please list for us just what federal failures you think occurred and explain why they are Bush's and not the Congress's as well. Thank you.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4655774 - 09/13/05 05:51 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Talk is cheap and ol' Bushy knows it.

So he puts on a sad face for the TV and claims responsibility, and then returns to his privileged life as millionaire and president.

That's hardly what you and I experience if we must take responsibility for horrible job related mistakes that cost lives.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4655799 - 09/13/05 05:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The move of a good politician. Publicly admit responsibility for a bad situation, when the majority of the public believe the blame lies elsewhere.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: looner2]
    #4655807 - 09/13/05 05:58 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

Sycronica said:
That's a good step, now lets make him accountable for lying to us about WMD.




Be honest.

Did you expect us to find WMD's before the invasion?

I did. Everyone did. I didn't matter what Powell said on TV. It was thought to be common knowledge across all countries and with all leaders.

Give it a rest, jeez.




Why did you expect to find WMD? Because they told us it was there.

I don't give a rats ass what everyone "thought". Just because we all thought something that wasn't true doesn't make it excusable for those at the top to lie to us. Because ultimately "someone" knows the truth when a lie is told, and that someone is in our govt. Maybe it wasn't bush exactly, but he is the president and as with the govts failure in the hurricane "the buck stops here". He is ultimately responsible that the feds reacted slow to the hurricane and he is responsible for many thousands of innocent iraqi deaths and around 2000 US soldier's death for leading us into a war that was based on lies.

Give it a rest? Fuck that! I'll give it a rest when they take a rest on locking up innocent americans for their fake war on drugs.


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4655832 - 09/13/05 06:04 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4655906 - 09/13/05 06:19 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I take it to mean just exactly what it says. There were several levels of government involved. To wit, Federal, state, city and levee commissions, which are independent. He copped only to federal responsibility. You would like to extend it to other areas where the failures actually occurred but he simply doesn't have any say so. Please list for us just what federal failures you think occurred and explain why they are Bush's and not the Congress's as well. Thank you.




Now all we need is for Nagin and Blanco to accept blame for their respective failures.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: Phred]
    #4655953 - 09/13/05 06:28 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, I see, we are nitpicking.

here's the lawyer approved version:

I guess even the President thinks that the responsibility
for the massive FEDERAL failure ultimately lands on his
desk.

Even the president has conceded that there were failures
in the federal system...but, wait, maybe using the subjective
adjective *massive* is innappropriate?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4655978 - 09/13/05 06:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"to the extent" is also a phrase of note. I await your chronicle of the "massive" federal fuckups.


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: afoaf]
    #4656012 - 09/13/05 06:40 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

There were failures in the federal system.
Most notably, in my mind, was the fact that the Feds didn't push the city and state government into declaring a state of emergency and martial law sooner.
The feds could have been in the area days before they were had the local and state governments expedited their pleas.

The Fed's hands were tied until help was requested.
I've seen nothing but significant improvement since the Feds got involved.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Bush steps up [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4656075 - 09/13/05 06:58 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

maybe we should ask bush what he's accepting responsibility for
in an effort to generate a list of the federal fuckups.

surely he wouldn't admit failure if there weren't any, right?

or are you trying to imply that *Bush lied* and there really
weren't any federal fuckups to accept blame for; this is just
a janet reno replay...accept blame, divert attention.

I'll leave the finger pointing and assignment of guilt up to
the people responsible for the post mortem investigation of
the ordeal.



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