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OfflineTangerines
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Any connection between breaking through?
    #4647935 - 09/11/05 10:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You can break through on DMT.
You can break through on Salvia.
You can reach the 'K-hole' on ketamin.

Anyone with experience with these drugs is there something connected between them and the 'wall' that they are breaking through? I have always liked the idea of some shared consciousness and was just thinking that if it is all related there is some higher consciousness.

I dunno I think I think too much.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Tangerines]
    #4647937 - 09/11/05 10:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yes. :smile:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Tangerines]
    #4647947 - 09/11/05 10:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Your brain's being overpowered by a potent chemical in all the cases. When the brain is overpowered, it starts shitting itself, and we interpret that as "breaking through".

Notice you can't break through on the more benign drugs like marijuana, or on the poisons like alcohol (unless you consider blacking out and vomiting all over yourself breaking through) because it takes a very special type of chemical to infiltrate deep enough to make you break through at any sane dose.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Ravus]
    #4647970 - 09/11/05 11:04 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Not to discount what you posted, but you must admit we know very little about the actions of these substances and thus it seems a little premature to say the brain is "overpowered." Maybe on ketamine... but won't someone with knowledge say I'm full of shit and here's why?


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"A Bad Day for Pants"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Ravus]
    #4647977 - 09/11/05 11:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Your brain's being overpowered by a potent chemical in all the cases. When the brain is overpowered, it starts shitting itself, and we interpret that as "breaking through".




This is an interesting question. Is all the brain "overpowered" or is it just certain personality constructs that are overpowered? I think the latter.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineTangerines
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Icelander]
    #4647980 - 09/11/05 11:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have tried salvia a couple times but never actually broke through. I am in the process of extracting DMT so hopefully that takes shape soon. So hopefully soon I will have a better guess.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4647981 - 09/11/05 11:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Overpowered is the subjective interpretation of the experience. I don't use it in any negative way, and these substances are, for the most part, benign compared to other ones, but in terms of the receptors, enough have been filled so that our perceived mind is completely overtaken and we break through. You can test this by taking a smaller dose of the substance, which activates less receptors, and experience the lack of breaking through.

Though I'm not sure why there would be such a variable in experiences for some people, such as some people breaking through on the same dose they took before and didn't break through on, but so is the nature of the brain.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Ravus]
    #4647993 - 09/11/05 11:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I like the term overpowered. This has happened to me several times. It takes a large dose to do it. It seems to be my egoic personality structure that is overpowered. This has tremendous benefits in my life afterward. The breakthrough seems to be in the realm of accessing a more total experience of myself, which I can somewhat bring into my daily life there after.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Ravus]
    #4648037 - 09/11/05 11:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

First of all Icelander, I might agree with the "overiding personality constructs" bit.

Ravus, thanks for the edification. I'll admit now that I've never had the opportunity to try DMT and have never "broken through" with salvia. This is not to say I haven't had profound experiences with other psychedelics (salvia included).

I guess I'm not one to talk?


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Icelander]
    #4648079 - 09/11/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

IMO all the psychedellics operate in simmilar ways though they ramp up to effect differently and wear off differently.
the effect IMO is delayed fading of gestalts.

more effect is due to longer delay, which allows more simultaneous gestalts (dimensions/deja vu/tracers/melting etc.).

the more layering of these gestalt frames the more bizzare and chimeric or dreamlike the layered elements become.

when the layering is so thick (more than 50 for me) no more sense can be made of the resulting combinations.
some call this breaking through.
it can happen on cannibis too.

For me a gestalt fades normally within 1/15 th of a second.
On a nice salvia trip at level 4, gestalts are extended to 1 or 2 seconds, and every moment or frame is part of a bigger chrysanthemum of consciousness.

On a breakthrough (which is a much rougher time for associative thought, and so ego fails) frames are extended to 3 or 4 seconds, and one has to relax and flow at the headpoint of all the wakes which are continuing in all directions simultaneously from the on-going unfoldment of creation.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4648088 - 09/11/05 11:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

" Your brain's being overpowered by a potent chemical in all the cases. When the brain is overpowered, it starts shitting itself, and we interpret that as "breaking through".

Notice you can't break through on the more benign drugs like marijuana, or on the poisons like alcohol (unless you consider blacking out and vomiting all over yourself breaking through) because it takes a very special type of chemical to infiltrate deep enough to make you break through at any sane dose.
"


ive broken through on marijuana, i didnt think it was possible either but it is.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Deviate]
    #4648130 - 09/11/05 11:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I've always thought that no matter how high you got on marijuana, it would never compare to a DMT or salvia break-through, and my experiences with all three of these drugs (and others I've broken through on) confirmed this. I've gotten really high and never actually reached a point to where I'd say I "broke through", so that was from my experiences with it alone.

What was it like if you have "broken through on marijuana"? Did you have ego loss, or loss of time and space, or what? I'm rather interested as to what being that stoned would be like.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4648186 - 09/12/05 12:06 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

and one has to relax and flow at the headpoint of all the wakes which are continuing in all directions simultaneously from the on-going unfoldment of creation.




This is one of the ways psychedelics benefit the personality and spirit. If you can learn to surrender before the egoic meltdown, relax and flow, then this will translate to the same ability in stressful day to day living. Less and less can freak you out. Life gets easier and more fun.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: Icelander]
    #4648203 - 09/12/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

yup


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4648251 - 09/12/05 12:20 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Holy, I just smoked salvia extract. I didn;t break through(???always wondered what this meant), but I typed something while under it that you can read in the pub under my "pretend" post. Delayed gestalts! I've always thought it as having a book fanned in front of your face. The pages drop with such purpose! You want to examine whats in the shadows! But everything (the moment) keeps dropping away and dropping away and dropping away...


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4648277 - 09/12/05 12:25 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

pages are a great metaphor for frames or gestalts or flattenned universes


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4648307 - 09/12/05 12:30 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I guess I'm ignorant here, but does it always have such a hurried rythm? Just smoked some more and it seems that the pace is very quick, the rythm, very hurried. Just me?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4648338 - 09/12/05 12:36 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Not just you. Things are always in quick motion there. That's why many don't like it. That does not happen when I am having a divinitory experience on salvia though. Everything happens in a normal flow. For me at least.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4648340 - 09/12/05 12:36 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Salvia always seems hurried and chaotic to me. Breaking through on other substances is very different, especially dissociatives. Dissociatives make everything into one great space-time plane for me, an apocalypse of life and my identity. Sometimes, breaking through seems to pass by infinitely slow, like it's going to last forever.

The weirdest breaking through periods for me are post-dissociative when I look in a mirror and suddenly realize I'm this weird hairless ape with this individual name and an entire personality, and I ask myself, "Where the hell did this person come from?"


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Any connection between breaking through? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4648345 - 09/12/05 12:37 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

the whole effect is over quick 3-8 minutes depending on how you smoke.

each frame element is naturally only 1/15th of a second.
and that is how fast stuff keeps on happenning

stay with that, and watch the lingering ones spread out as they fade more slowly but keep arising quickly

trying to make any thing last longer or be more meaningful is like waterskiing accross the wakes, a choppy business


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