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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Gypsum, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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Offlinemongees
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Registered: 09/02/05
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Important questions regarding grains...
    #4634056 - 09/08/05 04:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Hey, first post to the board even though I've read hundreds of post. My questions are regarding Rye vs. WBS. I've read many posts regarding which one was best but was wondering if someone could post some informative information regarding the subject. I would prefer posts from users who have tried both with positive results to eliminate any biasness.
1. which one has faster colonization times?
2. are there any major differences between the two, enough to effect the yield of 48cc spores inocced into quart jars and cased?
3. is millet preferred over WBS, if so, is it prepared the same way I've seen in the teks for WBS.

I have heard rye doesn't stick together as much but holds moisture more evenly and that contams are equally likely in both.

I ordered 12cc syringes of the following; creepers, Cambodian, Ecuador, and z strain. If anyone knows any time tested strategies for growing these strains it would greatly be appreciated.

Finally I would like to say that this site has been the #1 resource when needing information regarding my grows and plan to have a log posted w/ pics.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: mongees]
    #4634094 - 09/08/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I've used both extensively, along with several other grains. I never had a problem with either, and never noticed a difference. There are some experienced growers who say that rye yields better, I won't argue with them directly, although I do wonder why I never noticed it. Perhaps it's because most of my experience was using grains as spawn rather than casing them directly, but I certainly cased many a grain. In my opinion you won't be disappointed either way, and maximum yield debates are still open.

Rye can be sticky, I'm not sure where you read it's not. It all depends on moisture content. If you are casing the grain directly (not using as spawn to a bulk sub) then you will want it at a higher moisture content than is acceptable for spawn. I recomend a knife tip of gypsum be added to each quart jar to reduce sticking.

I don't prefer millet over WBS simply because it's more expensive. That being said, I do prefer millet heavy WBS mixe, many of which are mostly millet. I always prepared straight millet just like WBS however.

Along the same lines, I decided I liked red winter wheat over rye simiply because it was cheaper as well.

the strains you list are all standard cubensis strains and none need special stragegies.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinemongees
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: mycofile]
    #4635005 - 09/08/05 08:17 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

thanks myco. cost isn't an issue but now I am wondering another thing. Whats the difference between substrate prepared for spawn and substrate prepared for casing? and another thing cost really isn't an issue so if you have any other reccomendations they'll greatly be appreciated. thanks again.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: mongees]
    #4635266 - 09/08/05 09:27 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

There aren't necessarily any differences between grains used for spawn and grains used for substrates. There are some nuances that may be helpful and may not be.
1. Moisture content. Since the substtrate is a major source of water, even for cased substrates, it is desirable to have a lot of moisture. Moisture content should be limited by container size though, with quarts being no more than about 50% (maybe as much as 60%) moisture, then sliding up to large spawn bags which shouldn't be more than about 38-40% moisture. But all in all, if using grain as substrate, the more moisture content the higher the maximum yield potential.

This doesn't apply to spawn. As long as the grain is moist enough to colonize, it's fine. The substrate and casing layer will compensate for the moisture lacking in the spawn.

2. Characteristics of the grain itself. Grain size and shape don't really matter much when using grain as substrate. When using grain as spawn however, the smaller sized grains work better because they provide more inoculation points per unit of volume. In other words a quart of millet may provide 5+ times as many individual grains (and thus inoculation points) as a quart of popcorn. The more inoculation points the faster the spawn run.

But all in all, all grain can be used either way, it's just another thing to keep in mind....


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinemongees
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: mycofile]
    #4635416 - 09/08/05 10:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

o.k. myco. i guess im asking the wrong questions because im kinda confused. whats the difference between spawn and substrate. it sounds as if you are saying they are seperate things. I thought spawn came from colonized substrate and could be used in either cased or bulk grows.


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InvisibleTien
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: mongees]
    #4635446 - 09/08/05 10:10 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Grain used is spawn is mixed with poo after its colonized,
Grain used as substrate is not spawned with poo and cased by itself.


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Offlinemongees
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: Tien]
    #4635454 - 09/08/05 10:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

don't some casings use poo though?


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: mongees]
    #4635876 - 09/09/05 12:03 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Casing simply refers to putting a non-nutritious soil like mix on top of your substrate. Substrate can be pf cakes, grains, poo, straw, compost, whatever. So just talking about "casings" doesn't mean anything other than it is some sort of substrate with a casing mix laid over it.

Substrate is just something that gets fruited either cased or uncased.

Spawn is something that is used to get something else colonized. Either more spawn, or a substrate.

Spawn by definition can't be fruited, that would make it substrate instead of spawn.

Get it?


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offline_OttO_
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: mycofile]
    #4636899 - 09/09/05 05:26 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't spawn just a term used to describe the transferring or mixing colonised substrate into un-colonised substrate? (i.e. 'spawning') And if you plan on doing this then you can obviously refer to you colonised substrate AS 'spawn'...?


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Offline_OttO_
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: _OttO_]
    #4636901 - 09/09/05 05:27 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry Myco, I re-read your post and that is basically exactly what you said.... lol :thumbup:


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: _OttO_]
    #4637156 - 09/09/05 10:18 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, but you're right, spawn can be a verb as well.  Spawning, to spawn, I'm gonna spawn your ass next time if you don't read the glossary etc.
:wink:
while we're on it, lots of people use the word case as a verb to.  "I'm going to case my straw tomorrow" etc.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Important questions regarding grains... [Re: mycofile]
    #4637346 - 09/09/05 12:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Id suggest a mix of 75% rye, 25% WBS, if using the grain as substrate, and reverse the ratios if using grain as spawn. I also like adding in verm. Check out my grain link for everything I do there. Best water content for colonization and fruiting can be acheived through a mix of grains IMO.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Gypsum, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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