Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Alex213]
    #4638089 - 09/09/05 01:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
But might a little government spending on infrastructure have prevented a lot of the problems?




I have no problem with the state gov't of LA to spend their money on the infrastructure.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Alex213]
    #4638362 - 09/09/05 03:02 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
But might a little government spending on infrastructure have prevented a lot of the problems?



I do not know. I don't know if the proposed levee enhancements would have made them capable of handling a category 4 or if they were to just compensate for the sinking. New Orleans is built on silt and continues to sink, hence levees have to be periodically raised just to maintain the same level of protection. A hurricane will bring a storm surge (I think 20 - 25 feet is not out of the question for a category 4) because of the low pressure causing the ocean to rise up in the center. Couple the storm surge with massive wind driven waves and the levees would still be inadequate if power is lost to the pumps. It's really a stupid place to make your home or establish a business given the geography and weather patterns.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4638412 - 09/09/05 03:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Holland, which is below sea level, has a TRIPLE levee system in case one or two are breached.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (09/09/05 03:56 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Swami]
    #4638436 - 09/09/05 03:17 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think it keeps sinking like New Orleans... and the Dutch are smarter than the people running New Orleans.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4638693 - 09/09/05 04:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

And I thought strong weed made you stoo-pid...  :stoned:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Alex213]
    #4638705 - 09/09/05 04:16 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
But might a little government spending on infrastructure have prevented a lot of the problems?



Oh Alpo, yet another subject you know little about.


But overall, the Bush administration's funding requests for the key New Orleans flood-control projects for the past five years were slightly higher than the Clinton administration's for its past five years. Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, the chief of the Corps, has said that in any event, more money would not have prevented the drowning of the city, since its levees were designed to protect against a Category 3 storm, and the levees that failed were already completed projects. Strock has also said that the marsh-restoration project would not have done much to diminish Katrina's storm surge, which passed east of the coastal wetlands.

Link

Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that breach was particularly surprising because it occurred "along a section that was just upgraded."

"It did not have an earthen levee," Penland told the newspaper. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."

Link


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #4638734 - 09/09/05 04:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

sounds to me like some teamsters have some explaining to do...


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Swami]
    #4638824 - 09/09/05 04:46 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Holland, which is below sea level, has a TRIPLE levee system in case one or two are breached.




Does Holland get hurricanes?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4638880 - 09/09/05 04:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know if the north sea gets hurricanes
but it can be a pretty rough place.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4638907 - 09/09/05 05:12 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

No hurricane susceptability = triple reinforced levees

High hurricane susceptability = single poorly-engineered dirt levee


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Swami]
    #4639094 - 09/09/05 05:55 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
No hurricane susceptability = triple reinforced levees

High hurricane susceptability = single poorly-engineered dirt levee




Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that breach was particularly surprising because it occurred "along a section that was just upgraded."

"It did not have an earthen levee," Penland told the newspaper. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineVex
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 1,284
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #4639329 - 09/09/05 07:04 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Bush appointed a moron with no qualifications to run the federal emergency management agency.  :rolleyes: It kind of makes you wonder about all the rest of his appointees.

i am dumbfounded at bush's desicions sometimes.

anyways, FEMA should bear the brunt of the blame as far as the aftermath. local and state officials should bear the brunt of the blame for the evacuations failures and the "preparations" and Bush should share the blame in this failure because he failed to be a leader when we really needed one....plus he appointed that moron.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Vex]
    #4639971 - 09/09/05 10:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vex said:
Bush appointed a moron with no qualifications to run the federal emergency management agency.  :rolleyes: It kind of makes you wonder about all the rest of his appointees.




I was actually surprised that Bush appointed such a lightweight.  I personally think his best quality is attracting top talent.  Say what you want about Dick Cheney, Condoliza Rice, Colin Powell etc.  Many people don't like them, but they are capable thinkers.  You want to play poker with Dick Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld? 

People hate Bush appointee and cabinet members because of ideology, not because they are incompetent.  A guy like Ashcroft wasn't hated for being an idiot.  It is actually the reverse.  They knew he wasn't an idiot and they were scared shitless of what he could accomplish. 

That is what makes me scratch my head about this FEMA guy.  He padded his resume, and his resume wasn't even impressive after the padding.  If I was going to lie on my resume, I would do it with style and fucking flair baby.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4640043 - 09/09/05 10:57 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
A guy like Ashcroft wasn't hated for being an idiot. It is actually the reverse. They knew he wasn't an idiot and they were scared shitless of what he could accomplish.



Bad example, very bad example. Ashcroft is an idiot and a loon. Condoliza Rice, very intelligent but I don't see any spark of creativity - no divergent thinking. Colin Powell was probably the most capable person in Bush's administration but he's too inculcated with following orders and being a mouthpiece even when he knows it's wrong, why didn't they listen to him on foreign policy and military matters?


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4640224 - 09/09/05 11:37 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Quote:

JesusChrist said:
A guy like Ashcroft wasn't hated for being an idiot. It is actually the reverse. They knew he wasn't an idiot and they were scared shitless of what he could accomplish.




Bad example, very bad example. Ashcroft is an idiot and a loon.





John Ashcroft grew up a Minister's son. No wealth or family connections. He went to public schools in Springfield, Missouri and finished at the top of his class. That got him into Yale University, where he graduated with honors. He received his law degree from the University of Chicago. Those are two of the most exclusive institutions in the country. At one time he was a law professor at Southwest Missouri State University.

We have different definitions of "idiot".

Quote:

"He began his career of public service in 1973 as Missouri Auditor and was later elected to two terms as the state's Attorney General. His ability to work with leaders of both political parties prompted his colleagues in the non-partisan National Association of Attorneys General to choose him as Chairman.

Ashcroft was elected Governor of Missouri in 1984 and held that post until 1993. During his tenure, he balanced eight consecutive budgets and served as Chairman of the Education Commission of the States. Fortune magazine rated him one of the top ten education governors in the country, while Financial World and City and State magazines credited him with making Missouri one of the best financially managed states in the country. He also spearheaded the state's efforts to reduce the use of illegal drugs. In 1991, the non-partisan National Governors Association elected him Chairman."




Now I am no fan of the war on drugs, and John Ashcroft's views are not my own. But I think you seriously underestimate the measure of this man.

After that he went on to become a United States Senator, and then eventually the Attorney General of the United States. This was a man that excelled at every step of his career. He isn't an idiot at all. To the contrary, people feared him because he was quite capable. What they feared was his ideology. You may hate him, you may despise him, but you are fucked in the head if you think in any way that he is an idiot.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4640279 - 09/09/05 11:50 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

6 entries found for idiot.
id?i?ot Audio pronunciation of "idiot" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-t)
n.

1. A foolish or stupid person.




Quote:

3 entries found for foolish.
fool?ish Audio pronunciation of "foolish" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (flsh)
adj.

1. Lacking or exhibiting a lack of good sense or judgment; silly: foolish remarks.
2. Resulting from stupidity or misinformation; unwise: a foolish decision.
3. Arousing laughter; absurd or ridiculous: a foolish grin.
4. Immoderate or stubborn; unreasonable: foolish pride; foolish love.
5. Embarrassed; abashed: I feel foolish telling you this.
6. Insignificant; trivial: spent all their money on foolish little knickknacks.




His war on drugs in based in misinformation. So for that he's an idiot.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: newuser1492]
    #4640322 - 09/09/05 11:59 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Don't go semantical mind-fuck on me my friend. John Ashcroft is wrong about the war on drugs (IN MY AND YOUR OPINION), but he is not an idiot by any rational measurable standard.

And my point in the original post is that one of George Bush's biggest strengths is that he appoints capable men. The reason that people don't like them is because of their ideology. I think that the case of John Ashcroft is an excellent example of this.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4640495 - 09/10/05 12:46 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, returning to this thread after a little vacation I propose a little logical analysis. Now, the main argument I hear so far is that Bush's nomination is the cause of poor management at FEMA and FEMA deserves most of the blame.

With a scientific experiment to prove a hypothesis you must be able to repeat the experiment with the same results; so if Bush and FEMA are the problem we should expect that other major hurricanes this year would have similar management problems. However, this was not the case with Hurricane Charlie in Florida and the 5 other hurricanes. Esp. with the damage done by Charlie we should have seen a similar debacle, but we did not. Therefore we must conclude that OTHER more situational and local factors must have made a difference in this case, and thus it seems unfair to lay the burden of blame on Bush and the federal government alone.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Swami]
    #4641084 - 09/10/05 07:18 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

No hurricane susceptability = triple reinforced levees

High hurricane susceptability = single poorly-engineered dirt levee




Damn government "interference"... :smirk:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Why is the New Orleans Crisis Bush's Fault ? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4641227 - 09/10/05 08:48 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

You're right that people shouldn't be holding FEMA primarily responsible. It's the resident's fault for not leaving when a hurricane was coming. It's the state's fault for building that dumbshit underwater city next to the Gulf. And I think the federal government assumed some responsibility when they decided to pour money into the state. And as someone pointed out earlier the Army Corp of Engineer has as one of their mission statements the upkeep of levies. The blame for the problems after the storm falls on a lot of people and it most certainly isn't a specific parties fault, rather it is the entire system of government interference. The idea that pouring more money into any situation will make it better is ridiculous and fallacious.

But comparing this to Charlie is ridiculous. Charlie was powerful but small. The eye of the storm was around 5mi compared to much larger eye for Katrina. And most importantly Charlie's path didn't take it over a giant depressed accident waiting to happen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Bush says (Arafat) encourages terror. Ellis Dee 724 3 06/25/02 10:38 AM
by hongomon
* Berg's father blames Bush and Rumsfeld Johan Shultz 855 11 05/14/04 03:17 PM
by phi1618
* Ex-aide: "Bush doing terrible job"
( 1 2 3 all )
Xlea321 3,945 47 03/25/04 04:10 PM
by phi1618
* Lets get it on: Bush and SS reform.
( 1 2 all )
Catalysis 3,373 24 02/04/05 05:52 AM
by zappaisgod
* How Bush Misleads Others EchoVortex 821 5 07/31/03 03:52 PM
by infidelGOD
* Key Lawmakers Cast Doubt on Social Security 'Crisis' RandalFlagg 623 1 01/23/05 10:44 PM
by SWEDEN
* How Bush Misleads Himself silversoul7 798 9 07/31/03 10:16 AM
by st0nedphucker
* Libertarians: What do you think of Bush now?
( 1 2 all )
Silversoul 3,214 28 02/19/05 04:30 PM
by offmyrocker

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
5,098 topic views. 1 members, 8 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 15 queries.