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OfflineLearyfan
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Rage against Bush
    #4624274 - 09/06/05 03:03 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

The Kanye West thread in The Pub was locked, but I should respond to MagicalMystery's question to me from it...


Quote:

MagicalMystery said:

We all know of the Platonic "reflection of a reflection" concept. So let me ask you this, if you are working towards enlightenment, how can you be wearing the "Bush is wrong" glasses and using that template for everything? Thats not an objective, clear, emotion-free look, thats grasping for straws. It's sad, really, in an intellectual sense.





The reason you think that we blame Bush for "everything" is because we don't make threads for everything he does right. I also say "Bush" when I mean "The Bush administration". When I say "Bush is responsible for thousands of deaths", I actually mean "The Bush administration is responsible for thousands of deaths".

The reason that I can express my disdain for Bush and still search for enlightenment it's my belief that the only way to enlightenment is the release the grip that the powers that be have on our minds. In order to release the grip, we need to take down almost every greedy career politician currently in office and replace them with politicians from third parties who have the interests of the people in mind. To me, Bush is a symbol of everything that is wrong with the system. I am passionate about wanting to see that symbol tarnished.









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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Learyfan]
    #4624332 - 09/06/05 03:25 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)



--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineVex
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Learyfan]
    #4624394 - 09/06/05 03:54 AM (12 years, 18 days ago)

explaining yourself through logic will get you nowhere with a bush supporter. Have you learned nothing in these past few years?


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Vex]
    #4625668 - 09/06/05 03:08 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Vex said:
explaining yourself through logic will get you nowhere with a bush supporter. Have you learned nothing in these past few years?




That could possibly be one of the most accurate statements ever made.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


Edited by Sycronica (09/06/05 03:08 PM)


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OfflineSherman901
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Sycronica]
    #4625688 - 09/06/05 03:11 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

I'm not a Bush supporter, but I just recently read this on some other forums and found it interesting and it made a few things clear.

Wheres the blame for Ray Nagin and Blanco? Blanco has to call in the National Guard by declaring a state of emergency, believe it or not, Bush cannot do that. Well, technically he could, but Blanco is REFUSING to let the feds take control of the Guard. Nagin ditched the State's plan for emergency evacuations by leaving buses that could have gotten these people out BEFORE the storm hit to be ruined by flood waters (http://maps.google.com/maps?&ll=29.999,-90...=0.004,0.01&t=e, http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.954,-90....0406,0.0101&t=e and


Why? because they didnt have crappers! I dont know about you people, but thats what rest stops are for, you get those people out of there anyway you can and Nagin, instead of doing that, skipped town and just recently came back. Had the buses ran, they could have evacuated 22,000 people, 60 to each bus, PER TRIP. Jabbar Gibson took manners into his own hands, and stole a school bus that managed to survive the flood unscathed, evacuating about 70 people, heck he got to the Astrodome before any other bus did. However, Gibson may facing criminal charges for stealing the bus. Jabbar Gibson is no criminal, the real criminals in this case is Nagin for leaving thousands of people to die by not running these buses before the storm hit and Blanco for letting him get away with it.
Not only that, but New Orleans' government is one of the most corrupt in the nation, Nagin is the least corrupt mayor they have had in years, however, the levee board built a CASINO with money that should have been used to improve the levees that broke. A casino. WHY THE HELL DOES A LEVEE BOARD NEED A FREAKING CASINO? ( http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:cuvo6...rd+casino&hl=en )

Thirdly, these people blaming Bush have skipped some pretty well uncovered stories, namely the one where he plead Blanco (while the Director of the NHC plead with Nagin to do the same a day earlier- What was Nagin's excuse? It was against state law to order an mandatory evacuation during night hours. The biggest storm in years is aiming right at you, you have 48 hours notice, and you dont order an mandatory evacuation -WTF?) to order a mandatory evacuation 24 hours before the storm hit. Not only that, but he ordered aid 48 HOURS before the storm git. And those complaining why the aid wasnt already there, the storm would have destroyed it. Why wasnt it there immediatly after the storm hit?
A. Until the levees broke almost a day later, it looked like areas such as Biloxi needed the aid much more than New Orleans did.
B. Many of the major roads were impassible; some bridges looked like toppled donomos of concrete, in fact there was a huge casino parked right in the middle of US 90 east of New Orleans.

Does Bush deserve some of the blame for not taking control once it was clear that Nagin and Blanco were both inept in handling this mess? Certainly. However, you cannot say that Bush "barely lifted a finger" to help these people, it looks to me like he did more than Blanco or Nagin did. Of course, this is the same man who was critised for reacting too FAST to Hurricane Charley last year. Some people just cant be pleased it seems. Also, refusing foreign aid? Take a look at this:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid.reut/
Bush did originally refuse foreign aid, which IS a stupid move, but the position has changed and foreign aid from countries such as Russia is now being accepted: http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/09/02/russaid.shtml.
Oh and one more thing:
QUOTE
He publicly claims that he can fight this seemingly endless war in Iraq and still have enough troops to respond the crises at home, yet it took an entire week before process began.

According to James Robbins of National Review Online and the American Foreign Policy Council, we only have 10% of the US Army in Iraq; 74% are in the United States. I think we have enough troops here to handle these kind of things.
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robb...00509020719.asp


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Strangers passing in the street by chance two seperate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me.


Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young 2006


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Learyfan]
    #4625698 - 09/06/05 03:15 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

how shocking, an opinionated thread that actually contains
content gets locked in the PUB!

who'd have thought!

on another note...

I ain't saying he's a dumb nigga, but Kanye clearly ain't
a bright nigga.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Sherman901]
    #4625732 - 09/06/05 03:25 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Probably the best post concerning the hurricane that I've seen yet.

:thumbup:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Redstorm]
    #4625832 - 09/06/05 04:03 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Probably the best post concerning the hurricane that I've seen yet.

:thumbup:




I concur, but WHERE'S THE LOGIC?  (Except for mine, of course :wink:)

Quote:


Vex said:
explaining yourself through logic will get you nowhere with a bush supporter. Have you learned nothing in these past few years?




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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4625838 - 09/06/05 04:05 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

I think (or at least hope) by the time the dust settles on this whole mess, people will realize how much more this is the state and locality's fault than anyone else's.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Redstorm]
    #4625885 - 09/06/05 04:14 PM (12 years, 18 days ago)

Some will and some will continue to marginalize themselves by blaming Bush for everything, every time.


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OfflineAnisotropic
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Learyfan]
    #4627108 - 09/06/05 10:04 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

You've got to at least give the guy some respect for going off his teleprompter. I mean there are leaders of 1st world nations that are too scared to do that.


Edited by Anisotropic (09/06/05 10:04 PM)


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Anisotropic]
    #4627136 - 09/06/05 10:07 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

I definitely think it's cool.






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Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Learyfan]
    #4627330 - 09/06/05 10:34 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Just to also clarify to Magical Mystery, since the thread was locked, I was not so much defending Kanye West, but rather targetting the manner in which he was criticized. Contrary to what some people seemed to think in the thread, I did disagree with the manner he articulated himself. While I commend his courage, I also think it was more on the side of reactionary than a well-thought out argument.


Again, I was pointing out that the term "lynching" is very crude when used towards a black person speaking on racial terms, as well as viewing Kanye as a "typical ignorant black man on TV" rather than simply an ignorant person.


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Learyfan]
    #4627548 - 09/06/05 11:12 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

When you are looking at someone as a "symbol of everything wrong with the system", do you admit that the possibility of your prejudice against him can cause you to see everything as his fault? Like the guy who has a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Or as a hippie libbie said "A pickpocket looks at a saint and sees only pockets."


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"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4627760 - 09/06/05 11:55 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

But I'm not hitting everything. I just criticize Bush more than you do and you think I blame him for everything. The difference between you and me is that you give him the benifit of the doubt and I do not.







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Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Learyfan]
    #4628044 - 09/07/05 12:52 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

So you are so enlightened that you see everything the way it is? Your hatred of Bush is grounded only in reality and objectivism, and everyone else is blinded by emotion?


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4628096 - 09/07/05 01:06 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Bush IS wrong. Wrong on fiscal matters, wrong on increasing debt, wrong on his 'faith based initiative', wrong on an increasingly intrusive bureaucratic state, wrong on The Patriot Act, wrong on an interventionist enemy making foreign policy, wrong on refusing to use the veto, wrong on continuing the drug war, wrong on not enacting spending cuts to offset tax cuts, and wrong for not letting me roll with his daughters when my wife is out of town. Just so you don't confuse me with being a liberal, Clinton was an asshole too, his wife is worthy of target practice and Janet 'The Butcher of Waco' Reno should be drawn and quartered while being raped by twenty midgets in Robert B. Reich masks.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4628130 - 09/07/05 01:11 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

hey man, i'd keep that quiet, i hear bush will put you in a concentration camp fer saying shit like that


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4628263 - 09/07/05 01:46 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

MagicalMystery said:
So you are so enlightened that you see everything the way it is? Your hatred of Bush is grounded only in reality and objectivism, and everyone else is blinded by emotion?




I didn't say or imply that I'm enlightened, but obviously I believe that my opinion is correct or else I'd have another one, right? Who believes that their opinion is wrong?







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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Rage against Bush [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4628307 - 09/07/05 01:57 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Yeah, where you getting all this "enlightenment" bizness from?


At?


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