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Offlinenuk1m
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Why does this happen?
    #4623100 - 09/05/05 06:00 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I always use the PF Tek for my jars. This time I did all the correct dosages, was very clean, and pretty much did everything by the book. After finishing the jars I didnt look at them for two weeks. .When I did look at them they looked real good, it seemed allmost as much as 25% on some of the cakes were colonized, thats fast to me for two weeks at least. Well it's been about 3 weeks since then and they seemed to have slowed down a hell of a lot, almost to a halt. Maybe 40% done on some. Why does this happen?

I keep the jars in 80 degrees F in a shoebox under my bed.


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InvisibleInnominate
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4623121 - 09/05/05 06:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe they need some air..
I'm not really sure :frown:
Could be you packed the jars too tight?


Edited by Innominate (09/05/05 06:13 PM)


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InvisibleADoobie
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: Innominate]
    #4623189 - 09/05/05 06:34 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Possibilities, assuming the following:

Water content is correct
Recipe is balanced

then

*Jars packed too tight
*Inconsistent temperatures (you might find that in the middle of the night they are falling to low 70's?)
*Bad syringe (viable spores with hidden contaminates...although not visible, some contaminations halt the growth of myc)
*Introduction of contaminations during inoculation
*Jars just are slow lazy mothers and don't want to grow


I am sure there are many more reasons why they could be doing what they are doing. If there are no visible signs of contamination, just leave 'em alone and let them to their work. Since they are %40+ colonized, then you might try to give it a shaking. If the jars aren't too wet, then some gentle shaking should make it crumble and fall apart a bit. Mix it up. If there are contaminations, they will most likely show after that. If things are fine, the then myc should slowly recover. It is also possible that it will jump right back and be done in a week. The key here is to do whatever you are going to do, then leave them alone. Remember how shy myc is - this is no exception.

Spores can take up to two weeks to germinate. Usually by week three you see some healthy growth. Sometimes things can take up to six weeks to fully colonize, but that is usually the case with more exotic species on grains. In any event, all is not lost bud. Just let em grow. If they do, great. If they don't - try try and try again. I have been at it for a year and really haven't been met with much fruit. On the other hand, I have learned enough that one day things just started growing faster than I could handle. Never expected it.

Chin up


--------------------
ADoobie said:
I know what strikes me as odd about this. It is totally unnatural. The whole idea is just totally backwards.

So are historians going to look back at 'The Great Cake Eaters'? Damn. That was a backwards step in the evolutionary process. We left Shroomheads in the dust. Welcome to the new age of Vermheads.

VvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVv

I ONLY STUDY legal, edible mushrooms and mycology. Any mention of any other kind of mushroom is purely fictional, and pictures are ripped from the internet. I do not grow mushrooms!


Edited by ADoobie (09/05/05 06:36 PM)


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Offlinecobainkal
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4623214 - 09/05/05 06:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nuk1m said:
...and pretty much did everything by the book.




PF tek is a very specific recipe as it pertains to moisture. both too little and too much water will have a drastic effect on colonization times. also, if there is tape over the four inoculation holes, co2 can build up and slow colonization. if this is the case, remove the tape, and colonization should speed up.

lastly, not to keep beating this drum, but if you have a pressure cooker, moving up to grains is not that difficult, and it'll leave five-week colonizations in the dust.


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4623240 - 09/05/05 06:50 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

do you have tape on your jars or anything that can keep the jars from getting air?


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Offlinenuk1m
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: lemon_lw]
    #4624267 - 09/06/05 03:01 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

do you have tape on your jars or anything that can keep the jars from getting air?



There are no tape over the holes

Quote:

lastly, not to keep beating this drum, but if you have a pressure cooker, moving up to grains is not that difficult, and it'll leave five-week colonizations in the dust.




Noted, I was gonna change my subsrate, what do you recommend? Like birdseeds? I was gonna first try and master the PF jars before moving up.

Quote:

Jars packed too tight




No, I know very much how important it is to pack it lightly.

thanks for all the replys.


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Edited by nuk1m (09/06/05 03:02 AM)


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InvisibleLand_Crab
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4624413 - 09/06/05 04:03 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Looks like you've gotten some good answers so far, so I'll just throw a few things out there:

- The substrate ratio is correct? (two parts vermiculite, 1 part brown rice flour, approx. 1 part water?)

- Any possibility that you over-cooked your jars during sterilization?

- Have you been using spring water, or tap water? Paul Stamets (the father of mushroom cultivation) stresses the importance of using spring water. A lot of people use tap water, and that's usually fine, but sometimes tap water can carry minerals, heavy metals, or chemicals that affect growth. I used to use tap water, and my results seemed fine. But I like to make sure the mycelium feels nice and comfortable, so I always use spring water now.


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Offlinenuk1m
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: Land_Crab]
    #4626659 - 09/06/05 08:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I use tap water unfortunatly, should I just grab a couple water bottles instead?

How can you tell if the jars are overcooked? I see no change in color and nothing looks burnt : \

How can you tell if there is not enough water or too much?


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Edited by nuk1m (09/06/05 08:08 PM)


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OfflineBoringNickName
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4626680 - 09/06/05 08:12 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Flip the jars


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Offlinespaceman
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: BoringNickName]
    #4626844 - 09/06/05 08:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I like wild bird seed myself...colonizes a lot quicker than cakes. I'm trying three difernt strains on rye berries now. One of them got green mold so I threw it out and the others look extremely dry. I have had little failure with bird seed though. An incubation chamber Gave me much faster col times too. Just something to think about.


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InvisibleLand_Crab
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4628489 - 09/07/05 02:43 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

nuk-

If you can, I would use spring water. Almost everyone will tell you that you don't need to do that, and almost everyone will be right, but I would use spring water just to eliminate a potential variable, if nothing else. It's easy to do, and your mycelium will thank you for it.

Yea, you don't have to worry about over-cooked substrate from what you described. (I probably shouldn't even have mentioned it, since it is almost never an issue if you just follow the instructions. But FYI, you would tell from the color change, and the substrate would be rubbery and dense to the touch. It's not something to worry about.)

Without a picture, it's difficult to describe what the "right" amount of water in the substrate looks like. If you have any water at all swishing around, pooling, or forming a layer, then that is too wet. The PF substrate should be moist, but light and airy (fluffy, if you will)--meaning not dense. There should be many little nooks and crannies for the mycelium to have fun in.

Also, there's nothing funky about your brown rice flour, right? (e.g. age) and your vermiculite is standard..?

You should probably bite the bullet and open up a jar (in another room, of course) to see what is or isn't happening.

It would be helpful if you were able to post some pics.


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Offlinenuk1m
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: Land_Crab]
    #4631258 - 09/07/05 08:23 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I flipped the jars about a week ago, didnt see any change :frown:

Can someone plz link me to a good jar TEK thats not PF


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OfflineShroomArtist84
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4631515 - 09/07/05 09:15 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i dont know what to say, everything thats been so far in this forum has been exact bro. i always use the tek and im on good on strains longer on others, in my opinion if its good and sterile....its prolly just the strain. patience is the key is growing.


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Offlinenuk1m
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: ShroomArtist84]
    #4632014 - 09/07/05 11:23 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Land Crab

thanks for the response. Does exposing the jars to light slow it down? Should I rarely look at them?

I use orangic brown rice flour I got at a health store. What brand do you guys usually get? Next time i'll get whatever is known to work well just to be sure.

I just got access to a good digi cam so pics will be comin real soon.


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Offlinenuk1m
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4636613 - 09/09/05 02:50 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Here are some pics I just took. Hope you can get an idea of how the substrate is. I'm still stumped as to why they stopped growing, my only guess is they ran outta moisture. When I shake the jars lightly the substrate moves around in the jar and at the top, it's as if it lost a lot of moisture, at the beginning nothing would move in the jar when I shook it.

But I still dont know, any ideas please???





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InvisibleADoobie
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4636652 - 09/09/05 03:01 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

ahh shit bro give them fuckers a good shaking and stop looking at them. Yah light slows it down. Handling them does worse. Now shaking them up and leaving them? That will be best :smile:


--------------------
ADoobie said:
I know what strikes me as odd about this. It is totally unnatural. The whole idea is just totally backwards.

So are historians going to look back at 'The Great Cake Eaters'? Damn. That was a backwards step in the evolutionary process. We left Shroomheads in the dust. Welcome to the new age of Vermheads.

VvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVv

I ONLY STUDY legal, edible mushrooms and mycology. Any mention of any other kind of mushroom is purely fictional, and pictures are ripped from the internet. I do not grow mushrooms!


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: ADoobie]
    #4637228 - 09/09/05 11:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Light absolutely does not slow down pf jars!

I think they are too dry from what you describe. Perhaps your formula was off, you ran out of steam while cooking them, or they just dried out in the 2 weeks before you got to them? I can't tell for sure, but does the mycelium along the edge of growth look a little whispy to you in places? That is a classic symptom of dry substrate.

You could just let them sit and see what happens. Try marking where the mycelium with a dry erase marker or something and see if they are making any progress at all. If they are, just let them keep going and then give them a good dunk at birth.

If they really are completely stalled you have two options:
1. inject some sterile water
2. in a very clean environment, open them up, dump them into a ziplock, add a little sterile water, and mix everything up.

Personally I would go with #2. Use the flatcake tek as guidance. I would prolly do it something like this.
1. Create a sterille work environment (your choice, glove box, sanitized room, etc, just NO AIRFLOW unless it's from a flow hood)
2. Add a few cc's of sterile water to a ziplock bag (quart size) exact amount up to you to decide
3. Use rubbing alcohol to sanitize the jars. Wipe the whole jar with alcy, then remove the band while carefully holding the dome in place. Wipe the threads and lid down with alcy.
4. When the alcy is dried, quickly open the ziplock, dump the cake in and seal.
5. Break the colonized portions up and mix them with the uncolonized portions. and mixing the water that was in the bag throughout
6. Do not incubate higher than 79 degrees (incubation at this point would favor contams like bacteria and yeast over the mycelium as it will take the mycelium a day or so to recover from this trauma).

If you want cake shaped cakes, just put the bag back inside the empty jar.

or something like that. That's assuming I'm right and they are too dry. But if they really aren't growing, it's your best bet to salvage them.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinenuk1m
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: mycofile]
    #4648169 - 09/12/05 12:03 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I always add a dry layer of vem on the top, does anything think that this stuff absorbs too much of the moisture in the jar? could this be why my jars seem to dry out?

mycoflie I just did exactly what you wrote, Ill let you know how it turns out in a couple of days.


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Invisiblebackupwards
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: nuk1m]
    #4649265 - 09/12/05 07:47 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

it appears to me that jars 2 and 3 may have a contam or i am just seeing things. jar 2 left side near the top and down the right side. jar 3 right in the middle of the uncolonized area, the darkening/black area.

they also don't appear to be to dry, you should have waited them out a little longer. myc will not colonize areas sometimes for a reason: contams.

again maybe its the pics or my eyes but i think there is something else going on in the jars.

best of luck
:peace:


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Offlinenuk1m
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Re: Why does this happen? [Re: backupwards]
    #4650346 - 09/12/05 03:19 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

^ I suppose it's possible. My eyes aren't yet trained very well at spotting contams. This disapoints me if they are contams since I was the cleanest ive ever been when making the jars.


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Laminar Flow Hood, Paul Stamets, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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