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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Katrina, compassion & aid
    #4622955 - 09/05/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because I am an American?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because of its scope?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because of its suddeness?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because people are homeless and hungry?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 20,160
Loc: The Hand
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Swami]
    #4622960 - 09/05/05 04:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

You need more beer.  :smile:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Swami]
    #4622993 - 09/05/05 05:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because I am an American?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because of its scope?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because of its suddeness?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because people are homeless and hungry?




if you can


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4623004 - 09/05/05 05:13 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

You need more beer.

My fridge is empty and society owes me something.

*Swami loots convenience store*


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
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Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Swami]
    #4623381 - 09/05/05 07:26 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm wondering what kind of beer the Universe has Swami drinking all the way to his spare tire?

What is it, Swami? What is your choicest of choices of beer? Shed some light on yet another Great Mystery!

-=Suspense Music=-




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
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Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4623423 - 09/05/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Heineken.

*the plot thickens*


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Swami]
    #4623445 - 09/05/05 07:39 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because I am an American?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because of its scope?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because of its suddeness?

Am I supposed to feel/do something about Katrina because people are homeless and hungry?




This kind of thing happens all the time all over the world. If you didn't have the miracle of modern communication you would never even know it happened.

What are you doing at home, with your friends, with the man you meet?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4623510 - 09/05/05 07:55 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What is your choicest of choices of beer?

Fat Tire is the choicest for a full-bodied beer.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Icelander]
    #4623516 - 09/05/05 07:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly.

Why does the "world" not step in for single homeless man nor for the millions in the Sudan? Because it is an effect of nature and not man-made like in Rwanda?

Our compassion seems to be saved up for "special" occassions.

What about those of us not fortunate enough to make it to Burning Man?  :wink:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Swami]
    #4623613 - 09/05/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Exactly.

Why does the "world" not step in for single homeless man nor for the millions in the Sudan? Because it is an effect of nature and not man-made like in Rwanda?

Our compassion seems to be saved up for "special" occassions.



Charity is not going to solve the problem of poverty. To do so requires certain radical political reforms, as proscribed by Henry George in Progress and Poverty. Sudden disasters like this are another matter. These are people who have suddenly been displaced from their homes and lost everything. They are not part of an on-going self-perpetuating cycle like most people in poverty, but are a finite group of people who can get their lives back together with the right amount of help from others who care about their plight.


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Silversoul]
    #4623813 - 09/05/05 09:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly paradigm. When you give to starving Somalians, you keep them a live a couple days longer to breed more starving Somalians and many of us are tired of the sort of charity and well fare that just keep allowing the impoverished to go on being impoverished.

4 million people and a 90,000 square mile area were effected by this disaster and most of them were working average Americans.

Consider some things that take effect on this scale,

many families within the same area and if the whole area was devastated, they have NO family to go stay with.

Many of the homes in Mississippi area were reduced to splinters and rumble. That means, these people got out with the cloths on their backs. have not even a tooth brush.

With power out, they can't even use an ATM machine. Perhaps their local banks were totaled too and they will have problems getting cash out even when they get to an ATM for a while.

Their cars were totaled.

Getting insurance checks to replace these losses can take weeks to months in a disaster this size.

These people have to secure a new residence in these conditions outside of their home town and hundreds of thousands of them just lost there jobs and income. It's not like if you worked retail here, you can apply at another store down the street.

There is no down the street anymore for many of these towns. They are totaled.

Take a 60 year old woman who was an only child, parents deceased, and as far as family goes, is aware of some cousins she has in Canada she never spoke with. Doesn't even have her address book anymore with a possible number they can be reached at if she wanted to call them for help. The book was "blown away".

She doesn't have local friends to turn too because they are in the same shit situation she is.

These are the people who are also being helped to get back on their feet. This is short term help for those who know how to help themselves with it as well.

I'm saying anyone has to give spit or a care if they are not moved too.

I was just giving some consideration of what makes this different then donating to starving Ethiopians.

Millions who had been taking care of themselves and being constructive responsible citizens are fucked for the short term.

I can support within my own reasoning helping them out.

How easy is it even going to be for them to find new jobs with hundreds of thousands of them all temporarily out of work, looking for work all at the same time now?

I'd rather send in what I can then see these people resort to crime to take care of themselves and families because they simply were made desparate by this disaster if temporary help isn't there.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4624102 - 09/05/05 10:59 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

All that you say is fine and true, but I think many are missing my philosophical direction.

These folks are no more related to me than other disaster victims around the world, but because we both fall under some arbitrary political / land definition of "America", I should somehow feel more connected to them.

As a single volunteer in the flood area one can only affect a few people's lives. That same effort could be put towards the homeless in one's local area with equal affect. One's actions are not multiplied because of scale.

To me it is like driving down a semi-deserted road and there is a simultaneous car accident with one victim on one side of the road and a train wreck on the other side with hundreds of victims. Most of us would flock to the train wreck, yet be able to do no more than for the lone car accident survivor.

There is the "Oh-My-God" curiosity factor intermingled with the desire to help.

And to those who feel compelled to help after the hurricane that rarely do otherwise, why did you wait for such a disaster to get motivated? Aren't there always people in need nearby?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (09/06/05 02:57 AM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Swami]
    #4624133 - 09/05/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
These folks are no more related to me than other disater victims around the world, but because we both fall under some arbitrary political/and definition of "America", I should somehow feel more connected to them.



I don't really see that. There was as much support among Americans for the victims of the Tsunami in southeast Asia as there is for this crisis.

Quote:

As a single volunteer in the flood area one can only affect a few people's lives. That same effort could be put towards the homeless in one's local area with equal affect. One's actions are not multiplied because of scale.



I wouldn't be too sure about that. Many homeless people are unable to find and/or keep a job, and will end up right back on the streets in a short matter of time. The flood victims are mostly people who had an income and a place to stay prior to losing everything they had in the flood, and will be able to get back on their feet once they recieve the proper assistance.

Quote:

And to those who feel compelled to help after the hurricane that rarely do otherwise, why did you wait for such a disaster to get motivated? Aren't there always people in need nearby?



There are many who do give to the needy on a regular basis. Those that don't generally don't think about it much because they either don't see it or are too desensitized to notice. But mainly, I think it's about results. Poverty is a perpetual problem. It has existed since the dawn of civilization. No matter how much they give or how many poor children they sponsor, charity is not going to end the problem of poverty. The flood victims, on the other hand, can be helped. People donate their money because they know it is going to make a difference.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Swami]
    #4624846 - 09/06/05 10:33 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What about those of us not fortunate enough to make it to Burning Man?




--------------------

You have my deepest sympathies.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Katrina, compassion & aid [Re: Swami]
    #4625101 - 09/06/05 12:28 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with you swami that people who never found a reason to give of themselves before have no NEW reason to give now because the philosophical concept of need is the same and you either recognize "IT" in others or you don't. If there are people who were inspired to start giving for the first time as a result of Katrina, believe me, something about recognizing "IT" feels good and they will make it a new habit from here on.

That "something" people recognize or they don't is the "IT" from your other post swami. The "IT" is everywhere, everyone and you in it and it in you. Being able to "see" it as yourself is the issue. Recognizing that others are hurting desperately from this is a part of recognizing the IT. It can happen in good times too.

If this catastrophe helped people for the first time in their lives to recognize the "IT" and start giving, thats a good thing, not something to feel bad about because you didn't see it before. You see it now and once you do, you will more easily again.

Once the levee, "resistance walls" that separate me from you  break, the lake water flow in and equalize the levels with all the places that were once below them.


Besides that, most people giving now, gave before this.
Instead of waiting for the purple hearts truck to come next month, I bagged old clothes and shoes now and dropped it off at the church up the road. They were collecting all week and took a truck out there on Sunday.

I typically give cash to children's charities. I sent a check to the Red Cross last Tuesday because, I saw all of the *additional children who are in need of it now so I added to what I usually give.
Scale and proportion is relevant to givers.

If you typically are a giver, you find it easy to give more NOW to this situation because of how MANY more were ADDED to the needy NOW list. 

When the need grows deeper, givers, dig more deeply to give.

The giving that goes on , on a regular basis, isn't publicized as much because of "scale" issues.

Fund raisers are on the tele all of the time. People regularly give all of the time. Because of the media attention  Katrina is getting, the fund raisers for it are standing out more.

In your last reply to me, you said "what I said before was all well and good but........"

Why throw the "but" in? Why not leave it at, Thats all "well and good". Thats the idea, making well and good of what you can when you can or become inspired too.  If everyone continually keeps adding to the well and good, pretty soon, we will just have a constant flow of the well and good into the il and bad and more of the well and good in the world.

I hope more levees keep breaking in people as a result of the NO levee break. :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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