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InvisibleAlex213
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The end of "small government" dogma?
    #4622258 - 09/05/05 01:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Americans have had to face another painful truth. Their government has proved itself incompetent. Yes, it could act quickly once it had decided to act - but it idled for days. This disastrous performance will surely saddle the remainder of George Bush's presidency, just as the botched Desert One rescue of American hostages from the besieged US embassy in Tehran hobbled that of Jimmy Carter. Americans expect competence from their leader as a minimum requirement. And if an image of a crashed helicopter in the Iranian desert could undo one president, surely pictures of an American city reduced to a Somali or Bangladeshi kind of chaos spell disaster for this one.

But the shock may well do more than shift perceptions of the current administration. For 25 years, the dominant US ideology has been to shrink the state. "Government is not the solution to our problem," declared Ronald Reagan. "Government is the problem."

That defined the limits for state activism thereafter. After decades of energetic government programmes, from Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal in the 1930s to Lyndon Johnson's Great Society in the 1960s, the state was compelled to retreat. Taxes would go down and the government would do less.

Mr Bush personifies that ideology with more vigour than anyone since Reagan. Yet now, after Katrina, the national mood might alter. Americans have seen where small government leads. The authorities in Louisiana, including the military, pleaded long ago with Washington to reinforce the levees that were designed to save New Orleans from a great flood. The Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105m (?57m): the White House gave them $40m.

It is conceivable that Americans will now call a halt to their quarter-century experiment in limited government - and the neglected infrastructure that has entailed. There are some tasks, they may conclude, which neither individuals nor private companies can do alone - and evacuating tens of thousands of people from a drowning city is one of them.

Yesterday the New York Times' resident conservative columnist David Brooks wondered if there could now be a "progressive resurgence". There is a precedent. After an earlier Louisiana disaster, the floods of 1927, there was public outrage that not a single federal dollar had gone to feed or shelter the victims: the army had even demanded reimbursement from the Red Cross for the use of its tents. From now on, the public resolved, the federal government would have to protect the vulnerable. That shift paved the way for the activism of FDR and all that followed. Nearly 80 years on, history might be about to repeat itself.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1562732,00.html


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Alex213]
    #4622368 - 09/05/05 02:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I agree 100%. I don't think we'll ever be going back to "small gov't" unfortunately.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Alex213]
    #4622433 - 09/05/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
For 25 years, the dominant US ideology has been to shrink the state. "Government is not the solution to our problem," declared Ronald Reagan. "Government is the problem."

That defined the limits for state activism thereafter. After decades of energetic government programmes, from Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal in the 1930s to Lyndon Johnson's Great Society in the 1960s, the state was compelled to retreat. Taxes would go down and the government would do less.

Mr Bush personifies that ideology with more vigour than anyone since Reagan.

Yet now, after Katrina, the national mood might alter. Americans have seen where small government leads.

It is conceivable that Americans will now call a halt to their quarter-century experiment in limited government - and the neglected infrastructure that has entailed.





I am rolling my eyes furiously now.

What a joke of an article.  This person has no clue what they are talking about.  President Bush has increased government spending and bureaucracy.  The government hasn't gotten smaller, it has gotten bigger.  For example, Bush got the Medicare prescription drug bill passed (old people get their medications paid for by the government now). 

The Department of Homeland Security is a massive organization that was created by Bush.  It is well-funded and is in charge of many things.  If anything stopped the various federal agencies from responding, it was that the federal government was such a behemoth that it couldn't respond in time.  All of the tools and the funding were there that were needed to respond to the hurricane.  It's just that the people in charge didn't get the wheels moving fast enough.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/991867.asp?0cv=CA00&cp1=1

Government grows past Bush?s cap

Discretionary spending jumps 12.5 percent last year

By Jonathan Weisman
THE WASHINGTON POST


Nov. 12 ? Confounding President Bush?s pledges to rein in government growth, federal discretionary spending expanded by 12.5 percent in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, capping a two-year bulge that saw the government grow by more than 27 percent, according to preliminary spending figures from congressional budget panels.


So...a one minute Google search showed that the Guardian article was complete bullshit.  How can the Guardian publish something that is so blatantly false?

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Yesterday the New York Times' resident conservative columnist David Brooks wondered if there could now be a "progressive resurgence". 




God, I hope not!  :lol:


Edited by RandalFlagg (09/05/05 08:14 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Alex213]
    #4622632 - 09/05/05 03:31 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

People were sitting around for days with their dicks in their hands waiting for paperwork.

That is a symptom of bloated overgrown government with mixed up priorities. This shit happened because people are too dependent on their government to begin with.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4622929 - 09/05/05 04:46 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
People were sitting around for days with their dicks in their hands waiting for paperwork.

That is a symptom of bloated overgrown government with mixed up priorities. This shit happened because people are too dependent on their government to begin with.




Some people. Some people just want to be left alone to manage their own affairs. Preferably in small groups. These are called conservatives and libertarians. This does not include liberals. The people of New Orleans got fucked because they got their governor and mayor through an affirmative action program. Yep, we're cool cause we have an incompetent black man and an incompetent woman in charge. Both of them have fucked up 100% of their responsibilities. Bush? Only kneejerk moonbats think he has fucked everything he's done up. Me? I got him ahead of Clinton, Reagan, Johnson and of course Carter. Kennedy fucked up alot but got killed before he could really get blamed and Nixon's biggest victim was himself. Bush's father got hoisted on the Reagan/Perot petard. Too bad. He was the best of them all since probably Truman.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4623133 - 09/05/05 06:16 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Some people feel that way until something really fucked up happens to them.


Then they feel like somebody ought to help them.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4623159 - 09/05/05 06:26 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

And some people feel that way all the time


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Alex213]
    #4623228 - 09/05/05 06:45 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Bush personifies that ideology with more vigour than anyone since Reagan.



:dielaughing: :rofl2: :lolz0rz: :rofl: :rotfl:


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Alex213]
    #4626727 - 09/06/05 08:18 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Boy that's a stupid article. The federal government is larger than it's ever been, spends more than it ever has, has more debt than ever, has more employees than ever, has more laws than ever.

If Bush is such a champion of small government, can you please list the spending bills that Bush has vetoed as president, can you also please list any other bills that Bush has vetoed as president.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
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Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4626816 - 09/06/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Boy that's a stupid article. The federal government is larger than it's ever been, spends more than it ever has, has more debt than ever, has more employees than ever, has more laws than ever.





Exactly. Is the Guardian a major paper (I seem to remember that it is)? How can a major paper print such blatantly false information and sentiments? What the writer is asserting is completely untrue and a small amount of investigation would have shown that. Do people actually believe or respect this paper? Do the reporters and commentators there not care about the truth?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4626854 - 09/06/05 08:41 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

In partisan papers, it seems that often times there is little research or fact-checking done to make sure things are correct.

When Clinton was president, many conservative papers would run various articles on him which were rumors caught by the reporters. As long as what they write furthers their cause, they don't really care. The same can be said about both liberal and conservative papers.


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Offlinetheindianrepublic
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Redstorm]
    #19314060 - 12/23/13 12:48 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quitting is not the solution. If we observe America and other countries which are having their own governance then we can say that every country has seen so many phases which are quite tough to face but they did..If government is failing to achieve there target then defiantly its really an awful moment for them but I don't think for being successful governance of any party have to quite. They must try to work accordingly and gather the civilians full support!.......World News


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: theindianrepublic]
    #19319921 - 12/24/13 09:16 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Pick a puppet and stick with it. Some posts read like they were written well, others sound like a google translate stream of consciousness. They both suck, but stick with one.


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Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between.

pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold.

AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: The end of "small government" dogma? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #19320662 - 12/24/13 01:27 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Boy that's a stupid article.  The federal government is larger than it's ever been, spends more than it ever has, has more debt than ever, has more employees than ever, has more laws than ever.

If Bush is such a champion of small government, can you please list the spending bills that Bush has vetoed as president, can you also please list any other bills that Bush has vetoed as president.




1) That IS is a stupid article, the government is bigger than its ever been.

2) Bush and the 'Contract with America Congress' (at least until Newt got the boot) proved that the Republican party had no more fiscal discipline than the Democrats.  Bush 2 finally showed his true 'Progressive RINO' face in his last 2 years when passed basically every spending bill the democratic congress proposed.

3) Sometime in recent history at least some people have come to think that cutting government is 'bad'  I.E. listen to Nancy Pelosi or Obama saying 'the Republicans want to cut government' like its a bad thing.

Here is my opinion on what's needed:

A) The government needs a haircut--period.  at least 10 to 20 percent across the board initially with more to follow.

  i) the military should get whacked.  A US military at 60% of the current level could still crush any army on earth, given the technology edge.  Besides we shouldn't be thinking about getting into any big wars anymore--no one is that stupid, certainly not the Chinese or the Russians.  The threat is not "A country with a thousand nukes" the threat is a terrorist group with one nuke.

  2) Chop the Czars and useless departments.  If it hasn't had any record of production its function should be reverted to the states.  One glaring example is the department of education--despite the billions spent and the huge beaurocracy, US students test scores are lower than ever.

    3) Consolidation of functions and organizations.  This was supposed ot happen under the 'Homeland Security' function.  Has anyone considered why the US thinks it needs more and more different types of law enforcement and departments?  Can the DEA, cut ATF to a shell.  These are functions that overall need to be run by states.  What is needed is border control, an agency to investigate true interstate crime.

There should be things like the EPA and Department of Energy--not to make rules and oppose companies but to do research and work with industry to find safe and clean solutions to things. 

This will never happen.  As soon as anyones pet project comes under the knife listen to the squealing begin.  Hell, the 'sequester' cut a tiny bit of spending increase and politicians screamed bloody murder.

Congress needs to be gutted.  Except for a questionable handful of congressmen, they are all corrupted by the power of Washington.  I don't care if whoever gets elected goes by what label, as long as they actually CUT what is needed.  And there are term limits--they are called 'elections'

It will never happen.  The People are addicted to Free Stuff in one form or the other.


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