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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
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Re: Existence [Re: Phred]
    #4621544 - 09/05/05 01:49 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Improper question. Presumes existence has a purpose. Existence exists. There need by no "why" about it.




I don't presume existence has any purpose; purpose is derived from things already existing. I simply ask why anything is here at all.

Perhaps the "Why" anything exists should be unified with the "How" anything exists, but in my mind they are one in the same; when dealing with the very base characteristic of existence, all the questions reflect the same basic incomprehensibility.

Quote:

See the laws of physics.




The laws of physics are laws created from objects in existence. They do not explain how these objects exist, simply what they do after they are already here.

Quote:


Self evident. A pebble exists. Nothingness doesn't.




Nothingness exists only as a contrast to existence in the human mind, but in my subjective viewpoint it's impossible to comprehend. You zoom in on nothingness (pure nothingness, not quantum vaccuums) and find only more nothingness; you zoom in closer and find only more nothingness. This is almost as mind-boggling as anything existing in the first place.

So Phred, how do you explain causality? If everything has a cause and effect, then tracing all the causes and effects back, do you find an original cause? What was there before all of this around us existed? Was it nothingness? If so, where did existence come from? That's really the million dollar question here; you say I assume a purpose, but that's not really what the discussion's about. I only desire to know something about existence, not the aftereffects of it.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4621799 - 09/05/05 06:52 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I remember The Cow mentioning "possibility".





Perhaps possibility is Nothingness, the Fertile Nothingness from which everything is possible.

Therefore, because existance was a possibility, it HAD to happen..

Murphy's Law, of course! "Everything that can go wrong, will go wrong."

This would fit the multiple-universe theory. For every situation in which there are two or more outcomes, each and every outcome HAS to happen, because it is a possibility, which stems from No-thing that is the mother of Every-thing - the two sides to the Coin of Existence.
And spin the quarter on a table, you have an illusion of a sphere.
"Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstien

Interestingly, similar to the spinning coin alternating between the two sides of No-thing and Every-thing which gives rise to the illusion of the sphere-of-existence... All that is in existence in this universe is a pulsating energy field, as Physicists will tell you.

Something to think about... Well, I'm tired and about to fall asleep on my vibrating bed. Mmm...pulsating pillow.
G'night folks.




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Registered: 03/14/05
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Re: Existence [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4624717 - 09/06/05 07:05 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

This is not an attempt to explain the universe or to create new theory, but to simply share my view in this subject.

If something really exists it must be at an absolute level. Certainly it would not be absolute if it were partial. Creation and all its infinite definite expressions are nothing but the true manifesting nature of the Absolute Spirit as the Holy Ghost or Holy Mother.

Is the universe not expressed in us? Is it not logical to assume that as the universe is our source, the only source of the manifested is that that can ever be manifested? So if we are an expression of the cosmos and the cosmos is the manifesting expression of the unmanifested, then there is one and only true Absolute Source. Looking for a cause we can differentiate from the Absolute is like looking for the difference between me, myself and I. Can we set apart the cause from the Absolute without contradicting ourselves?

Life from the human perspective is what is manifesting and nothingness what is not.
Can the present ever be anything else than that which waits us in the future?that which is still unmanifested? God is everything that has been, everything that is and everything that will be (unmanifested) as One. God is beyond time & space, beyond creation and beyond this very thought. I think that when some are referring to nothingness they actually mean the unmanifested Absolute Spirit.


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"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Existence [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4625690 - 09/06/05 01:12 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Life from the human perspective is what is manifesting and nothingness what is not.




So if you don't see the moon, it's not there? Of course, this an interesting question; most people just shrug it off and say, "That's ridiculous!" but if you ask them how they know something that they cannot perceive, they simply shrug. Human logic is the best leader, but it fails; we cannot assume anything as absolute.

One can logically conclude that the moon is still there if we can't see it, but if reality only existed in our human perception, what would that do for existence?

Let's say we assume a solipsistic view on existence, and say reality only exists within the human mind (not the brain; the brain only exists in the mind, according to solipsism). That means everything exists within us, but where do we exist? Can nothingness hallucinate an entire universe? Where is the mind based? Solipsism fails in this regard, because the mind only exists within the mind, and that thought also only exists in the mind, until the entire case is absurd. So even in solipsism, there must be some external base to which the mind is based (the brain according to science), but does this catch apply to all of reality? Perhaps everything existing is absurd.

I speak these words because I'm already here. We observe physics and mathematics and science because they're already here, the products of existence. But what is at the base of all this? It can't simply be vibrating strings or quantum particles, because they too require existence and, according to human logic, cannot exist in and of themselves. Existence as a property cannot exist as a particle that requires itself to exist for existence to be a property, if that makes any sense.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 230
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4626180 - 09/06/05 03:57 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Of course the moon is still there... I would say the projection exists in the human mind. Duality is to projection what unity is to reality.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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