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InvisibleRavus
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Existence
    #4618275 - 09/04/05 02:07 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

In my opinion, this question of existence is the greatest question to anyone, whether you're a strict scientist, a solipsist or a devout Christian. This question seems to transcend God, the universe or really anything.

Why does anything exist? How can anything exist? What is the difference between something existing and not existing? What is nothingness? Can nothingness even exist?

I've never actually seen any philosophy or religion address these questions to the most remote area of my satisfaction. So I ask you: Can you create any potential philosophy or idea that addresses these questions? It doesn't matter how crazy or unsupported it is; I'm just wondering if it's possible, and if so, what the possibilities would look like, as science and religion don't seem to have stumbled upon them.

God is often used as a common explanation, but he doesn't seem to be; if God exists, how is his existence different from the existence of the universe? All the same questions apply to the higher powers.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4618288 - 09/04/05 02:13 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I said this in another post, but possibility is where existence came from. Nothingingness existed, the possibility of something existed, and thus it was created. Then after that possibility still existed, and is a big part of our modern day science and life. Of course it can be argued where did the notion of possibility come from, but if nothingness existed, then opposite is something. But if nothingess never existed, then we always had something, so either way I think possibility can explain it.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Existence [Re: TheCow]
    #4618292 - 09/04/05 02:16 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Where is the existence of a possibility though? In nothingness? The possibility itself must exist somewhere, so where does the possibility come from?

Quantum mechanics is a potential explanation, but that would lead to the same questioning.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4618299 - 09/04/05 02:18 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well possibility doesnt necessarily exist, but if nothingness existed at some point, then I think that theres no more chance of nothingess then something, so both possibilities existed, nothingness was first, and then our possibility arose.


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4618313 - 09/04/05 02:25 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

ever since mescaline i have simplified the question to

what is is?


Edited by faslimy (09/04/05 02:26 AM)


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4618368 - 09/04/05 02:44 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"The most amazing mystery is that anything is even happening at all."

:thumbup:



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4618749 - 09/04/05 07:36 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, as you see from my other post on another thread, existence crosses strongly the 'meaning' itself, especially the 'meaning of life'.
All that is left, is the question behind the meaning behind existence itself. All our spiritual design is build to support that meaning somehow.
Inbetween, we find our own meanings of our personal existence...and THAT...could be the meaning in overall !
The meaning of existance is to support meaning itself !


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflinePmog
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4618957 - 09/04/05 11:44 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

stuff is not necessarily a ting, hence, existing stuff.. may be nothing.. :wink:


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Life! = !Life

Life = birthing
Life = dying

!life = death <-> birth = life!
--------------------
:frown: !LIVE! :smile:
--------------------


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OfflinePmog
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Re: Existence [Re: Pmog]
    #4618962 - 09/04/05 11:45 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

""What is the difference between something existing and not existing?""

that IS the difference.. existing vs. not existing.. :P


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Life! = !Life

Life = birthing
Life = dying

!life = death <-> birth = life!
--------------------
:frown: !LIVE! :smile:
--------------------


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Existence [Re: Pmog]
    #4619313 - 09/04/05 02:12 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Indeed, but where does the difference come from, and why is it there?

At first, I thought this was simply a problem of causality, as many people simplify it to. They say, every effect has a cause, so if you go back far enough, what was the original cause and where did it come from?

With our recent studies into String Theory, M-Theory and Matrix Theory, this question may become less revelant; if there are 11 dimensions, then our view of time on the macroscopic scale may be entirely inaccurate. After all, causality is just asking: What is time?

But even if time was vastly different from our current view of it, the problem of existence persists. Even if everything around us is eternal, why is it there in the first place?

Even if there is an eternal, timeless God, why is he there?

Even if there was nothingness, why does nothingness exist? Nothingness doesn't exist, you could say, but there shouldn't be anything in my point of view; no time, no space, no nothingness.

These are the most troubling questions I've ever encountered, but we know the final result; we exist in some form. This reality may be an illusion, but there is still some sort of existence, so we just have to bridge the gap.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4619408 - 09/04/05 02:45 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

:shrug:


--------------------
PsyPost - Psychedelic Research


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4620167 - 09/04/05 08:28 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
In my opinion, this question of existence is the greatest question to anyone, whether you're a strict scientist, a solipsist or a devout Christian. This question seems to transcend God, the universe or really anything.

Why does anything exist? How can anything exist? What is the difference between something existing and not existing? What is nothingness? Can nothingness even exist?

I've never actually seen any philosophy or religion address these questions to the most remote area of my satisfaction. So I ask you: Can you create any potential philosophy or idea that addresses these questions? It doesn't matter how crazy or unsupported it is; I'm just wondering if it's possible, and if so, what the possibilities would look like, as science and religion don't seem to have stumbled upon them.

God is often used as a common explanation, but he doesn't seem to be; if God exists, how is his existence different from the existence of the universe? All the same questions apply to the higher powers.




You can't get there from here! :mushroom2: :eyeball:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Existence [Re: Icelander]
    #4620318 - 09/04/05 09:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Please excuse the topic interuption Ravus. Um Ice, we are expecting a full report on burning man. When's it coming? Did anyone there know about Katrina? Start a new post if you will when you get a chance please and welcome back!

Now we retrun you to your regularly schedule program on evolution.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4620680 - 09/04/05 10:35 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Ravus writes:

Quote:

Why does anything exist?




Improper question. Presumes existence has a purpose. Existence exists. There need by no "why" about it.

Quote:

How can anything exist?




See the laws of physics.

Quote:

What is the difference between something existing and not existing?




Self evident. A pebble exists. Nothingness doesn't.

Quote:

What is nothingness?




A region in which there are no existants. For example, a cubic centimeter of perfect vacuum.

Quote:

Can nothingness even exist?




Sure. To the best of our current knowledge, though, in the universe we can observe such patches of nothingness are very small. Even intergalactic space is not a perfect vacuum.



Phred


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Existence [Re: Ravus]
    #4621042 - 09/05/05 12:30 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Even if there was nothingness, why does nothingness exist? Nothingness doesn't exist, you could say, but there shouldn't be anything in my point of view; no time, no space, no nothingness.




See my previous posts. You are talking about nothingness as if it is something. This is contrary to what nothingness is, nothingness is just that, nothingness.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Existence [Re: Phred]
    #4621055 - 09/05/05 12:33 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Existence exists. There need by no "why" about it.




I can't believe that you are posting in the Spirituality and Philosophy forum. It's like you're cheating on us PA&L'ers.

I am very interested in how you came to be concerned only with existence and its easily identifiable characteristics. Why are you not at all concerned about the origin of Man or purpose? Why do you view these things as being unimportant?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Existence [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4621068 - 09/05/05 12:36 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I thought ravus mostly posted here. Geez ravus, you get around these forums like a slut huh? :lol:

I know, you are sharing the wealth of the yourself!:thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Existence [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4621127 - 09/05/05 12:57 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

RandalFlagg writes:

Quote:

I can't believe that you are posting in the Spirituality and Philosophy forum. It's like you're cheating on us PA&L'ers.




My first love is philosophy. Even in the PA&L forum I am more concerned with political philosophy than with political party machinations. I have posted many times to S&P (notably in threads discussing the question of volition), but for very long stretches of time in this forum little if any philosophy ever gets discussed so I have fallen out of the habit of checking it regularly. Lately it seems there are more philosophical (as opposed to crop circles and aliens) topics open. So here I am. Don't know how long I'll stay.

Quote:

I am very interested in how you came to be concerned only with existence and its easily identifiable characteristics. Why are you not at all concerned about the origin of Man or purpose?




Because the origin of man is unknowable. Why spin my wheels over it? As for "purpose", I know my purpose. It is to further my existence.

Quote:

Why do you view these things as being unimportant?




They are not necessarily unimportant, but they are clearly less important than correctly apprehending reality and planning how best to remain in it (reality) for as long as I can. I need not know whether water was created by a superior being long ago or was created through completely impersonal processes (burning hydrogen) to recognize that without it I will soon die.



Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Existence [Re: Phred]
    #4621160 - 09/05/05 01:09 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Randalflagg said:
I am very interested in how you came to be concerned only with existence and its easily identifiable characteristics. Why are you not at all concerned about the origin of Man or purpose?




Because the origin of man is unknowable. Why spin my wheels over it?





You and I agree that the origin of Man is unknowable, but we seem to disagree on the fundamental importance of that question.  This dilemma doesn't bother you and because of that you are a lucky bastard.  I wish I had your uncaring attitude, but the question and its answer bother the hell out of me.


Quote:

Phred said:
As for "purpose", I know my purpose. It is to further my existence.





:lol:  How did I know you would say that?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: Existence [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4621458 - 09/05/05 02:54 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Opps, I thought randal replied to ravus. Sorry ravus.  :blush:

To much time on the computer. I'm going to bed.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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