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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: afoaf]
    #4615885 - 09/03/05 11:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
Quote:

QuantumMeltdown said:
Hell I didn't like slick willy but I didn't disrespect him like you guys do Bush. I looked at President Clinton as that the President. But don't forget Bush hasn't yet used the military to murder hundreds of American citizens like Clinton did in Waco.




I'm pretty sure that blind adherence to the word of the president
is the LAST thing that would ever be called patriotism in america.

Secondly, you don't seem to have ANY grasp of what actually
happened at Waco, so it's probably smarter for you to just
not try to wield those falsehoods in an argument. You'll just
wind up looking silly and without credibility.




Do you mind enlightening me on what happened at Waco? I would like to hear your take on it.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: blu3]
    #4615894 - 09/03/05 11:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Well Blu your right the Blam game is a waste of time. There are people suffering and politics can wait.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4615926 - 09/03/05 12:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

ATF targeted the branch davidians for trumped up weapons charges.

Koresh offered to allow agents to come in and view the weapons
up close to verify that they were all legal and unmodified.

ATF was up for new budget in the coming months.

Instead of peacefully sorting it out, they instead chose to use
the compound in waco as an example of their great power and
to justify more budget for more raids using media savvy.

The night before they attacked the Branch Davidian compound,
they (ATF) actually reached out to the local news media to
let them know that something big was going to go down the
next day out there.

The Branch Davidians (I believe) were even called and warned.

When the ATF arrived, with truckloads of men in assault gear
carrying weapons, many of which lacking ANY semblance of
assault training they began to fire, almost immediately at the
building. No knock, no warrant, very little conversation, just
started shooting.

They have audio and video of this whole thing...even of someone
from inside calling the cops asking WTF, they are firing on us,
they are firing on us!

At that point, the Branch Davidians begin to return fire, a tough
choice, but considering the actions of the government, slightly
understandable.

A few casualties are confirmed on both sides, ATF retreats and
then calls in the FBI...the rest is a giant circus for however many
days it carried on until the government started to pump the entire
building, constructed largely of timber, full of a nerve gas that was
KNOWN to be flammable, was outlawed and unused in other countries
and by some domestic agencies because of this very fact.

Furthermore, they pumped that nerve gas into a solid concrete space
that they knew was full of women and children for an exorbitant
amount of time.

When no one came out, probably due to the fact that the building was
destroyed around them and they were trapped in a small concrete room,
crippled by HIGH concentrations of poisonous nerve gas, the gubment
decided to start shooting ordinance into the building with incendiary
qualities...which leads to the big fire.

You can read James Bovard's well researched write ups of the event.

If you don't like reading, you can rent Waco: Rules of Engagement
which is also pretty even handed and informative.

Or you could keep on believing the skewed and incorrect soap opera
the news media played out for us all involving kidnapped and abused
children and all those other falsehoods we were fed to help justify
the government's response.

Either way, the important thing for you to note is that Bill Clinton did
not start that fight. That was an ATF and then FBI operation.

The ATF fucked it up, the FBI made it worse.

I will concede that Reno and Clinton sure didn't step in to intervene
the way they should have.

But, if you want to play that game...I didn't see Bush break his
vacation until 3 days after the storm was over and the scene had
escalated into shear madness. I don't see him intervening on behalf
of the Plame probe when it's pretty clear that there is someone in
his Administration leaking information. I don't see him intervening
on behalf of our nation's reputation by making sure the gulag at
gitmo is handled in a way fitting for a national superpower to run
its show.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4615930 - 09/03/05 12:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'd love to hear your take now, please.

The one with Bill Clinton riding in on a white horse
firing at David Koresh and setting the building on fire.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: afoaf]
    #4615948 - 09/03/05 12:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
I'd love to hear your take now, please.

The one with Bill Clinton riding in on a white horse
firing at David Koresh and setting the building on fire.




Hey dude. I didn't say that. What is wrong is that happened under Clintons watch. Like you said he didn't step in to intervene. Bush hasn't had an assualt on Americans on his watch yet. By the way it was a good sumary of events. The thing that happens usually though is that everyone blames the President at the time, much like everyone blames the Quarterback of a football team. Gitmo isn't a gulag and the thing with Bush being on vacation is bullshit. Presidents can make their decisions from anywhere now adays doesn't matter if they are from the White House or Texas.

I never said Clinton rode in on a white horse. But that bitch Reno that he appointed certainly didn't do much to help the situation and its arguable that she didn't add fuel to the fire if not give the orders.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4615951 - 09/03/05 12:21 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Please tell me what decisions bush was making to help
the disaster while he was on vacation for the whole
thing?

What was he doing to make sure things were getting
done to help aid the rescue and relief efforts?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: afoaf]
    #4615956 - 09/03/05 12:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

He says go help them. Then its up to the other channels of government to actually go act on the orders.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4615959 - 09/03/05 12:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

After reading this letter, I sure hope Moore has contributed alot to the aid effort. God knows he can afford it from making millions from his movies.


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: Redstorm]
    #4615967 - 09/03/05 12:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

He probably hasn't done shit. Just looking for the chance to bash bush and possibly make a couple more bucks. He's and oppurtunist.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4616001 - 09/03/05 12:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

WHile Moore has made money on his films, he had no idea, anyunore than those who turned down the distribution of Mel Gibsons movie that the movie would make so much money.

Moores 9/11 made much money because half of America destests george bush.

And yes, a few right wingers made counter production films in ordetr to dismiss Michael Moore's movies and they made no money.

It goes to show we are int he stages of a civil, civil war of 50% of America likes bBush and Fifty percent hates the fucker.

mj


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: mjshroomer]
    #4616176 - 09/03/05 01:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Theres a 50-50 divide because there is only two major parties dude. No one is going to start any civil war. Especially lefties all they know how to do is cry.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4619300 - 09/04/05 02:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bush hasn't had an assualt on Americans on his watch yet.




What about the American medical pot patients that he murders every year? What about the people of New Orleans who couldn't suvive the 5 FUCKING DAYS of waiting for help?

I say he murders plenty of Americans, and he has blood on his hands


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report


Edited by Smallworlds (09/04/05 02:18 PM)


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Invisible1stimer
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4619327 - 09/04/05 02:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Bush has about 2000 dead US soldiers' blood on his hands.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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OfflineSmallworlds
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: 1stimer]
    #4619333 - 09/04/05 02:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yes, add that too, what was I thinking?


--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..

Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
:peace::heart::slomo::gd_icon::gd_icon::gd_icon::slomo:


Trip Report


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #4619562 - 09/04/05 05:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

QuantumMeltdown said:
Theres a 50-50 divide because there is only two major parties dude. No one is going to start any civil war. Especially lefties all they know how to do is cry.




northern soldiers backed by liberal ideals won the first civil war ....we'd win again :evil: dont forget, while we may have a bunch of really pussy granola eaters on our side .....we've also got black people and i would venture a guess they have a some pent up aggression they wouldnt mind taking out on fat southern hicks :smirk:  oh yeah and the rest of the world would be on our side, especially hugo chavez!  :tongue:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: Smallworlds]
    #4619580 - 09/04/05 05:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Smallworlds said:
Quote:

Bush hasn't had an assualt on Americans on his watch yet.




What about the American medical pot patients that he murders every year? What about the people of New Orleans who couldn't suvive the 5 FUCKING DAYS of waiting for help?

I say he murders plenty of Americans, and he has blood on his hands




Bush does not have control over the legality of drugs, and he shouldn't. That sort of thing is up to Congress (and unfortunately, the Supreme Court).

Also, the President does not have jurisdiction over FEMA.

Blaming Bush for this and the drug war is absurd. If you really want to get down to it, Clinton did more to hinder the progression of legalization than Bush did.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: afoaf]
    #4619640 - 09/04/05 05:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Good call on the Waco events. Since I'm sure that the result of the Fed's propaganda will be displayed here with questions about Koreshs ALLEGED and UNPROVEN "child molestation", and of course, their "meth lab", I'll just head those off with the question..



Why would the ATF be involved in a child molestaion case? Or with a meth lab?


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #4619650 - 09/04/05 05:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
northern soldiers backed by liberal ideals won the first civil war ....we'd win again :evil: dont forget, while we may have a bunch of really pussy granola eaters on our side .....we've also got black people and i would venture a guess they have a some pent up aggression they wouldnt mind taking out on fat southern hicks :smirk:  oh yeah and the rest of the world would be on our side, especially hugo chavez!  :tongue:




A bunch of baboon faced black men with their street-weapons would be turned into Afro-turf if facing armed rednecks who spend their lives hunting and shooting targets.  I don't see the Bloods and the Crips doing live fire exercizes three times a week.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4619690 - 09/04/05 05:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'd put my money on the blacks myself. There are much more of them and the most important part....they stick together.


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

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Re: Michael Moore's Letter to george Bush about Katrina [Re: Sycronica]
    #4619757 - 09/04/05 06:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If these blacks are so good at uprisings and fighting whitey, why did whites have to go to war to free them from slavery? The only thing that would be bad for the white people in a 'race war' is that no blacks would fight on the whites side, but tons of morons like KOTT would be out helpin his soul bruvvas shoot people. Of course, 1500 black guys shooting they glocks sideways like fiddy be doz'in versus 20 white guys who have hunted their entire lives would be a huge black-death-fest.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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