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OfflineVulture
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4571684 - 08/23/05 06:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

jesus was just one of the perfect masters such as Buddha, Zoaroaster (sp?) , Muhammed, Meher Baba, ect.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4571694 - 08/23/05 07:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup: thanks for the great answer. I think I get where you are comming from.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBenwa
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: Icelander]
    #4571967 - 08/23/05 08:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Another, maybe even more important question- Does it matter?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: Benwa]
    #4571981 - 08/23/05 08:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Of course it does/doesn't.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: Icelander]
    #4572254 - 08/23/05 09:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Of course it does/doesn't.  :mushroom2:




good one :smile:


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: Vulture]
    #4572351 - 08/23/05 09:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Of course, feel free to be a Theosophist, but you're not defining Christ from within the early Christian tradition, but from an essentially Hinduistic, avataric perspective. There is no such thing as "perfect masters" within any tradition of Christianity. The closest ancient parallel was Manichaeanism in which Mani included Buddha with Jesus and Zoroaster (Zarathustra) as 'masters.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4572425 - 08/23/05 10:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i wasent going for defining him in any certain way.

i dont like label when it comes to religion. its all the same...all religions are one in my mind.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: Vulture]
    #4572646 - 08/23/05 10:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

They're only "one" at the peak of the 'many-sided religious mountain,' so you have to know the outer differences as well as the inner identity in order to communicate with different people.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4573010 - 08/24/05 12:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I believe he existed. I don't believe in the perverse religion which followed in his name, however.


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Offlineaig
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: bukkake]
    #4609632 - 09/01/05 08:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i will find my salvation through myself. I believe only i can save myself.


--------------------
The things you own end up owning you.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4610248 - 09/01/05 10:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

"Only eyes that become like the sun can look into the sun."
-Plotinus


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: aig]
    #4610274 - 09/01/05 10:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

...as one can lift oneself up by one's own bootstraps?
You, qua You are NOT the Transcendental Source. Saying so is just delusion and complete pretension.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4610353 - 09/01/05 11:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Markos, ever considered that man creates God in his own image? could you point out one god in history that does not display human personality or motivations?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: lightemup]
    #4610415 - 09/01/05 11:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If anyone's ever seen the Family Guy movie, I believe Jesus as depicted is more in line with the true Jesus.

If he exisetd. I don't have faith in the matter; for all I know he could be an elaborate construct of those power-hungry individuals, and all the Christians would be none the wiser because most could care less about evidence; many rely on pure faith for their beliefs, like a man trying to live on air alone. Of course, I also don't care if they do have faith, as long as it doesn't affect me; the only annoying part is when they claim it as an absolute truth and tell others who don't follow it that they're wrong, despite lacking any evidence to support their "absolute truths".


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: psychomime]
    #4610629 - 09/02/05 12:16 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm personally not interested in the anthropomorphizations that we make of GOD. We are 'souls' that have personalities, and the Designer behind all of creation is at least personal, but not in any manner human (which would be comprehensible). I suspect that what is commonly referred to as 'GOD's Will' is far more profound metaphysically than most people realize. I grok that the only 'invariant feature' of consciousnesss according to Phenomenology is 'intentionality' or 'will.' Given the Hermetic teaching of 'As Above, So Below,' the Microcosm that human 'souls' are somehow reflect the Macrocosmic Deity - like solar systems and atoms, so-to-speak.

I am personally interested in GOD, who is at least personal, but Transpersonal and Transcendental, and I am also capable of being transpersonally aware of GOD and transcendentally aware of GOD depending upon which 'world' one is talking about. We are, according to Kabbalah, capable of existing in four worlds simultaneously. I exist consciously and unconsciously in three of those worlds: the simply physical, the personality and the soul. This model now presents the path of 'Knowledge' [Gnosis] by which the 'Abyss' to the spiritual world of the Supernals is to be entered into. From my current stage of development, that potential looks like a 'future' development, even though I believe it to be a present possibility. Meanwhile, I have attemped to dwell in Tiphereth (http://www.crystalinks.com/kabala.html) as much as is given to me, and to incorporate the first two worlds to create the Wholeness necessary for the final ascent.

This may surpass you simply question, but what I equate the word GOD with is Ultimate Reality, and THAT Reality is a Living Reality, not merely a mechanical, physical one. The universe of space-time and celestial phenomena is real, but is not Ultimate Reality - not GOD - and I want to Know GOD.

Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblekrishnamurti
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4611578 - 09/02/05 05:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

someone please tell me the importance of knowing if a certain person was alive 2000 years ago. i got better shit to worry about now thx. maybe he had some valid things to say back in his day, but its nothing i cant figure out on my own now.

as for 'god', or the thoughts that come to each of our heads when we see/hear that word, it really should only be important what you think about it. so why keep entertaining ourselves on what it is with that small hope of a conclusion when there will never be one.


--------------------
I'll see you down in Guantanamo Bay

Donate spores to FSRC or suffer the consequences!*

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: krishnamurti]
    #4611628 - 09/02/05 07:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Someone tell you, or is it me you're asking?

I am gnostic - a 'knower.' I aim for Knower-Knowledge-Known to be One.

You apparently are an agnostic - one who 'does not know.'

If you are referring to Jesus, and have not discerned His importance, I assure you that you will not "figure out" what you need or you would have figured out His importance by now.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4611676 - 09/02/05 08:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I'm personally not interested in the anthropomorphizations that we make of GOD. We are 'souls' that have personalities, and the Designer behind all of creation is at least personal, but not in any manner human (which would be comprehensible). I suspect that what is commonly referred to as 'GOD's Will' is far more profound metaphysically than most people realize. I grok that the only 'invariant feature' of consciousnesss according to Phenomenology is 'intentionality' or 'will.' Given the Hermetic teaching of 'As Above, So Below,' the Microcosm that human 'souls' are somehow reflect the Macrocosmic Deity - like solar systems and atoms, so-to-speak.

I am personally interested in GOD, who is at least personal, but Transpersonal and Transcendental, and I am also capable of being transpersonally aware of GOD and transcendentally aware of GOD depending upon which 'world' one is talking about. We are, according to Kabbalah, capable of existing in four worlds simultaneously. I exist consciously and unconsciously in three of those worlds: the simply physical, the personality and the soul. This model now presents the path of 'Knowledge' [Gnosis] by which the 'Abyss' to the spiritual world of the Supernals is to be entered into. From my current stage of development, that potential looks like a 'future' development, even though I believe it to be a present possibility. Meanwhile, I have attemped to dwell in Tiphereth (http://www.crystalinks.com/kabala.html) as much as is given to me, and to incorporate the first two worlds to create the Wholeness necessary for the final ascent.

This may surpass you simply question, but what I equate the word GOD with is Ultimate Reality, and THAT Reality is a Living Reality, not merely a mechanical, physical one. The universe of space-time and celestial phenomena is real, but is not Ultimate Reality - not GOD - and I want to Know GOD.

Peace.




Very well said


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: lightemup]
    #4611769 - 09/02/05 10:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I consider the story of Jesus to be a metaphorical "handbook" meant for those who have become trapped in the ego during the development thereof. It shows how to live in a way that will lead you to a peaceful state of mind.

The catch is, the main characters are parts of your psyche.

To me, Jesus represents the conscious thinker... the part of ourselves that we identify with consciously. The "I" in "I think..."

In order to reach a peaceful state of mind, one must surrender that ego... they must let go of their tendency to identify with the thinking mind. By letting go of this attachment to the thinking mind, one is able to "be" without thought.

This is the crucifixion of Jesus... this is how Jesus' (or the ego's) "sacrifice" can save us... the catch is, the saving is from our own anxious over-thinking brains.

--

This is just my opinion, and it definitely skews to fit my experiences in life... no denying that.

BUT, I still think it's important to recognize that this is a view that allows logical explanation of the one question that seems to bug everyone who questions the logical consistency of Christianity:

"How can some guy getting nailed to a cross 2000 years ago save me from my sins?"


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Do U Believe In Jesus? [Re: lightemup]
    #4611905 - 09/02/05 12:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)


My question is... why is it that people try to "push" their religion (Beliefs) onto others, and would they be offended if someone did the same to them...


Because they're beliefs. People with strong beliefs don't think of them as something that they just believe in, and everyone else is entitled to their own opinion. They BELIEVE. They believe they're absolutely right.

If you admit that other people are equally entitled to their beliefs, you don't truly believe. Because that's admitting that your beliefs might be wrong.

If you truly believe that without faith in Jesus you will burn forever in hellfire eternal... well, you'd be a dick not to try and convert anyone you see. What kind of person lets others suffer infinite torture?

This is the essential fallacy of religious tolerance. To tolerate another religion is to demean your religion.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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