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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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The Holy Trinity
    #4608274 - 09/01/05 03:04 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure if The Holy Trinity has been already discussed here but it would be nice to hear all your views in that subject.

I'm reading a book by Yogananda and here are some interesting quotes I would like to share.

----------

"Spirit, being the only existing Substance, had naught but Itself with which to create. Spirit and Its universal creation could not be essentially different, for two ever-existing Infinite Forces would consequently each be absolute, which is by definition an impossibility. An orderly creation requires the duality of Creator and created. Thus Spirit first gave rise to a Magical Delusion, Maya, the cosmic Magical Measurer, which produces the illusion of dividing a portion of the Indivisible Infinite into separate finite objects, even as a calm ocean becomes distorted into individual waves on its surface by the action of a storm. All creation is nothing but Spirit, seemingly and temporarily diversified by Spirit's creative vibratory activity.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All Things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men (John 1:1-4)


"Word" means intelligent vibration, intelligent energy, going forth from God. Any utterance of a word, such as "flower," expressed by an intelligent being, consists of sound energy or vibration, plus thought, which imbues that vibration with intelligent meaning. Likewise, the Word that is the beginning and the source of all created substances is Cosmic Vibration imbued with Cosmic Intelligence.

"The Word was with God, and the Word was God": Before creation, there is only undifferentiated Spirit. In manifesting creation, Spirit becomes God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

As soon as Spirit evolved a cosmic vibratory thought, through the action of the cosmic magical measuring power of maya, delusion, the Unmanifested Spirit became God the Father, the Creator of all creative vibration. God the Father exists transcendentally untouched by any tremor of vibratory creation?a conscious, separate Cosmic Consciousness.

The vibratory force emanating from Spirit, endowed with the illusory creative force power of maya, is the Holy Ghost: Cosmic Vibration, the Word, Aum (Om).

* Aum of the Vedas became the sacred word Hum of the Tibetans, Amin of the Moslems, and Amen of the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Jews, and Christians. The meaning of Amen in Hebrew is "sure, faithful."

A cosmic vibration omnipresently active in space could not of itself create or sustain the wondrously complex cosmos. The universe is not the result merely of a fortuitous combination of vibrating forces and subatomic particles, as proposed by material scientists?a chance excrescence of solid, liquids, and gases into earth, ocean, atmosphere, plants all harmoniously interrelated to provide a habitable home for human beings. Blind forces cannot organize themselves into intelligently structured objects. As human intelligence is need to put water into the small square compartments of an ice tray to be frozen into cubes, so in the coalescence of vibration into progressively evolving forms throughout the universe we see the result of a hidden Immanent Intelligence. The transcendent consciousness of God the Father became manifested within the Holy Ghost vibration as the Son?the Christ Consciousness, God's intelligence in a vibratory creation. This pure reflection of God in the Holy Ghost indirectly guides into create, re-create, preserve and mold creation according to God's divine purpose.

Just as the husband is born again in the wife as the son, so the transcendental God the Father manifested in the Holy Ghost, the Cosmic Virgin Mary (the Virgin Creation), became the sole reflected intelligence of God, the only begotten Son, or Christ Consciousness.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4608281 - 09/01/05 03:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:confused:

Holy Trinity:

Body
Mind
Spirit

?


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: MOTH]
    #4608352 - 09/01/05 03:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

You are going to have to be more specific than that...  :confused: :smile:


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4608453 - 09/01/05 03:31 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I'm on this ride with you.  :smile:


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4608519 - 09/01/05 03:43 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Why do you ask me precisely if the Body, Mind and Spirit is the holy trinity? I mean what makes you think it is?

Your reply was under a minute from my post and I find it hard to believe you grasped the quotes so fast. Instead of asking me, I suggest you to read it and then ask again. I think it will help me understand better your question after you rephrase it.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4608570 - 09/01/05 03:52 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It wasn't anything I haven't read before.  It all felt familiar in the reading.  I've heard many of those types of ideas and concepts before.  Now, I don't mean that in a condescending way, not at all.  I've come across the same findings in my reading recently.  So I was just replying what I've been thinking. It's not as "simple" as body mind and spirit.  Your post stated matters much more eloquently.  I don't know how or why, but I'm just trying to figure it out along with everyone else. 

I had no question specifically.  More like a wondering.  Body mind and spirit?  The holy trinity?  :confused:  Who knows?  I don't.  :smile: It goes deeper then that.  The masters you speak of in your post have caught a glimpse that goes farther then most of us can conceive on our own right now. 

I don't know anything.  That's why I clicked on your thread.  :smile:


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: MOTH]
    #4608635 - 09/01/05 04:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

No problemo :smile:  :heart:


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar


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OnlineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4609343 - 09/01/05 06:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yogananda's take on Christ and Christianity in general was severely flawed on many points. It was interesting to have read Autobiography of a Yogi in 1975 as it whet my appetite to know more about Christ, but Hinduism tends to absorb other faiths and interpret their metaphysics by Hindu metaphysics.

If you want a modern example of Christian theology - Christian existential theology - try John McQuarrie's Principles of Christian Theology which can usually be found at Borders Books and Music. McQuarrie's rendering of trinitarian theology even explained itself to a 70+ year old Nigerian Muslim (a Ph.D. electrical engineer, and my Lady's father) who said that he finally 'got it,' after a lifetime of Muslim anti-trinitarian propaganda which simply rendered it as polytheism). It reads a lot clearer than Augustine's two volumes on the doctrine!


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4609654 - 09/01/05 08:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Any of the flawed points you could talk about? I'm very interested.


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OnlineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4609944 - 09/01/05 09:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Without going into detail, Yogananda does provide fresh insights into Christianity by 'psychologizing' much of the theology - bringing it from the mythic domain to the domain of human experience. He makes tremendous intuitive leaps, some of which are closely allied, like the Indian syllable OM or AUM and the Greek notion of 'Word' as 'Logos.' These concepts are parallel if not identical, but these interesting points are generally held within the greater field of Indian thought which pantheistically equates materiality (Great Mother as Maya) with the spirituality of Consciousness. This derives from Advaita (Non-Dualist) Indian metaphysics and cannot be reconciled with the Judao-Christian transcendent nature of GOD. So in reading Yogananda, one cannot see the forest for all the interesting trees. The small points make one say "Hmmmmm," or "Aha!," but one has to see the larger assumptions in which these assertions are embedded.

If one wants to understand the original meanings of a religion, one has to enter into the frame of reference (the mind-set) of that religion. Approaching Christianity from Hindu thought diminishes the true meaning of the Christian doctrine because the interpretation is NOT that of the originators no matter how many close parallels and occasional conceptual identities might arise. Christ, for example, is not an 'avatar' or a "saint" (Neem Karolie Baba) from a Christian perspective. That assertion is part of the typical absorption that Hinduism is known for.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineSerioOria
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4610067 - 09/01/05 09:49 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I don't know anything. That's why I clicked on your thread.




the more ya know, the less you realize you know

i have to agree with ellemy that all the concepts sounded familiar, i honestly think thats not too far from the truth, although the ideas relating to god were somewhat farfetched, the meaning that the spirit set into motion the physical is sound in many circles of belief


--------------------
Live every day like it is your first
or
Live every day like it is your last
My ArT!!


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: SerioOria]
    #4610116 - 09/01/05 10:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

As a Neo-Druid, trinities play (and were always important to the ancient kelts) a very important role in my path. Everything was broken down to triads in their teachings.Father, Mother, Child. Land, Sea, Sky. Three circles of existence, three rays of Awen, and so on. Even their deities were made from three personifications.

Three is a very religous number. Everything in the universe is made up of three basic components. Even our concepts of self. Druidic Triad: Three things that make a person, What he thinks he is, What others think he is, and what he really is.

The number 3 plays a very important role in almost every religion. As I stated previously, it is often thought of as the core of existence.


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OnlineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: SerioOria]
    #4610236 - 09/01/05 10:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't 'Know' the inner nature of the unknowable and transcendental GOD, but I do know the theology that intellectualizes such things. It is interesting how the seeking plus interpretations of dcripture plus certain mystical experiences have contributed to the formation of intellectual doctrines. I have a Masters degree in Theological Studies from a well known Methodist Seminary and I think that theology marks the greatest intellectual pretention that humans can muster.

It's like a Dungeons & Dragons game with the Hebrew magician Moses doing battle with the Egyptian sorcerers, King Saul consulting the forbidden witch of Endor, pillars of flame and smoke, GOD appearing out of thin air over the solid gold 'mercy seat' between the twin Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant, graves thrown open and bodies resurrected at the death of Jesus on the cross, the veil of the Temple's Holy-of-Holies rent, as the portal between the temporal and eternal worlds is torn open. Hey, it doesn't get any further out than Biblical myth and the 'spiritual mechanics' called theology.

Any 'Knowing' that I infer is definately not an intellectual Knowing about the Divine Economia - the eternal interpersonal dynamics in a Holy Trinity - yet I will pray formulaically in the Names of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (or Holy Mother). I grok a mystical meaning in threeness and have had a Great Experience of Oneness-Threeness-Quaternity. I have been influenced [in-fluenced - my conscious spirit flowed inwardly to The Center]. I have been Awed beyond my furthest imaginings, yet I do not Understand as one can understand cause-effect.

"Have you ever been Experienced [by GOD]? Well, I have....Not necessarily stoned, but Beautiful [Beauty=Tiphereth]." - J.H.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4612324 - 09/02/05 02:20 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

markos:It's like a Dungeons & Dragons game with the Hebrew magician Moses doing battle with the Egyptian sorcerers, King Saul consulting the forbidden witch of Endor, pillars of flame and smoke, GOD appearing out of thin air over the solid gold 'mercy seat' between the twin Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant, graves thrown open and bodies resurrected at the death of Jesus on the cross, the veil of the Temple's Holy-of-Holies rent, as the portal between the temporal and eternal worlds is torn open. Hey, it doesn't get any further out than Biblical myth and the 'spiritual mechanics' called theology.
Wow ! Theat is a great description ! Thanks :thumbup:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OnlineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Holy Trinity [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4612927 - 09/02/05 05:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Cool! Glad you liked it, I was feeling playful.


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