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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder
    #4607840 - 09/01/05 11:17 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The day Katrina happened Bush was selling some medicare issue on vacation. It seems like he is trying to ignore the hurricane. The national guard is deployed overseas and cant help and it is bushs fault. He cant hide from his mistakes forever.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: 1stimer]
    #4607855 - 09/01/05 11:20 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

You mean President Bush was in office back in 1910 when this levee/pump system was installed and over the next 95 years caused the city to sink 9 feet? Wow! That is one long serving President!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: 1stimer]
    #4607860 - 09/01/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

1stimer said:
He cant hide from his mistakes forever.



He won't have to. He only has to hide from them for the next 3 years.


--------------------

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Offlinesnoopaloop53
No BetterFriend. NoWorse Friend.

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 311
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Silversoul]
    #4607874 - 09/01/05 11:26 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

What did you want him to do? Maybe go cover the story like the weather channel and other news outlets? Or maybe he should have gone to the gulf coast and held up a giant umbrella so it wouldn't get rained on and flood.

If he was "selling some medicare issue on vacation" then doesn't that mean he's working and not on vacation? Kinda shows that the president is never really on vacation.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4608150 - 09/01/05 12:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Katrina would not have happened if Al gore or John Kerry were President.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: 1stimer]
    #4608244 - 09/01/05 12:57 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

In the New Orleans Times-Picayune (June 8, 2004) Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish stated the following:
Quote:

It appears that the money has been moved in the president?s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that?s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can?t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.




--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4608276 - 09/01/05 01:04 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

do you have a link? or is this all you want to mention in the article.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4608339 - 09/01/05 01:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
In the New Orleans Times-Picayune (June 8, 2004) Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish stated the following:
Quote:

It appears that the money has been moved in the president?s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that?s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can?t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.









And like everything else in this sorry day and age, we will emerge from this catastrophe not trying to figure out how to prevent the next one, but instead trying to gain political advantage by pinning blame whether it belongs there or not - just like the 9/11 Commisssion (expect Governor Blanco to be placed on the Commission that looks into failures leading up to Katrina).


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608345 - 09/01/05 01:15 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4608358 - 09/01/05 01:16 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

thanks i already read it on Michael Moore's website.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608390 - 09/01/05 01:20 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Could you please provide a link then for everybody else, as I never visit his site and I don't think most people can access the story on the link I gave.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4608412 - 09/01/05 01:23 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608419 - 09/01/05 01:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

now i feel like taking a shower.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (09/01/05 02:18 PM)

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608439 - 09/01/05 01:27 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
And like everything else in this sorry day and age, we will emerge from this catastrophe not trying to figure out how to prevent the next one,



Actually the potential for such a disaster in New Orleans has been known about for many, many years. The city has been below sea level for quite some time and humans have known about hurricanes and their accompanying storm surges for quite some time. Such an event WAS predicted and it was known how to limit the damage for many, many years. The majority of The Netherlands is below sea level and the area is subject to flooding - the technology is tried and proven.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608445 - 09/01/05 01:28 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I like the picture of Bush with the guitar.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4608456 - 09/01/05 01:32 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

so now you are comparing the Netherlands situation to New Orleans?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608535 - 09/01/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The Dutch have a long history of protecting their people below sea level from the ravages of nature. They have learned their lessons the hard way.
Quote:

In February 1953 the Netherlands faced disaster when the dikes protecting the southwest of the country were breached by the joint onslaught of a hurricane-force northwesterly wind and exceptionally high spring tides. The flood came in the night without warning, a fateful combination of freak high tides and gale-force winds that killed 1,835 people. Almost 200,000 hectares of land was swamped, 3,000 homes and 300 farms destroyed, and 47,000 heads of cattle drowned. It was The Netherlands' worst disaster for 300 years.
link



New Orleans is below sea level and is now flooded. As I said, the danger to New Orleans has been known about for some time, it was not a question of if a major hurricane with a high storm surge was going to hit it, but when and if steps were to be taken beforehand to lessen the possibility and extent of damage.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4608556 - 09/01/05 01:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

In my opinion, places like NO are not even worth flood-proofing. The huge amount of money and effort to do this is not even worth it.

People just need to learn not to live on the coast where hurricanes hit yearly. I know not everyone would be able to just pack up and move somewhere else, but there comes a time where you have to take responsibility for where you choose to live.

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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4608559 - 09/01/05 01:50 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I was watching a cool documentary on the dutch and their
dyke system.

it's cool because the internal travel and shipping is largely
done via canals and ships.

pretty interesting stuff, from an engineering perspective.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608862 - 09/01/05 02:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Well at least Bush waited until the city and surrounding aresa were underwater before attempting to coordinate any sort of relief effort whatsoever. The admin had about a three-day head start to get the wheels in motion as the predicitons were made public days in advance, but nothing was done.  :thumbdown:

Is that what you call good leadership?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Swami]
    #4608872 - 09/01/05 02:59 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I agree. I was just posting in the other forum what could have been done.

Their could have been a national weather service that was tracking the storm with NOAA satellites. The national guard could have been ready for deployment. The citizens could have been warned and told to leave the city. I wonder why that didn't happen! Probably because Bush was out drowning baby seals in oil?



-edit-

Boy do I have egg on my face! I just researched those things that I'd have recommended and golly-willickers Beav, they did just that!


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4608898 - 09/01/05 03:05 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

So the state of rescue and aid in NO now is a result of good planning? What would you consider poor planning?

Did Bush meet with the governors of Mississippi and Lousiana BEFORE Katrina hit?

YES or NO answer please.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Swami]
    #4608914 - 09/01/05 03:09 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Well at least Bush waited until the city and surrounding aresa were underwater before attempting to coordinate any sort of relief effort whatsoever. The admin had about a three-day head start to get the wheels in motion as the predicitons were made public days in advance, but nothing was done.  :thumbdown:
Is that what you call good leadership?






I'm gonna post this every time I see a bash Bush article...





Bush declares emergency in Louisiana (Hurricane Katrina)

AP ^ | Aug. 27, 2005 | Staff



aug 27,2005


CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on Saturday because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina and his spokesman urged residents along the coast to heed authorities' advice to evacuate.

Bush, vacationing at his ranch, was being regularly updated about the storm, which is expected to hit land early Monday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Officials from the Federal Emergency Management Agency continue to coordinate with state authorities in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama, and have prepositioned supplies in areas expected to be affected, he said.

The president's emergency declaration authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance in a number of Louisiana parishes, or counties.

Authorities told residents of low-lying coastal communities to head for higher ground. The storm was expected to strengthen as it crosses the Gulf of Mexico and could become a Category 4 hurricane with wind of at least 131 mph.

"We urge residents in the areas that could be impacted to follow the recommendations of local authorities," McClellan said.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

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Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Swami]
    #4608915 - 09/01/05 03:09 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Have any governors met with the president BEFORE a disaster occured? What would he have done with absolutely no knowledge of it? The fuckin hurricane TURNED at the last minute and NO wasn't hit as hard as they thought it would have been. Maybe some troops with plastic shields could have held the water back?


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Swami]
    #4608924 - 09/01/05 03:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe Bush should have sent the National Guard down BEFORE the flooding. They could have assumed bailing positions and chucked buckets of air over the dams.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4608929 - 09/01/05 03:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

And he could have rescued all of the people who were(n't) on the rooftops, and he could have given water to people who still had it and who still had chances to go to the grocery store.

The typical rally cry of the liberal "I don't know what we should be doing, but I know what we are doing is wrong!"


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4608937 - 09/01/05 03:13 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Probably because Bush was out drowning baby seals in oil?

Link?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Swami]
    #4608946 - 09/01/05 03:15 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608957 - 09/01/05 03:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Washington has now stepped in to help Louisiana weather the storm in the coming days.
    Earlier Saturday, President Bush declared a State of Emergency for Louisiana. That means federal agencies are now ready to help prepare for the storm.
    Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declared a State of Emergency on Friday to mobilize National Guard units in the state.
    In south Louisiana, people prepared for Katrina's arrival by boarding up their homes. Many others took the advice from both the governor and FEMA to leave now.
    FEMA spokesman Michael Brown said, "You have about 36 hours now to understand how serious this storm is, and to make your preparations to keep your family and to keep your business safe. You've got to do that now. (Sunday) and Monday will be too late. "





Oh come on! Just because the people knew that the storm was coming, FEMA and Bush had a plan of action, people were told to evacuate, a SoE was declared, national guard units were put on alert, man, as if that matters! What bush should have done was...

OK Swami, finish that sentance :smile:


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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OfflineVex
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 1,284
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608958 - 09/01/05 03:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

Swami said:
Well at least Bush waited until the city and surrounding aresa were underwater before attempting to coordinate any sort of relief effort whatsoever. The admin had about a three-day head start to get the wheels in motion as the predicitons were made public days in advance, but nothing was done.  :thumbdown:
Is that what you call good leadership?






I'm gonna post this every time I see a bash Bush article...





Bush declares emergency in Louisiana (Hurricane Katrina)

AP ^ | Aug. 27, 2005 | Staff



aug 27,2005


CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on Saturday because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina and his spokesman urged residents along the coast to heed authorities' advice to evacuate.

Bush, vacationing at his ranch, was being regularly updated about the storm, which is expected to hit land early Monday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Officials from the Federal Emergency Management Agency continue to coordinate with state authorities in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama, and have prepositioned supplies in areas expected to be affected, he said.

The president's emergency declaration authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance in a number of Louisiana parishes, or counties.

Authorities told residents of low-lying coastal communities to head for higher ground. The storm was expected to strengthen as it crosses the Gulf of Mexico and could become a Category 4 hurricane with wind of at least 131 mph.

"We urge residents in the areas that could be impacted to follow the recommendations of local authorities," McClellan said.




a state of emergency is almost always declared before a hurricane hits. Bush didn't do anything special there.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Vex]
    #4608973 - 09/01/05 03:22 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

he told people to get the fuck out and authorized FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts.

and he should have???

vex can you finish the sentence?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4608999 - 09/01/05 03:28 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"He declared..."

Well I guess everything is fine then because Burning Bush spoke.

Do you truly think the preparation and plans have been successful? It sure looks piecemeal and very shoddy to me with no real organization. What would shitty preparation look like?

*Swami flicks on news*

Are you watching a different channel than I am?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineVex
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4609008 - 09/01/05 03:30 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

he did what he should have done...i didn't say otherwise. i'me just saying that declaring a state of emergency before a hurricane is what presidents/governors always do. he followed standard procedure.

although considering the strength of this storm before it hit the president might have been inclined to do a little more. Considering in the 24 hours leading up to it coming ashore everyone was pretty much in agreement that new orleans was going to be under twenty feet of water, then perhaps bush should have maybe gone on the air to adress the people of new orleans and tell them just how serious the storm was and what he was going to do in the aftermath. Also, public transportation out of the city might have been a good idea. There are now hundreds of buses in an around new orleans (not doing much evacuating i might add) and i wonder why were these buses not used to evacuate before the storm?

it certainly isn't bushs' biggest blunder. i think he's doing what he can with the situation, but he could have done more. We all knew the storm wasn't just another hurricane. Everyone knew it was big, so it should have been treated as such.

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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Swami]
    #4609105 - 09/01/05 03:53 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
"He declared..."

Well I guess everything is fine then because Burning Bush spoke.





If his speaking doesn't matter, what would he have done in the meeting with the governnors that you alluded to earlier? Sucked each other off? melted kiddie pools together to hold the water?
Quote:


Do you truly think the preparation and plans have been successful? It sure looks piecemeal and very shoddy to me with no real organization. What would shitty preparation look like?




Indonesia after the tsunami.  It's not going to look like peaches and fluffed pillows for a while, the fucking WATER IS STILL THERE.  As I've offered others man, I am doing volunteer work for the Red Cross and I'm helping people who want to lend a hand get down there. We'll feed you, keep you warm and give you clean water. PM me your contact info if you know so much more than we do. I can have you on the ground in a day :smile:
Quote:


Are you watching a different channel than I am?



Hey, no shit. Disasters suck.  Thats why it's a called a "Disaster" rather than "The easily prevented thingie that two days preparation for would have totally eliminated"


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Vex]
    #4609115 - 09/01/05 03:55 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vex said:
he did what he should have done...i didn't say otherwise. i'me just saying that declaring a state of emergency before a hurricane is what presidents/governors always do. he followed standard procedure.

although considering the strength of this storm before it hit the president might have been inclined to do a little more. Considering in the 24 hours leading up to it coming ashore everyone was pretty much in agreement that new orleans was going to be under twenty feet of water, then perhaps bush should have maybe gone on the air to adress the people of new orleans and tell them just how serious the storm was and what he was going to do in the aftermath. Also, public transportation out of the city might have been a good idea. There are now hundreds of buses in an around new orleans (not doing much evacuating i might add) and i wonder why were these buses not used to evacuate before the storm?

it certainly isn't bushs' biggest blunder. i think he's doing what he can with the situation, but he could have done more. We all knew the storm wasn't just another hurricane. Everyone knew it was big, so it should have been treated as such.





*ahem*

Quote:


"We urge residents in the areas that could be impacted to follow the recommendations of local authorities," McClellan said.




Thats from a White House spokesman. Do you think that the reason that these poor black people didn't leave was beacuse Bush himself didn't tell them?
"Yo niggaz, duh guvvnah just be tellinz us to leave and shit, so duz dem poh-poh and da mayuh, but till I sees muh faaaaaavrite pressident on da teevees a-tellin me dat hissself, I ain't be goin nowhere up out this bitch!"


Hardly.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4609149 - 09/01/05 04:00 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Where there ANY caravans of govt buses and trucks and vans to evacuate the destitute BEFORE the hurricane - YES or NO?

This relatively cheap to do with minimal planning. Too easy and forward-thinking?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Swami]
    #4609185 - 09/01/05 04:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"Lets put all of our troops right in the soon-to-be-flooded area!"

When I hear it, I can see a few reasons that it was vetoed. Maybe we could have the magical spell circle do a evaporation dance, or something else equally stupid and useless?


http://southernstudies.org/facingsouth/2005/08/katrina-military-response.asp
Quote:


Katrina military response
By R. Neal

The U.S. military and National Guard units around the South are mobilizing in response to Katrina. Here are some reports:


Army News Service:

# More than 5,000 National Guard troops have been activated in four states to assist with recovery operations as 140-mph winds of Hurricane Katrina strike the Gulf Coast.

# The Army Corps of Engineers is anticipating potential requirements to pump water out of New Orleans, much of which is below sea level and protected by a system of dikes, levees and pumps.

# First U.S. Army activated its 24-hour Crisis Action Team Aug. 28 and sent defense coordinating elements to three states. These elements help U.S. Northern Command coordinate DoD support to civil authorities as requested by the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

# About 780 National Guard troops were called to state active duty in Florida to help distribute ice and water and to man Logistic Support Sites in Miami and Homestead, Fla. At least six Florida residents were reportedly killed in the storm and about half a million were without electric power.

# Mississippi activated 853 National Guard troops and has staged them at Camp Shelby, Miss., for the recovery operation. The Soldiers are ready to perform debris removal, security and logistical support, officials said.

# Alabama has activated about 160 National Guard troops who are helping sandbag critical coastal areas and have prepositioned generators and trucks for the hurricane recovery operation.




MM - Hey ! Look at that! "prepositioned trucks!" Man, Good thing you don't bother researching what you are talking about!
Quote:



The Alabama National Guard activated its Emergency Operations Center in Mobile with support from the 711th Signal Battalion and the 226th Area Support Group, state officials said. They said Army and Air National Guard troops are also monitoring the hurricane and emergency response operations from the Guard?s Joint Operations Center in Montgomery.

# "Right now [ed. note: yesterday], First Army is leaning forward and planning for any number of needs the states may have once this hurricane hits," said Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honor?, commanding general, First U.S. Army. "I have been in contact with each of the state?s adjutant generals and assured them that First Army is ready to help."

"One of the things we learned last year with the series of hurricanes that passed through Florida, was the need for satellite communications," said Col. James Hickey, chief of staff, First U.S. Army. "This storm will likely take out some key communications nodes and cell phones and land lines may not work for some time."

Based on that assessment, First Army is identifying satellite phones and other military communications assets that do not rely on local infrastructure. Food, water and ice are also key resources and the military is planning to help with quick distribution of those supplies in the aftermath of the storm.

Other possible requirements include helicopter support for evacuation, emergency supplies and damage assessments; medical personnel, supplies and equipment to include sanitation expertise; transportation units with the capability to ford high water; watercraft assets for coastal areas; and construction, bridging and utility engineer units.

U.S. Navy:

# The amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5) and other U.S. Navy assets are making preparations to provide assistance in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, if needed. Bataan is currently underway in the Gulf of Mexico and standing by to provide assistance as needed in hurricane-affected areas.

Based in Norfolk, Bataan is underway for previously scheduled operations, and will remain in the vicinity of impacted areas until otherwise directed. If called upon, Bataan brings unique humanitarian capabilities to the scene. [ed. note: the Bataan has a 600 bed hospital on board.]

# Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron Fifteen (HM-15) embarked three MH-53E helicopters in preparation for possible relief efforts along the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The MH-53E Sea Dragon is capable of carrying 55 passengers and 16 tons of cargo 50 nautical miles.

U.S. Coast Guard:

# More than 40 Coast Guard aircraft from units along the entire eastern seaboard, along with more than 30 small boats, patrol boats and cutters, are positioning themselves in staging areas around the projected impact area - from Jacksonville, Fla., to Houston - making preparations to conduct immediate post-hurricane search, rescue and humanitarian aid operations, waterway impact assessments and waterway reconstitution operations.

[ed. note: the U.S. Coast Guard has set up a news and information website with rescue reports and photos.]

From the Shreveport Times:

As Hurricane Katrina surged past New Orleans, Louisiana mobilized its soldiers to help, as did Mississippi, Alabama and other southern states. Despite prominent roles in the War on Terror, the states report more than the 50 percent strength mandated for homeland missions. Louisiana has 65 percent of its troops available for state missions; Mississippi, 60 percent; Alabama, 77 percent; and Florida, 74 percent, Guard officials said.

[..]

The Louisiana National Guard had called almost 3,500 of its members to state active duty as of 7 a.m. Monday to help with missions that ranged from aiding law enforcement agencies with traffic control and security to conducting searches and rescues and providing generator support. Guard members conducted security and screening at the emergency shelter at the New Orleans Superdome, and elsewhere helped state police with evacuations.

Some have expressed concern that the National Guard might be spread too thin because of deployments to Iraq. According to the report from the Shreveport Times above, officials say they have sufficient personnel to aid in the recovery efforts. At any rate, these folks have a tough job ahead of them for the next days and weeks, and Gulf Coast residents will be grateful for their assistance.




So they did pre-position assets, they have STRONG troop presence despite our little oil crusade... man, what points do you want to make now? I'm in the zone for shooting your bullshit down the toilet.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Posts: 7,469
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4609480 - 09/01/05 05:30 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

If you are working for the Red Cross during such a National State of Emergency, how do you have so much free time to be reading and posting here if I may ask?

Are you helping them to organise relief efforts or shromerites opinions about them?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4611746 - 09/02/05 08:08 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Boy to people just hate Bush.

A natural disaster is Bush's fault. People hated Clinton from the other side as well. I remember when he signed Welfare Reform. It was something that republicans were pushing for, but they hated the fact that he agreed with them.

New Orleans was a disater waiting to happen. Bush couldn't have made a difference.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4611820 - 09/02/05 09:17 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
In the New Orleans Times-Picayune (June 8, 2004) Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish stated the following:
Quote:

It appears that the money has been moved in the president?s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that?s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can?t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.







Build your own fucking levees instead of whining that nobody built them for you. How about this. "Nobody locally is happy that they didn't take care of themselves." The danger of the nanny state is that nobody looks out for themselves and expects somebody else to do it for them. LA and NO should have done it, not taxpayers from Wisconsin or Alaska or NY.


--------------------

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4611855 - 09/02/05 09:40 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

yeah, right?! The evactuation of New Orleans should have been the responsibility of State and Local officials! Not Bushs'. FEMA is there, what else do you expect the federal gov't to do?

besides who the fuck builds a city below sea level on a gulf coast with a hurricane season every year? It was gonna get fucked up sooner or later!

And you know, the morons who are shooting at relief helicopters and holding up supply trucks are nothing more than gangster thugs who couldn't be happier that the police are too busy to deal with them! "It's our city now muthafuckas!" They love the chaos because it gives them power and they will do anything they can to keep it! Well when they're done robbing all the Best Buys' and the canned food runs out their gonna be fucked because they refused to cooperate and fix the situation when it first happened

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OfflineJ4S0N
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: 1stimer]
    #4611954 - 09/02/05 10:41 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

This whole disaster really shows that you can NOT count on your government to help you when you need it. This whole event shows how mentally disturbed the average american is. The looters, the police, the authorities.. everyone just seems to be making wrong decisions. Its fucking sad, especially when you contrast with how other countries handle similar disasters.

A view into the future. Don't expect any help from your government. They will however place heavily armed soldiers that are ready to shoot you on your street corner though.

The government is good at taking lives, not saving them. I guess the lesson is, learn to save yourself, stay ahead of the herd


--------------------
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA

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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: J4S0N]
    #4611970 - 09/02/05 10:51 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Three days after 9/11 Bush spoke at the former site of the World Trade Center.

Today and the next few days will prove whether the Administration are fakers and cannot deal with an invulnerable aggressor.

Edited by YidakiMan (09/02/05 12:53 PM)

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4611985 - 09/02/05 11:00 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cb9fl said:
Am I the only person in this world who hasn't completely lost touch with reality? They built the city UNDER FUCKING SEA LEVEL.

Think about it like this.

Say every day I came home and decided to drink some water. But instead of using the perfectly good water coming out of my sink I decided to try filtering shitty toiler water and drinking it. Then one day my filtering didn't work and I got sick from drinking shitty toilet water when I had perfectly good water right next to me. Would you be sad I got sick? No. You would say don't drink shitty toilet water you stupid bastard.

Well don't live UNDER FUCKING SEA LEVEL when there is perfectly good land available.



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4611998 - 09/02/05 11:04 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Zapp,

Do you see the current situation differently because a cat 4 knocked out the levee's versus had there been NO storm and they had been blown out by a terrorist attack?

It would've been a good target considering the refineries in NO.

Should the Feds respond differently to the human suffering going on there now because the residents had notice/opportunity to leave?

I'm curious what the difference is to you between Federal response to natural disasters versus terrorist attack disasters, if any.

I agree NO was a sitting duck just waiting to get flooded out. You'd never catch me living in a flood zone anywhere. I don't even understand why people build and buy in flood zones myself.

Yet, in another post, you say you love to party in NO and that it should be rebuilt. Can NO "alone" afford to design and build a new levee that is leak proof? The city brought in a lot of international tourism dollars and many U.S. residents benefited from being able to vacation there. Lots of U.S. business's held conferences there too.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: Swami]
    #4612084 - 09/02/05 11:30 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Where there ANY caravans of govt buses and trucks and vans to evacuate the destitute BEFORE the hurricane - YES or NO?

This relatively cheap to do with minimal planning. Too easy and forward-thinking?









Why didn't Bush come to New Orleans last week and drive these New Orleans city school buses out?
WHY????

WHY????




WHY????


This is all Bush's fault!





This is all Bush's fault!





This is all Bush's fault!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblehongo
Hmmm

Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 32
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: dr0mni]
    #4612194 - 09/02/05 11:50 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
yeah, right?! The evactuation of New Orleans should have been the responsibility of State and Local officials! Not Bushs'. FEMA is there, what else do you expect the federal gov't to do?





Well, if you see things that way, how do you explain the war he maded in iraq? What the f***k was he doing there? Was that his Fu***ng responsibility? He?s doing so much shit all over the planet, why doesn?t he care for his own place? After all hes just america?s president, not the world?s!
WTF!

Just lots of LOVE and LIGHT for all of you guys. Hongo

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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4612257 - 09/02/05 12:04 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

Swami said:
Where there ANY caravans of govt buses and trucks and vans to evacuate the destitute BEFORE the hurricane - YES or NO?

This relatively cheap to do with minimal planning. Too easy and forward-thinking?




TRUTH TO POWER!






Why didn't Bush come to New Orleans last week and drive these New Orleans city school buses out?
WHY????

WHY????




WHY????


This is all Bush's fault!





This is all Bush's fault!





This is all Bush's fault!




--------------------
Tastes just like chicken

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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: hongo]
    #4612296 - 09/02/05 12:12 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hongo said:
Quote:

dr0mni said:
yeah, right?! The evactuation of New Orleans should have been the responsibility of State and Local officials! Not Bushs'. FEMA is there, what else do you expect the federal gov't to do?





Well, if you see things that way, how do you explain the war he maded in iraq? What the f***k was he doing there? Was that his Fu***ng responsibility? He?s doing so much shit all over the planet, why doesn?t he care for his own place? After all hes just america?s president, not the world?s!
WTF!

Just lots of LOVE and LIGHT for all of you guys. Hongo




No relevance to fu***ng anything at all.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4612375 - 09/02/05 12:36 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Zapp,

Do you see the current situation differently because a cat 4 knocked out the levee's versus had there been NO storm and they had been blown out by a terrorist attack?




Of course. National defense is a federal issue. Hurricane defense is a local issue. Where I live buildings are designed on a hundred year flood model. Septic systems and such are designed under that criteria,i.e. the worst flood expected in a hundred years. We don't build to hurricanes or earthquakes because we don't get them. Building codes are local issues. There is no design for deliberate destructive acts. Only the federal government can have the resources for intelligence and extramural activity. LA and NO, in the end, misspent their money. I'm willing to help them out but I am not willing to accept any blame.

Quote:


It would've been a good target considering the refineries in NO.




So's Houston and New Jersey

Quote:



Should the Feds respond differently to the human suffering going on there now because the residents had notice/opportunity to leave?





No. I'm just not interested in the fingers pointed. The federal government is a great giant bear that can perform great things, they just can't do it in short order. That's a local deal. The local government has really been the chief failure here.

Quote:


I'm curious what the difference is to you between Federal response to natural disasters versus terrorist attack disasters, if any.




In terms of relief, none. In terms of responsibility for hurricanes vs foreign attacks, huge.
Quote:


I agree NO was a sitting duck just waiting to get flooded out. You'd never catch me living in a flood zone anywhere. I don't even understand why people build and buy in flood zones myself.




And yet people live there and in Boca and in Tornado Alley and in San Francisco. Word to the wise, "Don't let your insurance lapse and if you can't get insurance at all, well then, there's a reason for it."

Quote:


Yet, in another post, you say you love to party in NO and that it should be rebuilt. Can NO "alone" afford to design and build a new levee that is leak proof? The city brought in a lot of international tourism dollars and many U.S. residents benefited from being able to vacation there. Lots of U.S. business's held conferences there too.




Hold it, hold it, hold it. Residents benefited from vacationing there? No, NO benefited from residents vacationing there. They should have spent some of that money protecting themselves. I had a great time there for sure and will miss the idea of it even if I probably never would've gone back (my years are running out and there are other things to do, like napping) but no, if they want to build a proper storm proof city they can. If not, well, it was fun while it lasted. And I mean it was really fun. C'est la vie, mon amour.




Just as an aside, you do realize that NO was one of the most corrupt cities in the US and LA one of the most corrupt states. They make NY look circumspect in comparison. It's not a retribution thing just a waste of resources thing and to hear this fucking whiny ass mayor is too much. I won't even dignify the black thing with a response.


--------------------

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Katrina is Bush's Biggest Blunder [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4612410 - 09/02/05 12:46 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you Zapp for answering my questions. We both have been posting a lot on this topic lately and I just wanted to understand where you're coming from a little better.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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