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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Pressure Cooker, Wild Bird Seed

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OfflineVhal
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I think my WBS jars were oversaturated...
    #4604204 - 08/31/05 05:20 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

a few weeks ago i used Docs WBS tek. followed everything except for pressure cooking. dont have a PC at the moment so i had to do the fractional sterilization method. now, 2 weeks after inoculation/incubation, my jars of WBS are emitting an odd smell, kind of a fermentation smell. and the seeds are kinda mushy rather than whole...

any thoughts or suggestions?
really cant afford a pressure cooker, so im trying to make the fractional sterilization method work.


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InvisibleOldSpice
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Re: I think my WBS jars were oversaturated... [Re: Vhal]
    #4604355 - 08/31/05 06:11 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

its not working so buy a PC or just do pf-tek grows


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Offlineblackout
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Re: I think my WBS jars were oversaturated... [Re: OldSpice]
    #4607083 - 09/01/05 05:42 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

How did you go about fractionally sterilizing the jars? What size are they?
The guides say it is to be held at 30mins at 100C on 3 days. Steaming jars for 30mins will certainly not have the grains in the centre of the jars at 100C for 30mins.
I have sucessfully fractionally sterilized in the microwave, the problem with it is moisture loss, which is overcome/calculated by weighing your jars.


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Invisibledog
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Re: I think my WBS jars were oversaturated... [Re: Vhal]
    #4607209 - 09/01/05 08:13 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

It sounds like you have a bacterial contamination. Those jars are a loss. I gave fractional sterilization a try a few years ago and failed miserably. There are those that have used it successfully, however. I believe Anno was one of them; maybe PM him for advice.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: I think my WBS jars were oversaturated... [Re: dog]
    #4607229 - 09/01/05 08:41 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dog said:
I gave fractional sterilization a try a few years ago and failed miserably



How did you go about it?
I am interested in these failures, all mine are working well now that I give it the extra heat up time and insulated cool down.
I am guessing people do not heat long enough. The 30mins is meant to be the entire jar kept at 100C for 30mins. If you look at some guidelines it says 20mins at 15psi is enough to sterilize.


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OfflineVhal
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Re: I think my WBS jars were oversaturated... [Re: blackout]
    #4620366 - 09/04/05 09:20 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

sorry for the delay Blackout, using a friends comp until i finish building my new one.

im using 1 qt. jars, filled about 3/4ths full with the WBS. i stuck all 3 jars in a large pot with a rag in the bottom and filled the pot up so that the water was a little less than half way up the side of the jars. i didnt measure the temperature of the water, but i let it come to a slow steady boil and let it stay in there for about 30-45 minutes. then i let it cool over night (roughly about a 15-24 hour cool down time) and did the process over again, for a total of 3 times.

after all was done, it seemed like the jars lost some moisture. it also appeared that the jars got hot enough to 'cook' the seeds closest to the walls of the jar. cause after i took them out they had become a bit discolored like they had burned a little bit.

the jars i used were sealed with a single layer of tyvek, followed by a hole in the lid that was stuffed with polyfil, and 2 layers of foil over all that during the fractional sterilization.

any suggestions? id really like for this to work since theres no way i can afford a pressure cooker right now.


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OfflineBobo
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Re: I think my WBS jars were oversaturated... [Re: Vhal]
    #4620421 - 09/04/05 09:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

2nd hand stores, man.  :wink:


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Offlineblackout
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Re: I think my WBS jars were oversaturated... [Re: Bobo]
    #4621658 - 09/05/05 04:40 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I can see a few problems. The most important is understanding heat transfer. The rate of heat transfer into the jars is dependent on your temperature difference. If you put a hot can of beer in an icy water it will drop in temperature very quickly but it takes a long time for it to reach the actual temperature of the water.
Same goes for a cold jar sitting in a pan of boiling water, the grain in the very centre of the jar will take a long time to get up to temperature. This can be speeded by shaking the jars. In a pc the steam penetrates the jar resulting in rapid heating.

You need to cover the pot which result in a better steaming of the jars, it will also reduce moisture loss from the jars. Fractional sterilization calls for 30mins at 100C, I doubt the centre of the jars ever even reached 100C in a 30-45 minute boil. (I have done experiments measuring liquid temps in glass jars and was shocked at the inefficiency. Your jars will get to 80C quickly, take a good while to get to 90C and ages to get to 100C)

I would recommend 1/2 pint or 1 pint jars at most and doing a proper steaming for 90 mins. I would then wrap the jars up in a thick blanket to retain the heat overnight. I would do 3 boils at 2 day intervals, the wrapping keeps them hot until the next day so a 1 day interval is pretty pointless, 2 days will give it time to cool and more endospores to germinate.

People will say this is an awful lot of trouble and it is. But you could easily put a kettle element in the bottom of a 50 gallon drum stacked with 100s of jars.

I have fractionally sterilized jars in the microwave with good success. The jars come to a good boil in minutes. THe problem is moisture loss which is calculated by weighing, and added back with high volumes of LC.

This growlog details my microwaving procedure for a large jar
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4586804/an/0/page/0

This one is for smaller jars
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4493850/an/0/page/1



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Edited by blackout (09/05/05 04:44 AM)


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