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OfflineAlobar
A Bucket of Lard

Registered: 01/13/03
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The Social Construction of Race
    #4599995 - 08/30/05 07:21 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

What would Ian F. Lopez say about Rosa Parks, for those in the know?

Otherwise, isn't it ironic that Marshal Mathers has managed to generate a rediculous amount of money by choosing to be black? Considering we live in a white man's world... (And I mean EVERYBODY is a white man, or has to be in order to participate).

Comments please.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4600164 - 08/30/05 07:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

huh?


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OfflineAlobar
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Silversoul]
    #4600216 - 08/30/05 08:07 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, it's like this. I'm a little tipsy, but I'll give it a go.

"Hailing" is a term used in literary theory to describe the instance in which we unconsciously denote our social status by acknowleging another human. We say "professor" when we want to make it clear that you, teacher, are my superior and I am inferior. We say "friend" (not really) when we talk to our peers.

The Social Construction of Race implies that racial boundaries are fabricated??we choose to be white, black, etc. However, many businesses operate under the assumption (unconsciously) that the customer is always white (!). Whiteness is good for business. So though many an employer may truly believe that race is not an issue in the hiring process, he or she will only hire you if you abide by the white male's ideals. This is the point to be debated.

For some reason I don't feel that was clear enough. If not, I'll write more. Though I'm sure nobody's even interested in discussing this.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4600308 - 08/30/05 08:29 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well if the "white mans ideals" consist of politeness, education, well groomed, well spoken english as opposed to rudeness/attitude, poorly spoken english, dishelveled or unkempt clothing (or clothing that doesn't fit), and uneducatedness... then clearly the "white mans' ideals" are unfair and racist!

Yes race is very much a social construct, but as another shroomerite (I can't remember who) said in a recent race discussion something along the lines of "the race problem in America is not really about race, it is about a class struggle. Those who think it's actually about race have been fooled..."

And also, if you haven't noticed, corperations are pandering to the urban/non-white market... almost to an extreme! How many commercials use hip-hop music, urban slang, etc. to sell their product? Is it because they are playing off of white suburbias' sudden obsession with black urban culture? Or is it because the number of non-white consumers is rising since more and more non-whites are becomming educated and getting well paying jobs?

Racial boundaries are becoming more and more blurry in american society than they have been since the nations birth! Of course as long as people look different we will classify them into different groups, but in case you haven't noticed, this country is becomming less and less of "white mans' America".

Businesses want to hire employees who will make it to work, do a good job, look presentable, and act professionally. Studies have shown that a person is more likely to hire someone of their own race! This means that blacks are more likely to hire blacks!

Racism is a two way street. The only difference is that non-whites are allowed to be racist towards whites without being called bigots...

And who the hell is Ian Lopez?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4600347 - 08/30/05 08:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Alobar said:
"Hailing" is a term used in literary theory to describe the instance in which we unconsciously denote our social status by acknowleging another human.  We say "professor" when we want to make it clear that you, teacher, are my superior and I am inferior.  We say "friend" (not really) when we talk to our peers. 




You call a professor a professor, because he is a professor....   
What does this have to do with race....?  :confused:


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineAlobar
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: dr0mni]
    #4600396 - 08/30/05 08:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Darn good points, dr0mni.

Ian Lopez was once a grad student who, being half white and half latino, wrote a paper on The Social Construction of Race. It was very informative, and he does not make the assertion that we live in a white man's world. Literary Theory does. The ideals of work and capitalism and money are the ideals of the white man. By apealling to "urban" culture (another white man name?), the white male businesses are perpetuating consumerism which feeds the white male needs.

I was just wondering how this holds up. More thoughts?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4600415 - 08/30/05 08:54 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think a lot of what we consider to be "acting white" is really just acting formal or professional. I'm white, I act white(or at least within the boundaries of whiteness), but I still have to modify my behavior when I go to work or some formal event.


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OfflineAlobar
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Silversoul]
    #4600430 - 08/30/05 09:00 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

This is largely speculation, but considering "acting white" is just remnants of 19th century business ediquette, do you suppose there is something wrong with our formalities considering the expansion of our business needs? Are our business needs positive in any way regarding "equality" etc.?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4600454 - 08/30/05 09:06 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to when you say "business needs."


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4600483 - 08/30/05 09:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Alobar said:
This is largely speculation, but considering "acting white" is just remnants of 19th century business ediquette,




Do you mean like wearing ties and acting "professional" in an "office" environment"....?
Is this what you mean by "acting white"....?


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineAlobar
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #4600537 - 08/30/05 09:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I suppose I'm leaving it up to you to decide. I'm not sure myself, being that we have known nothing but white male dominance for as long as any one of us can remember.

Are the "white male" practices to which I refer universal human attributes (now we're getting to philosophy!), or would other "races", genders, etc. done things differently?

Which kind of undermines the notion that race is a fabrication, huh? In which case, is "white male dominance" a fabrication that could have easily been replaced by herb smoking, dreadlocked, stereotypes etc etc etc...? (Instead of coffee breather, hungover, angry white businessman (stereotype)?)...


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4600771 - 08/30/05 10:23 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"By apealling to "urban" culture (another white man name?), the white male businesses are perpetuating consumerism which feeds the white male needs."

Capitolism is indeed something that has been exported from Europe since the times of colonialism, but capitolism drives the economy of the entire globe... the globe of which only 8% of the inhabitants are white (remember, 3 billion asians make up about 50% of the earths population).

The driving needs are not "white man" needs, they are the needs of the super-wealthy upperclass. The CEOs of corperations. The world leaders. Viacom. Enron. Coca Cola. The Federal Gov't.

Like I said before, this is a CLASS struggle! Capitolism is a system designed to keep those in power where they are by making everyone else dependent on the system, REGARDLESS of the race of those on the top and bottom of the socio-economic pyramid.

By blaming the "white man" for the oppression of the poor brown people you are missing the essence of the struggle for true equality! This ignorance and scapegoating only makes the powers that be even stronger in their control over the american people and thier minds. This isn't an issue of blacks vs. whites. It's a struggle of the "haves" vs. the "have-nots"!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4600855 - 08/30/05 10:38 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"we have known nothing but white male dominance for as long as any one of us can remember"

Let's leave race out of it. Tyrannical people come in all colors. Idi Amin was black, Joseph Stalin was Russian, Osama Bin Laden is Arabic, Saddam Hussein is Iraqi, Kim Jung Il is Korean and China is populated by a vast host of repressive government motherfuckers who are all Chinese. Look at the world around you with realism. The "white man" is not the main source of evil. It is intolerance and hate.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4602135 - 08/31/05 03:21 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"we choose to be white, black, etc."

if it's a social construction, then other people choose.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineAlobar
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4602929 - 08/31/05 11:13 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Good points, everyone. I feel I have gathered enough information to form a stance in class... "Class Struggle" is a good point. I have somehow warped Lopez's words, please do not mistake what I say for what Lopez has written. Off to class, thanks again, everyone! And goodbye to Alobar for good!


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Alobar]
    #4602988 - 08/31/05 11:38 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

you know, know that I think about it, my friend is taking some class about race and I vaguely remember the name Lopez on the required book... what is the name of the book and class you are taking?

I'm glad we could help!

Of course there is a very real way that our race makes us experiance our society and culture. I don't mean to downplay that too much, but I really get pissed about reverse discrimination, and the blaming of whites for the socio-economic oppression of minorities... anti-white racism is fucking hypocrisy...


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: The Social Construction of Race [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4603249 - 08/31/05 12:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Let's leave race out of it. Tyrannical people come in all colors. Idi Amin was black, Joseph Stalin was Russian, Osama Bin Laden is Arabic, Saddam Hussein is Iraqi, Kim Jung Il is Korean and China is populated by a vast host of repressive government motherfuckers who are all Chinese. Look at the world around you with realism. The "white man" is not the main source of evil. It is intolerance and hate.




interesting argument. the same could be applied to feminism.

intolerance and hate- how does one circumvent these things?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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