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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: I'm sorry. You see, I am alergic to snuggle fresh fabric softeners and have been suffering from a severe adverse reaction I get to them. Someone must have snuck one into my dryer.
ok, take care of yourself
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
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Paradigm said: It's certainly legitimate to call evolution into question, just as it's legitimate to call the theory of relativity, or the theory of gravity, or quantum field theory, or probability theory, or even music theory into question. After all, they're all just theories. I'd say that evolution is on par with music theory, in that it is the theory on which the field it involves is based. Just as music theory is central to music, so too is evolution central to biology. Without evolution, biology does not make sense.
medicine, which is a large part of biology, has nothing to do with evolution. Medicine does not care how something became, as long as it understands how it is working, why, and how to fix it.
You have just explained why medicine is not biology.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Posts: 4,033
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Silversoul]
#4585421 - 08/26/05 08:36 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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how do you call the part of biology that researches human body?
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Medicine is really just trial and error; not much knowledge of the biological evolution is needed when you're mostly just testing variations of tried and true previous medicines on mice.
Medicine is ancient, and was developed before humans even had any concept of the earth's rotation around the sun, or the functions of individual internal organs of the body. Chances are it just started out with them stumbling on some foods that also, they discovered, helped their health. This developed over thousands of years, and when chemistry came along and we could see the molecules responsible, we could then make variations on these molecules in a Shulgin-esque way, test them out and seeing how different variations of medicines affected diseases and health problems. Now that we have more knowledge, we can deviate from this more and create medicines not present in nature, but this still only requires knowledge of the present human body, not the evolution of it.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Posts: 4,033
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Ravus]
#4585477 - 08/26/05 08:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Modern medicide is based on scientific knowledge, not on simple trial and error. What you are refering to is peoples medicine, which is an alternative to "modern medicine". Modern medicine starts with research, and is built on top of theorethical knowledge.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Modern medicine is to "people's medicine" as chemistry is to alchemy. Willow's bark, for example, was once used for easing pains and aches and reducing fevers; from this, aspirin was later synthesized.
And indeed much modern medicine is based on theoretical knowledge, but as I said in my last sentence, "Now that we have more knowledge, we can deviate from this more and create medicines not present in nature, but this still only requires knowledge of the present human body, not the evolution of it."
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Silversoul]
#4586022 - 08/26/05 11:45 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said: After all, they're all just theories.
*Just* theories?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
Paradigm said: After all, they're all just theories.
*Just* theories?
Yes, in the same sense that evolution is *just* a theory.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Ravus]
#4586773 - 08/27/05 06:53 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: Modern medicine is to "people's medicine" as chemistry is to alchemy. Willow's bark, for example, was once used for easing pains and aches and reducing fevers; from this, aspirin was later synthesized.
And indeed much modern medicine is based on theoretical knowledge, but as I said in my last sentence, "Now that we have more knowledge, we can deviate from this more and create medicines not present in nature, but this still only requires knowledge of the present human body, not the evolution of it."
Every science has its limits. Chemistry does not care what atoms are and how they came into existence, it only cares how to manipulate them and how they act. Chemistry is the psychology of atoms. In the same way medicie does not care of origins of humans, it deals what is here and now.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
Ravus said: Modern medicine is to "people's medicine" as chemistry is to alchemy. Willow's bark, for example, was once used for easing pains and aches and reducing fevers; from this, aspirin was later synthesized.
And indeed much modern medicine is based on theoretical knowledge, but as I said in my last sentence, "Now that we have more knowledge, we can deviate from this more and create medicines not present in nature, but this still only requires knowledge of the present human body, not the evolution of it."
Every science has its limits. Chemistry does not care what atoms are and how they came into existence, it only cares how to manipulate them and how they act. Chemistry is the psychology of atoms. In the same way medicie does not care of origins of humans, it deals what is here and now.
Yes, chemistry does not care about what atoms are or how they came about because that is not what it studies. That is the field of quantum mechanics. Similarly, medicine does not care about the origin of humans because that is not what it studies. Science is divided into different fields of study with specific parameters. What's your point? Chemists may not concern themselves with what atoms are, but their discipline benefits from the those scientists who do. Similarly, doctors may not concern themselves with our knowledge of biology, but their discipline is most certainly a beneficiary of such knowledge.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Silversoul]
#4586814 - 08/27/05 07:47 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Great points, Paradigm, as usual. But I must disagree with an earlier statement of yours. Being apes does make us monkeys. (and sometimes monkeys of us as well )
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Le_Canard]
#4586817 - 08/27/05 07:49 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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ToiletDuk said: Great points, Paradigm, as usual. But I must disagree with an earlier statement of yours. Being apes does make us monkeys. (and sometimes monkeys of us as well )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey
"Because of their similarity to monkeys, apes such as chimpanzees and gibbons are sometimes incorrectly called monkeys."
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Silversoul]
#4586824 - 08/27/05 07:58 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wasn't talking about taxonomy, my friend. It was something of a joke, actually. I will admit it's a bit unfair to the monkeys to classify them with the ill-tempered Homo Sap.. God help us if you and Phred ever get into an argument....
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Silversoul]
#4586828 - 08/27/05 08:03 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
Ravus said: Modern medicine is to "people's medicine" as chemistry is to alchemy. Willow's bark, for example, was once used for easing pains and aches and reducing fevers; from this, aspirin was later synthesized.
And indeed much modern medicine is based on theoretical knowledge, but as I said in my last sentence, "Now that we have more knowledge, we can deviate from this more and create medicines not present in nature, but this still only requires knowledge of the present human body, not the evolution of it."
Every science has its limits. Chemistry does not care what atoms are and how they came into existence, it only cares how to manipulate them and how they act. Chemistry is the psychology of atoms. In the same way medicie does not care of origins of humans, it deals what is here and now.
Yes, chemistry does not care about what atoms are or how they came about because that is not what it studies. That is the field of quantum mechanics. Similarly, medicine does not care about the origin of humans because that is not what it studies. Science is divided into different fields of study with specific parameters. What's your point? Chemists may not concern themselves with what atoms are, but their discipline benefits from the those scientists who do. Similarly, doctors may not concern themselves with our knowledge of biology, but their discipline is most certainly a beneficiary of such knowledge.
someones said that all biology does not make any sense without evolution. I said large parts of biology do not depend on the idea of evolution. That's my point
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: someones said that all biology does not make any sense without evolution. I said large parts of biology do not depend on the idea of evolution. That's my point
Then you have no point. Medicine is not a part of biology. It benefits from advances in biology, but it is a separate field of study.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Silversoul]
#4586834 - 08/27/05 08:07 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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biology deals with everything that is alive, are humans not alive?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: biology deals with everything that is alive, are humans not alive?
If that were the definition of biology, then it would encompass psychology, sociology, anthropology, economics, history, and numerous other fields that are clearly outside of what any rational person would consider to be biology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology
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Biology is the study of life. It is concerned with the characteristics and behaviors of organisms, how species and individuals come into existence, and the interactions they have with each other and with the environment.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,062
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Silversoul]
#4586852 - 08/27/05 08:22 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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real science includes all the branches real monkeys know you need that to really swing (and some infinitives must be split)
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Monkeys also like to fling poo at other monkeys. The human monkeys like to fling poo of a different sort at each other. Coincidence? I think not!
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Humans = Monkeys? [Re: Le_Canard]
#4586857 - 08/27/05 08:27 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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/me flings poo at ToiletDuk
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