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OfflineFospher
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True persona and drug use
    #4577721 - 08/25/05 04:09 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You often hear people say "I dont use drugs or drink because I always want to be in control of my true personality. Whenever someone drinks or uses a certain drug, they are no longer themselves". These people also often judge others for using a drug as an escape.

Now, certain people really can maintain their true personality without the use of a substance with either a self-control method (exercise/meditation/whatever) or just an extrovertive innate mindset. Some, however, are very introvertive, conceited, self-concsious, but with the use of a certain drug, it brings out a whole different person. But who's to say which person's "real" and which one isn't? If a person can project and put together their ideas clearly to others with the use of a substance, and has trouble doing so sober, wouldnt the influenced persona be the real deal, considering you can get to know the person much better? Isnt our subconscious our true self?

I say fuck your superego, self-enhancement isnt escapism.

:sonar:


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OfflineMJF
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Fospher]
    #4577728 - 08/25/05 04:13 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I like this post.

But how long and how often can someone keep up this enhanced state before having a bad affect on all of the possible persons a person could be.

it seems to me you are suggesting staying in a drug induced state for a long time..."wouldnt the influenced persona be the real deal, considering you can get to know the person much better"


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OfflineFospher
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: MJF]
    #4577747 - 08/25/05 04:21 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MJF said:
it seems to me you are suggesting staying in a drug induced state for a long time..."wouldnt the influenced persona be the real deal, considering you can get to know the person much better"




Let me rephrase that.

At social gatherings of any sort, drug use is a path in which we can dig into the subconcious of a person helping the person convey their thought. Once that state is reached, a person can reenact the thought process without. Some people can put together ideas, some people are in need of a handicap.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Fospher]
    #4577772 - 08/25/05 04:34 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

two aspects of control are relavent:

1) we do steer the collection of ideas speech and action that our personality becomes.
2) we also filter consciously what comes out of the collection that has amassed.

the first is a big job, while getting stoned is a small thing in comparison, it is about ethics, morality, personal growth etc.

the second is a problem if you have gotten into a lot of shitty things: taking alcohol or a drug will reduce the filter, and collected shitty stuff can pour out.

if your path has been one of enlightenment, what pours out will be less embarrassing.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4577784 - 08/25/05 04:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i don't understand that second aspec


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: MJF]
    #4577788 - 08/25/05 04:50 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

an example of that would be when you really want to fight about something but you keep quiet and your arms down because it is a bad idea.

control cancels impulse
impulse comes from the collection in the personality.

if you are inebriated you do not filter this type of thing.

if you are on a path of "purity" this type of shitty impulse would not want to emerge.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4577800 - 08/25/05 04:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

oh ok thanks


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OfflineFospher
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4577818 - 08/25/05 05:09 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
control cancels impulse
impulse comes from the collection in the personality.

if you are inebriated you do not filter this type of thing.

if you are on a path of "purity" this type of shitty impulse would not want to emerge.




Thanks for replying, and I agree with your point of view. Self-control and awareness are important on a path of knowing who you truly are. However, control at all times makes you a control freak, and sometimes it's good to just let go.

I'm playing devil's advocate on and off here, I lurk here quite a bit as well, and want to hear your guys' opinions.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Fospher]
    #4577824 - 08/25/05 05:13 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yeah being in control all the time would be kind of shitty.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: MJF]
    #4577913 - 08/25/05 07:37 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

just letting go is a great honor and pleasure, and when personality has been cultivated it really does no harm.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4578158 - 08/25/05 10:51 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That's pretty interesting. One thing I have taken note of though;
I did speed a coupla times; when I took that first hit I just started crying, it was like all my emotions had turned to stone and taking that first hit released it all, like I was no longer living my life. But I don't do speed I only did it like 3 times. Its just that it was I was like honey that had crystalised and I just needed something to melt away the crystalised ego.
Also I can go pretty crazy when the mood strikes me, if I'm giddy from heatstroke or have been awake for more than a day or just have a hangover and don't give a shit what everyone thinks; the reigns having been loosed.
With shrooms I can go totally ballistic in a nonviolent way; sometimes I don't need drugs to be in this condition of extroversion and liberty, but I am really a crabby, hermetic SOB by nature although not in the calloused sense. My point is the drug does not change the true you, at least not in my case; it just brings me out of my shell; and its THIS SHELL, which is the EGO, which is considered the SELF?
This is just a SHELL and should not be confused with the SELF.
The free spirit inside you. What people consider your personality is just the control mechanism, the ego. That really is not you, and in most cases whilst trying to keep your defences up this ego is actually just supressing the true self, and sometimes is far stronger than the true self that because of yielding to external negativity from others starts doing so from one'self,' your ego, the slavedriver.
Of course your true self can decide to put the ego to use and use the reigns properly.... Interesting, regarding free will and determenism...
Question; if its all determined, fine; but what if we feel free;
feeling free, question; is that determined or perhaps that is a choice, feeling truly free and not giving a shit if everything IS determined; that feeling of freedom; can that be determined? And is determinism such a bad thing, then?


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OfflineFospher
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4578756 - 08/25/05 02:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the second is a problem if you have gotten into a lot of shitty things: taking alcohol or a drug will reduce the filter, and collected shitty stuff can pour out.




Also please note that I am not saying that whenever someone gets wasted or uses a substance their true personality comes out, but whenver someone can formulate their thoughts properly while impaired on a certain drug, that might be their true self. That true self might only have potential of coming out occasionally when the substance is presented.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Fospher]
    #4578914 - 08/25/05 02:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

a tangled web of jewels will pour out of a drunken poet's mouth if that's what he's been collecting.
other drunken poets might not be as good.
it depends on what they feed their minds, their hearts, their souls.

so two kinds of control
1. one that cultivates in general and in advance - diet, route maps - ethics.
2. and one that can filter in the moment.

when #2 is broken, you hope that #1 had been used or clear the floor - rumble.


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OfflineShampioenier
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4586626 - 08/27/05 05:21 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thats why shrooms are great. I think it opens up your heart to yourself again. Its very important i think if everyone ate shrooms and collect the right spiritual messages and repeat them many times while on mushrooms, well theres lots of people doing that.
Filtering in the moment; yes thats good, the problem is then that all the gunk sticks to the filter (the ego), although your true self can get all that spiritual tea, if you can call it that. Of course then you have to clean out the filter if you want to make another batch of tea. If you don't clean out the filter, heck, I don't know what could happen.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Shampioenier]
    #4586762 - 08/27/05 08:30 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I find that when comming down from psychedelics or E, it's a very good time to re-programme your bio-computer. Your ego is still out of the way or in a receptive mood and will not attempt to block incomming data. So having a plan to put in more postive ideas about life (affirmations, a book or just thinking good thoughts) can change things that would much longer periods of hard work otherwise. That is, I believe, why some can stop drinking or such after an intense psychedelic experience. :mushroom2:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Icelander]
    #4586825 - 08/27/05 09:59 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That is, I believe, why some can stop drinking or such after an intense psychedelic experience.

I use that egoless time to reprogram myself to stop doing psychedelics.  :thumbup:


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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Swami]
    #4586838 - 08/27/05 10:09 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
That is, I believe, why some can stop drinking or such after an intense psychedelic experience.

I use that egoless time to reprogram myself to stop doing psychedelics.  :thumbup:




Why are you guilty?  The way you attack people so often and the way you say you reprogram yourself to not do psychedelics after taking them suggests to me you have feelings of guilt.  Don't be guilty,  you are innocent.  If you are guilty of anything, it is how you go on this board and lead people astray.  You often say you are trying to help but you are really trying to tear people down, because you feel guilty.  You will probably think I'm wrong.


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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Fospher]
    #4586842 - 08/27/05 10:15 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Swami, you can be good. It just seems that sometimes you try to be good so much that it becomes the opposite of it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: Swami]
    #4586900 - 08/27/05 11:11 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
That is, I believe, why some can stop drinking or such after an intense psychedelic experience.

I use that egoless time to reprogram myself to stop doing psychedelics.  :thumbup:




Whatever.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: True persona and drug use [Re: sox24]
    #4586902 - 08/27/05 11:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

sox24 said:
Swami, you can be good.  It just seems that sometimes you try to be good so much that it becomes the opposite of it.




WTF! :adam1975:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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