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OfflineMJF
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cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence?
    #4577294 - 08/25/05 01:40 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.glbtq.com/arts/drag_queens.html

i was just reading that...

and why would some Native american cultures and contemporary India regard drag-queens with religious reverence? Does anyone know the reason to this?


Edited by MJF (08/25/05 02:27 AM)


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: female impersonators regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: MJF]
    #4577350 - 08/25/05 01:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Because they are both genders, androgyns. 

This might mean they have achieved a sort of internal balance between both hemispheres of the brain. Or energy channels, ida & pingala spiralling in sync with shushumna.

I've noticed that many traditional shamans were regarded as pretty queer and acted very feminine. Same goes for some gurus.

The truth of it I dunno.

sorry if this doesnt make sense... I should get some sleep, it's eight in the morning.  :blush:


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OfflineMJF
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Re: female impersonators regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: dorkus]
    #4577382 - 08/25/05 02:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

no that makes sense.

thats interesting "that many traditional shamans were regarded as pretty queer and acted very feminine." do you know of any off hand?


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: female impersonators regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: MJF]
    #4577449 - 08/25/05 02:30 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No, but I've always been interested in Native American cultures, and remember having read this a long time ago.

Also read it a couple of years ago. Might have been in Breaking open the Head or some other book on shamanism.

If you study hindu and buddhist art, you'll see that the feminine aspects are highly emphasized. I'll search my picture folder and post an example.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: female impersonators regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: dorkus]
    #4577463 - 08/25/05 02:33 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)



This is Shiva.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: female impersonators regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: dorkus]
    #4577531 - 08/25/05 02:50 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Is Shiva the goddess of destruction...or am i way off there?


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: female impersonators regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: MJF]
    #4577610 - 08/25/05 03:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Shiva is the God of Destruction and Creation. Shakti is the Goddess.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: dorkus]
    #4577664 - 08/25/05 03:38 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

oh ok. cool.


Edited by MJF (08/25/05 03:40 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: MJF]
    #4577680 - 08/25/05 03:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

dressing radically differently
(in a different role - like an actor)
is like being born in another body
alarming yet refreshing in a way, with an edge of kindness perhaps


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OfflineMJF
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4577691 - 08/25/05 03:54 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yeah i was thinking shocking...and going along with a certain attitude can really draw the attention....and if done the right way could probably send out spiritual vibes to people


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: MJF]
    #4579570 - 08/25/05 03:49 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It's about manifesting wholeness in its deeper, non-sexual meaning.

"Jesus said to them: When you make the two one, and when you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner and the above as the below, and when you make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male will not be male and the female (not) be female...then shall you enter [the Kingdom]."

Logia 22, lines 24-34 The Gospel According to Thomas


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4580892 - 08/25/05 08:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, I learned about that in my intro to anthropology class. It's actually quite prevalent in cultures around the globe. In Samoa they are called Fafafinis. They are viewed as divine because they are a harmony of masculine strenth and power, and feminine love and empathy.

They are highly valued members of the community because they can take care of children, do womens housework, and still do hard work out in the fields.

Although, in the documentary about the phenomenon, the Fafafinis of Samoa have been greatly influenced by western culture, and nowadays are practically indistinguishable from western-style drag queens.

One older Fafafini was interviewed. He was just a regular old fat guy that wore a skirt, but didn't put on make up and panties and a bra or act like a fag. "Why the hell are you doing that? You are acting like a fool!" he said about the new Fafafinis. The old Fafafinis didn't go out of their way to look like females beyond wearing womens cloths, shaving, and speaking in soft voices.

Something that was interesting was that the Fafafinis don't sleep with other Fafafinis or women, because that would be like two lesbians, and that is weird in their culture. They only sleep with straight men. And yes, a man can sleep with a Fafafini and not be gay, because a Fafafini is NOT a man, she is a WOMAN in a mans body!

Learning about third genders can be very confusing when you live in a culture that only has two genders. Other guys in my class were like "What do you mean their not gay? Their guys having sex with other guys! That makes them gay!" They could not, in their mind, separate biological-sex and cultural-gender.

Good topic to bring up!


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4580908 - 08/25/05 08:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

They are highly valued members of the community because they can take care of children, do womens housework, and still do hard work out in the fields.




Hmm...I wonder why this doesn't work for single working mothers in our culture. :confused:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: Veritas]
    #4580926 - 08/25/05 08:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I came to this thread looking for some fashion tips - nevermind...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: Swami]
    #4580934 - 08/25/05 08:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I really like the fur you're wearing in your avatar.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: Icelander]
    #4580970 - 08/25/05 08:34 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It is all part of the "kinder, gentler Swami persona", quite unlike the mean "flipping you off" avatar that some angry people display.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: Swami]
    #4580980 - 08/25/05 08:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Well I had noticed that I was just a tad to lovey dovey. I needed to balance things out so I wouldn't be taken advantage of.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMJF
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: Swami]
    #4580981 - 08/25/05 08:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

the fluffy side sounds nice :rasta:


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: Veritas]
    #4581908 - 08/26/05 12:06 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

They are highly valued members of the community because they can take care of children, do womens housework, and still do hard work out in the fields.




Hmm...I wonder why this doesn't work for single working mothers in our culture. :confused:




because.... um... yeah well why isn't it respectable for a guy to act feminine and pretend he's a girl in our culture?  ah.. touche!

Seriously though, it probably has something to do with the fact that their is no real family oriented community in our culture anymore. We keep our distance from our neighbors, our family, and even the mothers of our children.

Good observation!


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: cross-dressing regarded w/ religious reverence? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4581922 - 08/26/05 12:08 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

oh, and it may also have something to do with the fact that after Women's Liberation, it's EXPECTED that a woman should be able to be independent...


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