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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
higher consciousness... how do you handle it?
    #4576180 - 08/24/05 09:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Back when i was a teenager and first started indulging in drugs, i had a hard time coming to grips with my experiences while under the influence. The first "mind-expanding" drug i used was cannabis. It was a lot of fun until one day i got really, really high by accident from eating too much of it. I had what you could call my first bad trip. It was at that point that i realized that higher consciousness wasn't just a slightly different state of mind but a completely strange and unusual place you could visit, where you could be confronted at any time with weird, unexpected, and sometimes frightful thoughts.

I remember one evening in particular when i was smoking some potent bud with a good friend. We smoked so much that i had to refuse smoking any more because i was so high. I felt like i was going to either leave this dimension permenantly or die, or both. I truly thought i was no longer on Earth and in a another world completely. I began thinking about how cannabis was a fairly mild drug compared to LSD and mushrooms, and i remember thinking to myself, "if pot can do this to a person, what the hell does acid do!?" I couldn't imagine retaining control of my sanity on a more powerful dose of anything.

After a few years of regular smoking, however, i got more and more comfortable with being really high. It was like making friends with a person i was intially distrustful of. I eventually went on to try a whole slew of drugs, including our beloved shroomies. But to this day i simply can't handle a moderately high dose of any drug. I usually feel like i'm losing control of my thoughts and thus also my actions and don't like it at all.

So, is there some key to staying calm while in the worlds of higher consciousness? How do YOU handle it? Have you always been able to handle your drugs or did you learn through bad trips?


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: moog]
    #4576252 - 08/24/05 09:27 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

How do YOU handle it?



having been burned, i only push doses higher a little bit at a time, and take care not to go beyond my comfort zone.  i have psychological limits!  it seems unwise to disregard that.  if someone else can eat 7g dry without flinching, good for them, but dose size is not the source of my self-esteem.

sadly, penis size is!  :undecided:


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: moog]
    #4576270 - 08/24/05 09:31 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

To be honest, I still struggle with some of the implications of my more extensive drug experiences, especially those under the grip of Salvia D.

How do I handle this? It isn't hard. I know that there are many things which I do not yet know, or do not yet understand. Such knowledge can't bother me, because what I know is a mere pinpoint in the vast universe of what I don't know. If I let it bother me, I think it would just be too overwhelming.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: moog]
    #4576283 - 08/24/05 09:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Really good questions.

First I think that high doses of pot are as powerfull as most other psychedelics.

Losing control is common to all of my committed dose tripping. That's just what happens when the egoic cultural personality structure is overwhelmed. That little sucker thinks it's you and thinks that "you" just make a big mistake and are now going to die. The thing to do is let go and die. I find this happens automatically at some point. Some other part of me does this. It is a fucking scary ride, especially those first times. You ego gets stronger with repeated experiences and learns to let go eaiser. It starts to become a healthy guardian instead of a despotic guard. Now sometimes I get so high that I just start to dream and my subconscious comes roaring out. Then it's really wierd and hard to remember later, just like dreams are.


Now why would you do this? For me it helps me with the challenges of  my daily life. I am less scared of life because my little ego is not so paranoid about everything and knows how to let go a little when things get scary.

Remember the Universe asks just one question of you. "How much can you take". :mushroom2: :smile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Icelander]
    #4576327 - 08/24/05 09:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I has a few freaky sort of negativwe experiences on ultra high psychedelic doses. At each level above the previous one I would be confronted with aspects of self that I did not want to know about. So, when I encountered this I either accepted or eliminated the aspect using meditation and self therapy. Knowing the self is the key to accepting massive doses of psychedelics and understanding them. One eventually learns to let go of self and flow with the stream of conciousness. The highest dose of LSD I ever took was about 1700mcgs. It was sort of like dying at first....but one must let go and abandon themselves to the experience.

"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That?s control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He let?s go. That?s abandon."


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4576338 - 08/24/05 09:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think that few would know more about this than you. :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Icelander]
    #4576381 - 08/24/05 10:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

All anyone has to do is keep taking massive psychedelic doses...you have to adapt in order to endure it. The funny thing is after hitting the upper dose limit it will top out. On acid about 1100mcgs is no different than 1700. 1700 might last a little longer. On shrooms 10-12grams seems to be in this range. Ayahuasca has a similar limit as well. Mescaline just starts making you feel sick after ingesting a gram so it is self limiting as well. DMT is another matter, but after a certain point I understand you simply black out. I have only had 3 DMT experiences so I am not as familiar with it. Salvia I am still new too and once you get into the doses that Trendal is discussing you get reluctant to go farther as I don't know where it becomes unhealthy. Most of these things are safe to experiment with and at various times in my life I have had near unlimited access to them. The recent drug they posted a warning about...the dragonfly stuff. It is supposed to last 3 days...that could be an awesome assistance to a vision quest. Anyone ever try it?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4576407 - 08/24/05 10:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have done 1200 mcgs. I saw so much nasty stuff in the friends I was doing it with. I dropped them completely and didn't trip for 2 years. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Icelander]
    #4576503 - 08/24/05 10:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Hopefully you did it again in a proper setting?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4576515 - 08/24/05 10:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Salvia definitely follows your examples of "limits" for psychedelics. There's a dose you get to (most people call it the "breakthrough" dose) where any further increases in dose will not significantly increase the depth, or extent, of the experience. Once you get "there", it seems you can't get any farther. If you go too far, you simply black out or, if you do have an experience, are completely unable to remember any of it afterwords.

It is those breakthrough experiences (and their implications) that I am still struggling with.


--------------------
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OfflineSerioOria
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Registered: 07/23/05
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: trendal]
    #4576663 - 08/24/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i let go, theres not that much here to hold on to anyway

its a wonderful thing when i do let go, i love it


--------------------
Live every day like it is your first
or
Live every day like it is your last
My ArT!!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: SerioOria]
    #4577695 - 08/25/05 03:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

when
i can't handle it
i seek "releasing" and
i follow the sense of breath


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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4578048 - 08/25/05 09:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Wow it sounds like you and Icelander both have some hardcore experiences under your belts. I guess with age you tend to deal with it better too.

I guess i just have a problem with letting go, and losing control. It's something i'm still trying to deal with. The ego is strange. I know, intellectually, that there's more to me than "me" yet at the peak of the experience when it comes time to explore that, the ego's defenses go up automatically.

And here i was considering experimenting with salvia, but i don't think i could handle anything that intense, even just for 5 or 10 minutes.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4578130 - 08/25/05 10:31 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Hopefully you did it again in a proper setting?




No I didn't. I started using plants almost exclusively in my next incarnation. Cactus and Mushrooms. I have only recently returned to Learys favorite.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: trendal]
    #4578153 - 08/25/05 10:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Salvia definitely follows your examples of "limits" for psychedelics. There's a dose you get to (most people call it the "breakthrough" dose) where any further increases in dose will not significantly increase the depth, or extent, of the experience. Once you get "there", it seems you can't get any farther. If you go too far, you simply black out or, if you do have an experience, are completely unable to remember any of it afterwords.

It is those breakthrough experiences (and their implications) that I am still struggling with.




This brings up an interesting question. I have a speculation on the blackout phase or where you remember nothing. I have also had similar experience on high dose mushrooms. I felt like I was dreaming or in a dream. While it was happening I was like in a dream, similar to salvia in the sense that the world was gone. As soon as I started to come down everything became real again and the awesome things I witnessed began to fade rapidly just as in a dream upon awakening. My guess is that I fully entered the subconscious realm and wasn't able to utilize my conscious self in experiencing the trip. All of a sudden I snapped back into consciousness on a mountain side and realized that I had come up to vision quest and that the trip was ending. I do remember the vision comming on at the onset the hallucinations were some of the most powerfull I have had and were somewhat salvia like. These were much better shrooms than I had been using and I was only using 6 grams. I was blown into my subconscious in just a flash. It was very strange. I felt so fine afterwards though. And a new level of change began in my life at that time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: moog]
    #4578168 - 08/25/05 10:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
Wow it sounds like you and Icelander both have some hardcore experiences under your belts. I guess with age you tend to deal with it better too.

I guess i just have a problem with letting go, and losing control. It's something I'm still trying to deal with. The ego is strange. I know, intellectually, that there's more to me than "me" yet at the peak of the experience when it comes time to explore that, the ego's defenses go up automatically.

And here i was considering experimenting with salvia, but i don't think i could handle anything that intense, even just for 5 or 10 minutes.




We all have a problem with letting go. If not on the trip than somewhere else in our lives. It's all good. You are right about the ego defenses going up automatically. Just like they do in daily life, right. :grin: An unhealthy/unskillful ego structure is petty, afraid, and very easy to predict because it only has one approach to every situation. It only has one idea about how to handle the many experiences of life.  A great man (Moshe Feldenkrais) said. "If you have many ideas, you will have good ideas."

It doesn't matter how much psychedelics you can ingest, some are much more sensitive than others.( I am very slow and think headed, so it takes a lot sometimes for me) It's how much you experience that counts.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: moog]
    #4578630 - 08/25/05 01:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:


And here i was considering experimenting with salvia, but i don't think i could handle anything that intense, even just for 5 or 10 minutes.




Maybe Salvia might be a good thing. I'm like you in the fact that the thought of losing control scares me since most of the time my thoughts go to the dark side of self-analysis on mushrooms, and the thought of it lasting for a few hours doesn't help. But Salvia for me is less scary than mushrooms because it does last for such a short time and it doesn't give me a chance to color the experience with my worrying since it comes on so quick. My trips on Salvia have been strange, but not polluted with negative thoughts, I just feel the anticipation before I smoke and not the anxiety. You will have to decide, but just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: Icelander]
    #4578712 - 08/25/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i]Now sometimes I get so high that I just start to dream and my subconscious comes roaring out.

This happened to me on Ayahuasca to some extent. I was with a Shaman, but as it was my first experience I didn't really know how to approach it. After I drank I just wanted to lie down and sleep. The only way to describe where it took me was to the inner core of me and it wasn't a pretty sight. I WAS able to pull up the memory of drinking, but only for a while and then it was off to the depths of me. I never knew the Shaman was there or even had that thought at all. It was really heavy.

The next night I drank again and told myself that I would stay more focused on the Shaman and try to be more "aware". It worked to a certain extent because even though I went back to finish of some unfinished work, I was more coherent and finally got the message that was being imparted to me. And the weird thing was that as soon as I "got it" I woke up straight. It was very cool.

In "The Writings of Black Elk" he says a warrior must have courage, patience, endurance and alertness. I remembered the alertness part before I drank the second time and I think that going into it with that thought helped a lot.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: VirgilKane]
    #4578739 - 08/25/05 02:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think this is right on. On that experience I was quite scared as it was my first high dose alone on that mountain. I knew there was alot of mountain lions around and it had taken me a year to get the courage up to do it. My intent was just to get up there and swollow them. So I didn't have strong intent to be aware. It was easy then to go unconscious. The interesting thing is that it was one of my most beneficial experiences.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: higher consciousness... how do you handle it? [Re: moog]
    #4578764 - 08/25/05 02:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

A drugged mind does not equal higher consciousness.

Next.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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