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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone
    #4575027 - 08/24/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

If that happened and the masses could get ahold of LSD, psilocybin, etc. it would almost be inevitable that they would become illegal again. This is something Aldous Huxley and Humphry Osmond understood while Timothy Leary and Ken Kesey did not. The latter two can be held responsible for getting psychedelics placed as Schedule I substances by promoting and distributing the drugs to the masses. As a result alot people who were irresponsible or could not handle LSD were taking it and freaking out, making it look dangerous and fueled a movement to criminalize the drug. The bigger and more unfiltered the crowd the more dumb people and at risk individuals will cause problems.

My solution is simply to move psychedlics from Schedule I to where they can be used in scientific study or psychotherapy, or prescribed to sound individuals in a safe and positive setting, but not sold on the street without prescription. This was how it was through the fifties to the early sixties when the most progress was made and least obstacles encountered.

If some small groups or psychonauts or experienced ravers get some through the back door, that's ok, just as long as people who don't know what they are doing cannot get access to psychedelics easily.

Not only is this the best policy, but probobly the only possible scenario for psychedelic chemicals and plants to be used without the threat of jail time. Also if we had pharmacuetical grade LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, 2-cb, etc, there would much less a problem with (and market for) dealers selling dubious product like research chemicals claiming it to be LSD, or "excstacy" cut with meth and caffiene, or "excstacy" that IS meth or caffience.

That is my thought.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4576345 - 08/24/05 07:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

good point, and theres really not a thing i can say against it because its true, theres always a bunch of idiots that'll take it and drive around. But, even if it were legalized for medical usage, i think it would be much easier to find it so legal or not, people if they want something find it anyway.


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: PreparationH]
    #4584959 - 08/26/05 06:27 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Ending the war on drugs would make drugs safer than they are now, and the government could save a lot of money by ending the war on drugs.


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Invisibletak
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: LSDempire]
    #4587673 - 08/27/05 02:33 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

not as much money as they could make keeping them illegal


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: tak]
    #4587758 - 08/27/05 03:02 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Well, the people who are making the money are the prisons, the cops, and the dealers. Technically the FEDERAL government is not making money from the war on drugs, but their are many people lower down the lader that are.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlinenycomyco
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4592653 - 08/28/05 09:22 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

don't forget pharm companies.

the federal government isn't making any money, but surely there are a few "public" servants who are.


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Invisiblekrishnamurti
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4592715 - 08/28/05 09:34 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

how should the supposed 'inevitability' of it becoming illegal again keep it from being legal..? what kind of lawmaking process is this? what does it matter if people 'make it look dangerous', when everyone will have the freedom to take it and realize that its not dangerous?


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I'll see you down in Guantanamo Bay

Donate spores to FSRC or suffer the consequences!*

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*consequences may or may not be suffered


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: krishnamurti]
    #4592985 - 08/28/05 10:22 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The war on drugs is fueled by pure greed and sadism. Ending the war on drugs will not be easy.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: LSDempire]
    #4598867 - 08/30/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Oxycontin is not illegal. It should be the same with psycheelics, you can get them with a prescription, or through the back door. Just as long as stupid people can't get their hands on it easily and that the product is reliable pharmacuetical grade.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineLibertarian
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4759106 - 10/05/05 01:07 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

D.S. don't take this the wrong way, but that is far too much compromise. I think I differ, because you are coming from a psychonaut perspective, while I am doing it from a civil libertarian perspective. On principal soley, I don't believe adults should be nannied as such. If an adult kills himself on shrooms or lsd, his/her fault, and society should not be punished. I know this is sounding heartless, but that is an aspect of being an adult drug user (keep in mind I am making a compromise already by limiting it to 18+.

The error in your reasoning I don't understand is why should I or another citizen be punished for the irresponsible behavior of others? This is collectivism, in fact this is the problem behind stereotypical racism for example (such as the black criminal, greedy jew, lazy mexican and other detestable stereotypes).

I do see what you are trying to do (avoid prison, and I back you). And I am willing to compromise, but not to the extent that I am punished by a paternal or maternal state, for the behavior of someone else. I should be able to do any drug I want on my private property, I don't feel I should have to hide what I read, think, or do at all. As Long as users remain silent and not unified, nothing will be unscheduled. We need to act with one voice (there are at least 20 million of us, that is a lot of power we can harness). I am depressed, unable to experiance happiness, because NON-Violent users/dealers are locked up, man it kills me.

Please don't think I am being confrontational, or anything, my style on the internet tends to come across as assholish, which I don't mean it to be.

P.L.U.R.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Libertarian]
    #4765148 - 10/06/05 05:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I am just saying what I think is feesible. I think the impulsive and ignorant masses make the legality of such complex and powerful chemicals very difficult to maintain. In a perfect world we would let people make their choices for themselves and the government's role would simply to educate them honestly about those choices. I don't think that could ever happen.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Libertarian]
    #4770705 - 10/07/05 08:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Libertarian said:
D.S. don't take this the wrong way, but that is far too much compromise. I think I differ, because you are coming from a psychonaut perspective, while I am doing it from a civil libertarian perspective. On principal soley, I don't believe adults should be nannied as such. If an adult kills himself on shrooms or lsd, his/her fault, and society should not be punished. I know this is sounding heartless, but that is an aspect of being an adult drug user (keep in mind I am making a compromise already by limiting it to 18+.

The error in your reasoning I don't understand is why should I or another citizen be punished for the irresponsible behavior of others? This is collectivism, in fact this is the problem behind stereotypical racism for example (such as the black criminal, greedy jew, lazy mexican and other detestable stereotypes).

I do see what you are trying to do (avoid prison, and I back you). And I am willing to compromise, but not to the extent that I am punished by a paternal or maternal state, for the behavior of someone else. I should be able to do any drug I want on my private property, I don't feel I should have to hide what I read, think, or do at all. As Long as users remain silent and not unified, nothing will be unscheduled. We need to act with one voice (there are at least 20 million of us, that is a lot of power we can harness). I am depressed, unable to experiance happiness, because NON-Violent users/dealers are locked up, man it kills me.

Please don't think I am being confrontational, or anything, my style on the internet tends to come across as assholish, which I don't mean it to be.

P.L.U.R.



Speaks the truth.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4771100 - 10/07/05 09:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

People are irresponsible with alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceuticals as well. While someone might point to my bad trip on acid as a reason why it should be illegal, I could just as easily point to the 9 students on my campus who have been hospitalized for alcohol poisoning in the past month. Do incidents like this trigger calls for alcohol prohibition? Well, they did before we actually tried prohibition and saw what a massive failure it was.

If psychedelics were legal, we could be better prepared to handle bad trips, and we could have psychedelic hangouts where they are served in a safe, positive environment, with no fear of being caught and incarcerated.

I think one major contributor to the dangers of drugs is the fact that people need to hide from society in order to do them. If there were places where people could feel safe taking them, the number of bad trips would surely be reduced. Will some people abuse them? Sure, just like they do now. But the potential for abuse is greater when they remain stigmatized and prohibited.

Your argument seems to assume that legalization would increase the number of people who do psychedelics. While it may be true that some people are kept from trying them only because they are illegal, they are a marginal group, and would not constitute a statistically significant portion of the population. Now, we may see a significant rise in psychedelic use if our culture becomes more accepting of them(which will probably be a prerequisite for their legalization), but such a culture would also develop a social context in which they are to be used, and thus would do damage control for such instances.

I do believe that there are certain people who just shouldn't use psychedelics, but the same goes for alcohol. Much of the harm associated with drugs is actually due to prohibition. The benefits of legalization would far outweigh the negatives.


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OfflineOknayd
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Silversoul]
    #4791813 - 10/12/05 08:24 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I think i agree with both D.S and Libertarian,

While concerned about irresponsible people who could take it, that should not be a reason to punish others who don't 'fuck themselves up"

Maybe free honest and scientific education/information is an solution to this, but offcourse that can only be done when it's not illegal anymore to do research.
But about us making one voice, i feel that absolutely. When the hell are we ready to come out of the closet?! lol
no but seriously though..

My english isn't perfect, and i'm just new in here. I live in the Netherlands, so things are different here, but not ideal.


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4792319 - 10/12/05 11:08 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

If I found LSD and Psilocybin, anyone can.


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"A Bad Day for Pants"


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OfflineMisanthrope
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4818470 - 10/17/05 10:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I think if psychedelics were legalized there would have to be some restrictions. For one, I think someone should have to be 21 (not 18) and the box (or whatever) would have to be bombarded with prominent warnings.
I've had a great relationship with psychedelics starting at age 17, but this is only because i had a responsible older brother who was very experienced and we talked allot before hand, and tripped in a safe environment.
Also if schools educated students about the dangers of psychedelics in a "NO BS" way it might make a difference.
I think we can agree the problem with legalization would be how easy it might be for the uneducated to grab a bunch of acid and freak out a party of teenagers.

In short i would settle for you proposal, but overall i would like to see legalization.


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Misanthrope]
    #4826485 - 10/19/05 06:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

nice arbitrary age restrictions.


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"A Bad Day for Pants"


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Offlinevalour
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4837899 - 10/22/05 12:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Libertarian's on the money here.

I do see your point, but if we're seeking a free society, more government fiat is not the answer.


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"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: valour]
    #4866831 - 10/29/05 11:34 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

For one thing you have to stay separate from the anti-war people and all other political crazies, or you ruin all of your political movements.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4935042 - 11/14/05 10:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In politics you have to build a consensus to achieve results.
The right wing has done all right with fundementalists as an ally.
Some would consider them political crazies, including many conservatives.


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Offlinerickpsfuckyou
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: falcon]
    #5117608 - 12/29/05 01:34 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

i am a responsible person who started my first experiences with lsd and mushrooms at fourteen, i am twenty four now and would not think twice about kickin down to a youth of around the same age as i was when i started getting curious. they would have to be mentally developed enough to handle it responsibly and maturely,and know what they are gettin into but provided they do that,what the fuck the problem is?
our laws were written by religious fanatics with a repressed and puritannical set of values that don't represent the values of 60-75% of the country. every culture since the beginning of culture itself has used hallucinagens, and or drugs. not only that but unless you are a junky they are a victimless crime, like gambling or hookers. what right does anyone have to tell us what we can ingest wager or fuck?


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Offline888
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #5132104 - 01/02/06 05:09 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

guns, alcohol, and promoting immoral desires is all "legal" ... They don't teach morals or how to intelligently evaluate and question something in government funded schools. The greedy want to keep a dumb workforce so they train you to not ask questions and to get very used to the system. Turn on your TV... buy some crap.. then go back to work.

The real question is morality. Laws are unnecessary if each individual holds themselves to moral responsibility. Morals is behind every action so shouldn't this be the place to start.

The soldiers in Iraq are told to shoot children that approach them and wont stop. I know someone who has a friend that shot a little kid who was trying to bring him some candy. Why? because the US government told him thats what he "Legally" has to do.. it was an order. Yet that wasn't what his morals told him to do it's what the Governments Laws told him to do. Think for yourself and act responsibly .... Laws are nothing... Morals are everything.


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OfflinePeace
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: rickpsfuckyou]
    #7245093 - 07/31/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry for bringing up another old post...

But ya i couldn't agree with you better, since even the time of moses and jesus psychedelics were being used by the upper class as a source of knowledge. Its what many suspect to be within the Holy Grail, or the grail itself. Also known as MANNA, psychedelic mushrooms were taken by moses himself and probably jesus and 1000's of other important people who could just be myth or whatever; for what reason? Universal secrets...knowledge...

Our govt. more then likely FEARS the shit out of lsd/mushrooms and other psychedelics because of the fact of how mind opening they are, if everyone took them, there would more then likely no longer be the current corrupt system because everyone would wake up and realize that the govt. is just a mafia, and it can be brought down and replaced with a new 'mafia' or group that is far better. Basically like the matrix, everyone is so fucking blind to the truth, to the fact that there is MORE out there, that paper is just paper - its useless shit being replaced with the real stuff. GOLD! That the current power has the power they have because so many people are oblivious to the fact that its just an organized group, or what you could call a mafia (im just using mafia cause its a perfect term to use), naive in the fact that they are being controlled, helping this system, working for it, wasting their lives, to recieve paper, and work their ass off....living their life, for the benefit of the mass corporations/system and the individuals who control it, wasting their life away in an office to live the 'american dream'.

Thanks to some punk ass bankers in the early 1920's though, who hassled senators and whatnot on their vacations ( i think even bribed) to allow for the bankers to take over the money system and make money and replace it with their money. THE FEDERAL RESERVE. We are paying an income tax, to a corporation, THAT ISN'T EVEN our govt, a group of bankers has taken the power! Yet, we pay an 'income tax' to them that is not even required, and is shown in one of the amendments to be false; but somehow they can take your house away and fuck you over for not paying it.

WHY in the hell is the federal reserve inside the business listings in the phone book?????? BECAUSE ITS WHAT IT IS, and somehow all these sheeple in america will never get it in their head...and will continue paying their income, continue living in chains to this ever more so growing corrupt system, hungry for money. The wrong people have taken control....almost as if 70 years ago a few nazis decided to change their identity, work their way into the american system, then pass on their plan to their children, who get even more control/higher ranking positions, until the point where they have succeeded and eaten us from the inside out. "if you cant beat them, join them". Soon the ticking time bomb will go off, the plan will reach its full effect, with all the believers and brainwashed sheep, clueless that there are people who we dont even know about SO deep in our govt. that they probably have more power then cheyne, bush and many others put together.

America recieved a green mold spore decades ago, which has contaminated the country, expanded from the inside out, and destroyed the many good intentioned spores ability to perceive good from bad. It has destroyed the American spores' ability to differ between understanding and arrogance.

The opiate of the masses has succeeded.

BUT has done so a little to late, people are waking up, 9/11 has contributed a bit, same with george w. bush who has made believers out of so many people who all then realized he was wrong leading to them FINALLY thinking for themselves and wondering why they were so stupid. Spores are learning their rights, the truth, taking psychedelics, learning for themselves, thinking for themselves, learning of the green mold spore that has been disguised and secret for so long you'd think it was the illuminati, and best of all, REALIZING that there are many opiates of the masses that are controlling/sedating the spores of america... SUCH AS TELEVISION/media. People(i mean spores) are using psychedelics to achieve a mindset of knowledge, almost as if opening a pathway to becoming genius; like a "key to universal knowledge" - which is helping spores wake up, helping people sit there for a few hours for once in their life, and use their mind to think, actually being able to sit down with no worry of tomorrow and allow the mind to be clear, thanks to psychedlics, and actually think about life. Many unique spores that have been enlightened by the "manna" sometimes flip on the teli, watch the news only to discover more ... Instead of there being actual NEWS, and real, truthfull important stuff, there are thousands of blind spores obsessing over paris hiltons d.u.i that is leading to her departure to spore jail. Spores are seeing that there are far bigger troubles all over the world that are more important then the useless blind spore going to jail for a dui; such as holocausts, death, evil, famine in africa/middle east/asia/EVERYWHERE, and soon it will hit America, and so on. The green mold is spreading and killing the earth with it. Like the wise spore who went by the name of Nostradamus once predicted, in 2016 there will be GREAT world famine, it will strike everyone.

It's time for all those spores to unite, its time for them to combine their genetic makeups, and grow larger, meeting other spores and combing genetic make ups and beliefs with them as well, growing and growing and....until the green mold is RESISTED, and then overpowered, and recolonized with a newer, stronger, more EXPERIENCED type of spore, one that is more evolved MENTALLY and have better understanding then the older generation of spores, who will then raise children that will be almost contamination proof, and are able to move into other countries and dispose of the remaining green, uniting the world and all of its spores, creating a finally, fully colonized planet that works together regardless of spore pigmentation. Alas able to try and travel to other planets to colonized and drop spores on... only so that we can leave them undisturbed, wondering what the fuck their point is in life and how they got there, only to create religiosn to try and justify their beliefs that there is a spore God, and waste 1000's of years on pointless wars and probably ice age after ice age until finally one day (unless self obliterated with the tinkering of their weapons. Or overpopulated to the point that they eat the planet clean leading to their extinction, like what cows do if there are to many in one area, they eat all the food, not enough to go around and soon they are all dead) they can fully colonize their planet and move on to try and spread their spores throughout this small universe inside a bigger universe inside an even larger universe thats inside another universe, and the shit just never ends dimension after dimension (unless its just such a LARGE number of different dimensions ....might as well call it eternal). Though they will probably never get that far for well, a google amount of years.

THEN finally, there will be peace for a couple thousand years, then maybe a war here and there thats not to big over some silly arguments, then back to peace again for ages unless we end up fighting some other non-human being trying to attack us, say a highly advanced green mold spore who has colonized a few planets containing your more primitive spores, whom are all believing in some imaginary god and bowing all day to a shrine, wasting their lives in worship/slavery/inexperience simply because you forgot to revisit that planet and explain things. Now you've got to deal with Dilli Jumbo Towakwaka, the green mold president who has almost colonized your long forgotten planet. The green mold using many of your spores as blind cattle who will attack you because they were told that you're regime of spores are evil and godless and want to kill the green molds currently occupied planet....because they think the green mold are the same as them and are have good intentions. When really the cattle of these green mold are attacking the ones who left signs behind that led to their belief, such as seeing a man get into a space craft and fly up into heaven, they have no clue that they are attacking God - the spores who placed them on that planet, whom also once believed in a god.

You decide to just set your old planet that is now corrupted and hopeless off orbit (with whatever new technology) sending it into colder climates further from its many sun's, pretty much slowing down their colonization to a dead stop, giving you the chance to destroy many of their defending spacecrafts, allowing for you to move in and drop a shit load of Psychedelic plants and seeds, then take aboard 40 of the cattle spore being controlled by the green mold, and dose each individual one of them with mushrooms, then acid the next day, and if further needed - salvia and/or dmt . To help aid in the DE-brainwashing of what will be the starting crowd that change the flow of thought/ideas among the cattle on your forgot planet that is currently still sedated with cold, BUT STILL functional and dangerous with green mold who are just very cold.

You transport them back after feeding them knowledge and understanding, teach them of all the psychedelic plants in their regions before hand, then have them go and spread the info/psychedelics and so on, creating a group of people, that after once the planet has been knocked back into orbit and both the green spore and the primitive spores of your kind as well as the secretly dropped de-brainwashed spores are able to move around again. Everyone thinks things are normal, until 40 years later problems with drug abuse start occurring, then 20 more years pass and there is a group of spores emerging adding yet another class/label to the many formed, a group which is looked down upon by their govt (who are the green mold, its a secret though of course) and the class of politics and religions. They call them the druggys, stoners, hippies, tree huggers, yada yada ...

Huge gatherings are held by these 'hippies' and it goes on for about 10 years, then suddenly drugs are HEAVILLY enforced.....then 30 years later they re-emerge after having had the psychedelics slowly made well known again, one by one.... But at this point all the spores are thinking that was just an era/fad that ended 34 years before; when really, it was something that was about to explode and set them free to something they would have never expected... THAT THE ALIENS THEY FAUGHT 110 years before, happened to be the ones they have been worshiping for oh so long! Who aren't even gods!

They go through massive world famine and world war at the same time, but halfway through the war the masses arise, the druggies, the hippies, the once arrogant, the understanding, all rise, and meet up, and exchange thoughts and ideas, then create an even larger group, which expands……and they beat world famine and corruption one place at a time, better establishing some motha fuckin peace! And finally, the good spores win, fly down, and inform the still many clueless and unbelieving arrogant. And finally they to have freedom to simply just smoke a goddamn joint!


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