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OfflineDivided_Sky
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I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone
    #4575027 - 08/24/05 03:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If that happened and the masses could get ahold of LSD, psilocybin, etc. it would almost be inevitable that they would become illegal again. This is something Aldous Huxley and Humphry Osmond understood while Timothy Leary and Ken Kesey did not. The latter two can be held responsible for getting psychedelics placed as Schedule I substances by promoting and distributing the drugs to the masses. As a result alot people who were irresponsible or could not handle LSD were taking it and freaking out, making it look dangerous and fueled a movement to criminalize the drug. The bigger and more unfiltered the crowd the more dumb people and at risk individuals will cause problems.

My solution is simply to move psychedlics from Schedule I to where they can be used in scientific study or psychotherapy, or prescribed to sound individuals in a safe and positive setting, but not sold on the street without prescription. This was how it was through the fifties to the early sixties when the most progress was made and least obstacles encountered.

If some small groups or psychonauts or experienced ravers get some through the back door, that's ok, just as long as people who don't know what they are doing cannot get access to psychedelics easily.

Not only is this the best policy, but probobly the only possible scenario for psychedelic chemicals and plants to be used without the threat of jail time. Also if we had pharmacuetical grade LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, 2-cb, etc, there would much less a problem with (and market for) dealers selling dubious product like research chemicals claiming it to be LSD, or "excstacy" cut with meth and caffiene, or "excstacy" that IS meth or caffience.

That is my thought.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4576345 - 08/24/05 09:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

good point, and theres really not a thing i can say against it because its true, theres always a bunch of idiots that'll take it and drive around. But, even if it were legalized for medical usage, i think it would be much easier to find it so legal or not, people if they want something find it anyway.


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: PreparationH]
    #4584959 - 08/26/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ending the war on drugs would make drugs safer than they are now, and the government could save a lot of money by ending the war on drugs.


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Invisibletak
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: LSDempire]
    #4587673 - 08/27/05 04:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

not as much money as they could make keeping them illegal


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: tak]
    #4587758 - 08/27/05 05:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, the people who are making the money are the prisons, the cops, and the dealers. Technically the FEDERAL government is not making money from the war on drugs, but their are many people lower down the lader that are.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlinenycomyco
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4592653 - 08/28/05 11:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

don't forget pharm companies.

the federal government isn't making any money, but surely there are a few "public" servants who are.


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Invisiblekrishnamurti
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4592715 - 08/28/05 11:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

how should the supposed 'inevitability' of it becoming illegal again keep it from being legal..? what kind of lawmaking process is this? what does it matter if people 'make it look dangerous', when everyone will have the freedom to take it and realize that its not dangerous?


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OfflineLSDempire
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: krishnamurti]
    #4592985 - 08/29/05 12:22 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The war on drugs is fueled by pure greed and sadism. Ending the war on drugs will not be easy.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: LSDempire]
    #4598867 - 08/30/05 02:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Oxycontin is not illegal. It should be the same with psycheelics, you can get them with a prescription, or through the back door. Just as long as stupid people can't get their hands on it easily and that the product is reliable pharmacuetical grade.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflineLibertarian
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4759106 - 10/05/05 03:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

D.S. don't take this the wrong way, but that is far too much compromise. I think I differ, because you are coming from a psychonaut perspective, while I am doing it from a civil libertarian perspective. On principal soley, I don't believe adults should be nannied as such. If an adult kills himself on shrooms or lsd, his/her fault, and society should not be punished. I know this is sounding heartless, but that is an aspect of being an adult drug user (keep in mind I am making a compromise already by limiting it to 18+.

The error in your reasoning I don't understand is why should I or another citizen be punished for the irresponsible behavior of others? This is collectivism, in fact this is the problem behind stereotypical racism for example (such as the black criminal, greedy jew, lazy mexican and other detestable stereotypes).

I do see what you are trying to do (avoid prison, and I back you). And I am willing to compromise, but not to the extent that I am punished by a paternal or maternal state, for the behavior of someone else. I should be able to do any drug I want on my private property, I don't feel I should have to hide what I read, think, or do at all. As Long as users remain silent and not unified, nothing will be unscheduled. We need to act with one voice (there are at least 20 million of us, that is a lot of power we can harness). I am depressed, unable to experiance happiness, because NON-Violent users/dealers are locked up, man it kills me.

Please don't think I am being confrontational, or anything, my style on the internet tends to come across as assholish, which I don't mean it to be.

P.L.U.R.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Libertarian]
    #4765148 - 10/06/05 07:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I am just saying what I think is feesible. I think the impulsive and ignorant masses make the legality of such complex and powerful chemicals very difficult to maintain. In a perfect world we would let people make their choices for themselves and the government's role would simply to educate them honestly about those choices. I don't think that could ever happen.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OnlinePreparationH
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Libertarian]
    #4770705 - 10/07/05 10:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Libertarian said:
D.S. don't take this the wrong way, but that is far too much compromise. I think I differ, because you are coming from a psychonaut perspective, while I am doing it from a civil libertarian perspective. On principal soley, I don't believe adults should be nannied as such. If an adult kills himself on shrooms or lsd, his/her fault, and society should not be punished. I know this is sounding heartless, but that is an aspect of being an adult drug user (keep in mind I am making a compromise already by limiting it to 18+.

The error in your reasoning I don't understand is why should I or another citizen be punished for the irresponsible behavior of others? This is collectivism, in fact this is the problem behind stereotypical racism for example (such as the black criminal, greedy jew, lazy mexican and other detestable stereotypes).

I do see what you are trying to do (avoid prison, and I back you). And I am willing to compromise, but not to the extent that I am punished by a paternal or maternal state, for the behavior of someone else. I should be able to do any drug I want on my private property, I don't feel I should have to hide what I read, think, or do at all. As Long as users remain silent and not unified, nothing will be unscheduled. We need to act with one voice (there are at least 20 million of us, that is a lot of power we can harness). I am depressed, unable to experiance happiness, because NON-Violent users/dealers are locked up, man it kills me.

Please don't think I am being confrontational, or anything, my style on the internet tends to come across as assholish, which I don't mean it to be.

P.L.U.R.



Speaks the truth.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4771100 - 10/07/05 11:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

People are irresponsible with alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceuticals as well. While someone might point to my bad trip on acid as a reason why it should be illegal, I could just as easily point to the 9 students on my campus who have been hospitalized for alcohol poisoning in the past month. Do incidents like this trigger calls for alcohol prohibition? Well, they did before we actually tried prohibition and saw what a massive failure it was.

If psychedelics were legal, we could be better prepared to handle bad trips, and we could have psychedelic hangouts where they are served in a safe, positive environment, with no fear of being caught and incarcerated.

I think one major contributor to the dangers of drugs is the fact that people need to hide from society in order to do them. If there were places where people could feel safe taking them, the number of bad trips would surely be reduced. Will some people abuse them? Sure, just like they do now. But the potential for abuse is greater when they remain stigmatized and prohibited.

Your argument seems to assume that legalization would increase the number of people who do psychedelics. While it may be true that some people are kept from trying them only because they are illegal, they are a marginal group, and would not constitute a statistically significant portion of the population. Now, we may see a significant rise in psychedelic use if our culture becomes more accepting of them(which will probably be a prerequisite for their legalization), but such a culture would also develop a social context in which they are to be used, and thus would do damage control for such instances.

I do believe that there are certain people who just shouldn't use psychedelics, but the same goes for alcohol. Much of the harm associated with drugs is actually due to prohibition. The benefits of legalization would far outweigh the negatives.


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OfflineOknayd
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Silversoul]
    #4791813 - 10/12/05 10:24 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think i agree with both D.S and Libertarian,

While concerned about irresponsible people who could take it, that should not be a reason to punish others who don't 'fuck themselves up"

Maybe free honest and scientific education/information is an solution to this, but offcourse that can only be done when it's not illegal anymore to do research.
But about us making one voice, i feel that absolutely. When the hell are we ready to come out of the closet?! lol
no but seriously though..

My english isn't perfect, and i'm just new in here. I live in the Netherlands, so things are different here, but not ideal.


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4792319 - 10/12/05 01:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If I found LSD and Psilocybin, anyone can.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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OfflineMisanthrope
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4818470 - 10/18/05 12:00 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think if psychedelics were legalized there would have to be some restrictions. For one, I think someone should have to be 21 (not 18) and the box (or whatever) would have to be bombarded with prominent warnings.
I've had a great relationship with psychedelics starting at age 17, but this is only because i had a responsible older brother who was very experienced and we talked allot before hand, and tripped in a safe environment.
Also if schools educated students about the dangers of psychedelics in a "NO BS" way it might make a difference.
I think we can agree the problem with legalization would be how easy it might be for the uneducated to grab a bunch of acid and freak out a party of teenagers.

In short i would settle for you proposal, but overall i would like to see legalization.


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Misanthrope]
    #4826485 - 10/19/05 08:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

nice arbitrary age restrictions.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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Offlinevalour
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4837899 - 10/22/05 02:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Libertarian's on the money here.

I do see your point, but if we're seeking a free society, more government fiat is not the answer.


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: valour]
    #4866831 - 10/29/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

For one thing you have to stay separate from the anti-war people and all other political crazies, or you ruin all of your political movements.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: I don't think Psychedelics should or will be completely legalized for everyone [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4935042 - 11/15/05 12:42 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

In politics you have to build a consensus to achieve results.
The right wing has done all right with fundementalists as an ally.
Some would consider them political crazies, including many conservatives.


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General Interest >> Political Discussion >> Drug Policy Reform

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