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Offlinechaospilot
Ming I

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 304
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
conspiracy theories
    #4569543 - 08/23/05 08:10 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

well reading these forums, other forums, talking to people and what not, i got to thinking...

first off, this isn't a thread to discuss your favorite theories.

I was thinking, how come when ever someone hears of something along the lines that the government may be conspiring something or to cover something up, it is immediately thrown away and labeled a "conspiracy" or "leftist conspiracy" or so on.

Its not like there hasn't been any conspiracy's in the world. There was the Watergate scandal, the Contra thing, both are conspiracies.(at least to my understanding they are).

Hitler conspired to burn down a building (forget which one) so he could get the Nazi party more influence in Germany before he was the Fuirer(sp?).

There was a roman emperor who hated Christan's so much that he burned down all of Rome and blamed it on the Christan's( this can be considered a conspiracy).

There have been countless conspiracy's in the Totalitarian countries like the Soviet Union.

And if someone wanted to take over a country, get more power so he or she could do as they please, and take the power from a country that is relatively free, the way i see it they have two ways at going at it.
1.) They can use the military to take it over
or
2.) They can be sly, slow, take their time so no one is upset, or hardly anyone is upset, brainwash the mass population, and conspire to take it over slowly.

So i wonder why people usually will throw an idea away as soon as they hear it because its a conspiracy theory. Maybe its because it seems to extreme or elegant for anyone to actually try, but then what if someone actually tries it, and then everyone thinks its not actually happening when it is.

Or is it because through the brainwashing <tinfoil-hat> of the media (not only news, but TV, Shows, Movies, Music etc)that as soon as you hear "conspiracy" you automatically think "lies, untrue,crazy,insane,stupid,dumb". And because the people are brainwashed, they too will spread it around thus trying to brainwash more people unknowingly.

maybe its both




I'm not trying to flame people who say that conspiracy theories aren't true, but i am really trying to understand why most of the time someone presents a theory it is automatically shot down. If there really was a conspiracy, then the people in question would most likely cover their tracks so that no one could prove it, or it would be hard to prove it.


I mean, could it be possible that at least some of the theories are actually true?






sorry for my grammar, i suck at english, even tho i speak it....


Edited by chaospilot (08/23/05 08:12 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: chaospilot]
    #4569993 - 08/23/05 11:23 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

> sorry for my grammar, i suck at english, even tho i speak it....

No worries... I suck at English too, and it is my primary language.

Regarding your question about conspiracy theories... Most conspiracy theories that I have researched are created by wanna-be-experts that don't have a firm grasp of the "science" that they are using to "prove" their theory. They also tend to take quotes out of context to support their theory. They will use a statement by one "expert" to prove they are correct while ignoring other "experts" that claim the opposite. They fixate on small inaccuracies and ignore the larger picture. They base their theory off of hear-say, voodoo science, and imagination, then claim that it is fact and that everybody else is ignoring the obvious.

A good example... the "piano man" that showed up in London (I think) that was wearing a tux with the labels cut off and wouldn't speak. The media reported that he drew a piano and when shown a real piano played music for hours. The media reported that he was a professional muscician, etc... This story went on and on for months. Turns out that they guy doesn't know how to play the piano at all and when he was shown the piano, he simply hit the same note over and over. The media had to change the story to make it more interested... or they simply messed it up... who knows...

But if you take the above example, and apply it to 9-11, all the sudden you have a huge conspiracy. Person-A claimed this, but Person-B claimed that, while event-C actually happened. It must be a conspiracy. Please... the media can't figure out the difference between a single note being tapped and a professional pianist, but when they screw up something big, it is obviously a conspiarcy.

I don't doubt that there are conspiracies in the world. However, I need more than conflicting statements made to the press, or firefighters becoming demolition experts overnight, before I will buy into it.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineZooDoggy
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: chaospilot]
    #4570734 - 08/23/05 02:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

The word or term "conspiracy" is a loaded word.  As soon as you or somebody use it most ppl instinctively tune out because they have been brainwashed by mass media to do so.  I couldn't count how many times the word conspiracy has been thrown around on tv or in movie followed by laughter etc.
The only time the word "conspiracy" is not made fun of in the media is when the government charges ppl with "conspiring to...." which happens all the time.  :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: ZooDoggy]
    #4571339 - 08/23/05 05:20 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Did you say conspiracy?  WTF! bunch of armadillo hat wearin fools  :rotfl:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: chaospilot]
    #4571460 - 08/23/05 05:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I believe in ulterior motives and special interests(these things are an everyday reality in politics), but conspiracy theorists generally make things out to be more complex than they really are. If a group of politicians are meeting, it's always something devious to them, rather than simply working out trade agreements, or even simply improving international relations. Conspiracy theorists would do well to learn Occam's Razor, and apply it to their bizaare worldview.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Silversoul]
    #4571549 - 08/23/05 06:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I agree...Now what seems more obvious to you...
Terrorists attacking america because they hate it's freedoms?  :rolleyes:
or
Certain individuals allowing the attacks to happen in order to gain a solid foothold in the middle east.

I guess it's just a matter of perspective.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rono]
    #4571677 - 08/23/05 06:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

What about every other terrorist attack?

Do you think that "Bush Knew" about it and didn't do anything to stop it, or that Bush was actively involved in planning and orchestrating the event?


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rono]
    #4571690 - 08/23/05 07:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I concede that it is possible that Bush had more foreknowledge than he was willing to admit. At the very least, he handled the situation in an ignorant and incompetent matter(but then again, so did Clinton). I would, however, rule out any possibility of Bush having taken part in planning the operation(as some conspiracy theorists suggest).


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Silversoul]
    #4571720 - 08/23/05 07:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

i think none of us have any idea what some people are ready to do in order to have more power.

and absolute power is like the holy grail for those in thirst of more power. all throughout history this is what powerful people have reached out for...Alexander the Great, Cesar, Hitler, Stalin... this strive for power is still very much present today, and its not something we should underestimate.


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: exclusive58]
    #4572496 - 08/23/05 10:26 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

well said, 5+ for you.


--------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." 
~Thomas Jefferson

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington


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Offlinechaospilot
Ming I

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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: exclusive58]
    #4573869 - 08/24/05 05:08 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

i think none of us have any idea what some people are ready to do in order to have more power.

and absolute power is like the holy grail for those in thirst of more power. all throughout history this is what powerful people have reached out for...Alexander the Great, Cesar, Hitler, Stalin... this strive for power is still very much present today, and its not something we should underestimate.




I was thinking the very same thing, and that is what got me started on the tread.



I think that just because someone might sound a little crazy in his idea, i think its worth actualy investigating a least a little bit before we throw it away, just because its a conspiracy theory. Like exclusive58 said, one of us have any idea what some people are ready to do in order to have more power". I have to agree with you 100%


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4575173 - 08/24/05 04:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MagicalMystery said:
What about every other terrorist attack?

Do you think that "Bush Knew" about it and didn't do anything to stop it, or that Bush was actively involved in planning and orchestrating the event?




Which terrorist attacks are those?

I highly doubt that Bush was involved in ANY stage of the planning of 9-11...in my opinion he is nothing but a puppet at best that is doing what his handlers tell him to. (Cheney, Rumsfeld) I do however think that he is complicit and had foreknowledge of the attacks.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineMagicalMystery
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rono]
    #4575220 - 08/24/05 04:40 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
Which terrorist attacks are those?




Any attack that fits the mold of a "Bush Knew" style attack. An attack that is blamed on the Arabs, that furthers support for BushCo and that focus's American attention towards going to war with oil-rich nations. What other attacks do you think that Bush had aforeknowledge of and ignored? The WTC attacks (first ones)? The Embassy bombings? How did he get into such a scheme?
Quote:


I highly doubt that Bush was involved in ANY stage of the planning of 9-11...in my opinion he is nothing but a puppet at best that is doing what his handlers tell him to. (Cheney, Rumsfeld) I do however think that he is complicit and had foreknowledge of the attacks.




What about other attacks?


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4575452 - 08/24/05 05:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I am only talking about the 9-11 attacks.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinechaospilot
Ming I

Registered: 06/29/05
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rono]
    #4576323 - 08/24/05 09:52 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

the sad truth is that the Bush Administration (as well as probaly any) exploited what has happened on sept 11th to pass things like the Patriot Act and to go to war with Iraq. Whether he knew about it beforehand or not.


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