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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War
    #4566515 - 08/22/05 01:13 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I have not once retreated from a single prediction made on this forum. All have come true and only one remains unfulfilled. I stand by my long-predicted civil war in Iraq. It is already in progress with near-daily killings, but when the new constitution fails to please the three major factions - chaos and more bloodshed will reign in a "free and democratic" Iraq.

How will the war-supporters then justify the invasion?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4566522 - 08/22/05 01:16 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

and what are those predictions again. OH GREAT ONE


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineSycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4566551 - 08/22/05 01:27 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Seems more of a logical conclusion than a prediction but don't let me steal your thunder hehe.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Sycronica]
    #4566578 - 08/22/05 01:36 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

more like wishful thinking.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineSycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4566583 - 08/22/05 01:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

wishful thinking is that we are spreading democracy lol


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Sycronica]
    #4566614 - 08/22/05 01:51 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
wishful thinking is that we are spreading democracy lol




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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Sycronica]
    #4566681 - 08/22/05 02:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Seems more of a logical conclusion than a prediction but don't let me steal your thunder hehe.

I posted this idea long before troops went in. ANY THINKING person who studied the people, the region and the history could see how it would unfold.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4566813 - 08/22/05 02:54 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

what other predictions on Iraq have you made besides Hussein never being tried and the civil war?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4566983 - 08/22/05 03:52 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I have not once retreated from a single prediction made on this forum. All have come true and only one remains unfulfilled. I stand by my long-predicted civil war in Iraq. It is already in progress with near-daily killings, but when the new constitution fails to please the three major factions - chaos and more bloodshed will reign in a "free and democratic" Iraq.

How will the war-supporters then justify the invasion?




Well, if you continuously lower the standards of what any reasonable person would consider a full blown civil war NYC is in a state of civil war today. Did you predict that? Wanna back up your bullshit with any facts? Hell, how about just a definition of "civil war" so we'll all know what the fuck you're talking about instead of just you, John Edwards. Please include any distinctions you would like to make between half-blown and full-blown as well.

While your crossing over, let us know when Hussein's trial will end, because it set to start any day now. One could easily argue it has already started since motions are being filed left and right. Ah what the fuck, even when it does start you'll probably just say it's a fake moon landing and still not "retreat".


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4567031 - 08/22/05 04:02 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Well, if you continuously lower the standards of what any reasonable person would consider a full blown civil war NYC is in a state of civil war today.



So we can compare the two, why don't you tell us how many bombing, rocket and mortar attacks occur per week in NYC?


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4567065 - 08/22/05 04:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Quote:

Sycronica said:
wishful thinking is that we are spreading democracy lol







i did not like the idea of invading Iraq. i also thought we should have split the country up. but now after all the life/work people have spent in Iraq i think there is a chance that this could work. could it work???? the all knowing swami says no.

but unlike some people on the shroomery i hope for the best possible future for Iraq.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4567077 - 08/22/05 04:15 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

so swami, the countdown! how much time?

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4567084 - 08/22/05 04:16 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

that's fine and well, but people should be allowed
to bet the crap line too.

there's nothing wrong with pessimissm, per se.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

Registered: 07/27/05
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4567090 - 08/22/05 04:16 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Actually, if the insurgents are attacking us, it's not a civil war. They'd have to be killing their own countrymen for it to be civil. And if a civil war starts, we'd better be ready to get the fuck out of there.


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"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4567096 - 08/22/05 04:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

He just said killings. I want to know what his criteria are for declaring the situation to be a full blown civil war. Is that too much to ask, a definition from the mighty Kreskin? I can predict that it will be gorble and wait until whatever happens happens and say see, I said it would be gorble and now IT IS.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4567099 - 08/22/05 04:19 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Iraq is definatly gorbled up. Good prediction.


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane

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OfflineProsgeopax
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Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4567110 - 08/22/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I would like the best possible world for the Iraqi people as well. Iraq's culture and history probably do not lend themselves to a western style democratic-republic. Additionally Iraq is the result of western powers putting down arbitrary lines and calling it a country. It's too bad that those making the constitution did not spend more time studying the Swiss system of confederation, which may be better suited for accommodating the various ethnic and religious groups which comprise the population living in the area known as Iraq. Such an arrangement would allow for secession however, and that is frowned upon by all those concerned with control.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: afoaf]
    #4567111 - 08/22/05 04:22 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
that's fine and well, but people should be allowed
to bet the crap line too.

there's nothing wrong with pessimissm, per se.




yup

but i think some people are betting on the crap line only because they hate bush.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4567135 - 08/22/05 04:29 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
I would like the best possible world for the Iraqi people as well.  Iraq's culture and history probably do not lend themselves to a western style democratic-republic.  Additionally Iraq is the result of western powers putting down arbitrary lines and calling it a country.  It's too bad that those making the constitution did not spend more time studying the Swiss system of confederation, which may be better suited for accommodating the various ethnic and religious groups which comprise the population living in the area known as Iraq.  Such an arrangement would allow for secession however, and that is frowned upon by all those concerned with control.




:thumbup:

its also too bad that those who went to war didn't spend more time studying the country's culture. the soldiers over there are told complete bullshit about Iraqis' habits, customs, signs, symbols...i once heard a soldier in Iraq point to a flag with three different colours and explain how each colour meant something different, like blood, death and some other thing, when really the colours meant something totally different.

i guess it helps the soldiers to get pumped up and pull the trigger easier

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4567145 - 08/22/05 04:32 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

well, his actions don't lend himself to endearment.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: exclusive58]
    #4567149 - 08/22/05 04:33 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Way to get real specific there. You were in Iraq?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4567225 - 08/22/05 04:55 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Swami writes:

Quote:

I have not once retreated from a single prediction made on this forum. All have come true and only one remains unfulfilled.




Except for the prediction about who would end up the new Iraqi leader after the January elections, of course. And except for the one about Hussein not being brought to trial. He's not in the dock yet, but pre-trial motions and filings have been underway for quite a while now. So the jury's still out on that prediction, but I don't like your odds on getting that one right either. Unless someone manages to assassinate Hussein's ass before opening statements. Always a possibility.

Some Swami statements from the thread "Braveheart Bush" http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3684254/page//fpart/1/vc/1

post #3684389 --"How can anyone besides Allawi possibly win, even if the vote is totally "fair"? "

post #3684471 -- "Do you HONESTLY believe that anyone other than the American-backed Allawi has even a remote chance?"

post #3692118 -- "And of course, not you or anyone else that supports this farce will wager that anyone other than Allawi will be the head puppet; same as before."





Phred


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4567313 - 08/22/05 05:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Bush needs to get off his lazy cokeheaded ass and get our troops home so those sand eaters can commence killing each other in their "civil" war.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: daimyo]
    #4568122 - 08/22/05 08:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

what's it like to be enlightened?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
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Registered: 06/21/05
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: afoaf]
    #4568379 - 08/22/05 09:27 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

well i think this is the first time ive agreed with swami on ANYTHING.... not saying that i want it to happen but i honestly cant see this ending up any other way besides civil war, there are distinct differences between the three main groups and i doubt any of them will compromise with the others, especially the sunni's(saddam was a sunni right?) they hate the kurds and the other group with a fiery passion. theyll probably fake peace until the very last american is out of iraq. i really wish there could be peace in iraq but thats about as likely as bush admitting the real reasons we went to war.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4568775 - 08/22/05 10:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Well, if you continuously lower the standards of what any reasonable person would consider a full blown civil war NYC is in a state of civil war today.




http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2005814231422.asp

The current death rate in Iraq is 45 per 100,000 population. The Death Rate under Saddam averaged over 100/100,000. Iraq today is over twice as safe than under Saddam.

The Death Rate in Washington DC is comparable to that in Iraq. In the 1990's it ranged from 46.4 to 80.6.

I demand that we pull out of Washington immediately.

Is Washington is a state of civil war? Was Iraq in a state of civil war under Saddam? He was certainly quite fond of killing his own people.

I think that we are winning this war. I don't care if they fail to come up with a constitution today. Let them decide what they can agree on and what they can't agree on, and let that be the basis for another election. The next wave of elected politicians will include more Sunnis, because the Bathist Sunnis didn't vote the first time around and polls show that they regretted it.

Lets also remember that the Kurds are Sunni Muslims, which throws an interesting twist into the mix. It is a very complex situation, and in the end they will have to compromise. Civil War advocates think that compromise can't happen.

I happen to have a faith in free people. It is amazing what people can do when freed from the chains of bondage. I am for freedom, liberty and self determination. I have faith in my Iraqi brethren. People want to be free. They will find a solution.

Another post from Chicken Little. Guess what? The sky still isn't falling.


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Tastes just like chicken

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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4568789 - 08/22/05 10:43 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Zappa, I reread that post, and my intent was not to call you Chicken Little. That was meant for the "we want a civil war to prove Bush wrong faction".

Some of these people would cum in their pants if Iraq became a killing field like Cambodia after we pulled out of Indochina. The Left's biggest moments always seem to be the slaughter of millions of innocent people whose only crime was that they wanted freedom, liberty, and self determination.


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Tastes just like chicken

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OfflineJB201
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4569017 - 08/22/05 11:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I hope to god that Iraq doesn't fall into civil war, but chances are it will. Democracy certainly isn't working as of yet, infact Islam and democracy really don't go hand in hand. Besides we weren't told that we were going to Iraq to install a democracy, we were told we were going there to dissarm Saddam of his weapons of mass destruction. The Sunni's will never be happy with their neighbors, because they don't have the oil fields. The kurds have the majority of the oil fields, and the shiit's(spelling?) have a lesser amount of oil fields, but the sunni's are stuck in the middle left with nothing. Thats the major problem, and unless this problem is resolved, civil war will most likely ensue.

Yet another problem with Iraq is border security with the countries around Iraq. Thats where the insurgents are coming from, yet nobody in this administration seems to see this problem, or they are simply just ignoring it.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JB201]
    #4569217 - 08/23/05 12:20 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Regime change in Iraq, and installing a democracy has been part of US policy since the Clinton administration. Don't use "we" when you say "we were told". Read the resolution that Congress passed (which John Kerry voted for and John Edwards sponsored).

Read the resolution that Congress used to send us to war. It will tell you in point blank terms that democracy is the goal for Iraq.

That was always part of the plan. I can't for the life of me figure out how you missed it. Go back an look at the historical documents.

The truth will set you free.


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Tastes just like chicken

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4569220 - 08/23/05 12:21 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Some of these people would cum in their pants if Iraq became a killing field like Cambodia after we pulled out of Indochina. The Left's biggest moments always seem to be the slaughter of millions of innocent people whose only crime was that they wanted freedom, liberty, and self determination.

Unfortunately that's what tends to happen when you launch insane wars of aggression. It's a little harsh blaming the casualties on the people who told you not to go to war in the first place.

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4569232 - 08/23/05 12:23 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I wish the best for the Iraqis, and while I don't think it'll end up happily, I don't see the evidence for a civil war yet. It's a possibility, but the U.S. would put all of its energy into Iraq first, lest it actually admit itself a failure.

However, if both happen- the U.S. puts its energy into stopping the violence and discontent and the civil war erupts- we could end up with another Vietnam, and that would not bode well for the republicans.

Thinking in the long term though, this isn't a good thing either- we could end up with Hillary Clinton as president.  :oogle:

Shit Swami, if the situation in Iraq worsens, it's going to be a lose-lose situation for America anyway you look at it. Though it might help restore power to the democrats, thereby ensuring checks and balances, which may work out as a positive. Too many possibilities this messy situation can take...


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Alex213]
    #4569238 - 08/23/05 12:25 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I guess Pol Pot didn't have a thing to do with the killing of millions. All that blame lies with the thousands of Americans who sacrificed their lives so that those people could be free.

Never thought of that Alex. Good point.


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Tastes just like chicken

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OfflineTao
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Phred]
    #4569243 - 08/23/05 12:27 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I'm quite sure he also made a prediction about there being a sizeable domestic terrorist attack just before the 2004 U.S. election.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4569247 - 08/23/05 12:29 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

It was more to do with the US bombing cambodia back into the stone age, completely destroying it's society that led to the growth of extremists like Pol Pot.

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4569250 - 08/23/05 12:30 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Looks like the Swamster is on the button again...

Iraq's ruling coalition submitted a new constitution to parliament last night but delayed a vote for three days to try to win over Sunni Arabs who said it could lead to civil war.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1554619,00.html

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Ravus]
    #4569256 - 08/23/05 12:33 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Vietnam wasn't a civil war, it was a border way where North Vietnam ignored a treaty that they signed in Paris with the United States of America.

North Vietnam had Soviet tanks run on Soviet gas. They had tens of thousand of Soviet "advisers". Over 300,000 Red Chinese participated for the North Vietnamese in the slaughter.

It wasn't a Civil War. South Vietnam was an independent nation, and a democratic nation at that. The last free election in South Vietnam was over 40 years ago, and over 80% of the people voted. When the North Vietnamese took over, they slaughtered people and sent them to reeducation camps. That isn't a civil war, it was one communist nation beating up and killing a populace that yearned for freedom and self determination.


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Alex213]
    #4569266 - 08/23/05 12:38 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
It was more to do with the US bombing cambodia back into the stone age, completely destroying it's society that led to the growth of extremists like Pol Pot.




They didn't bomb population centers, they bombed the Ho Chi Mihn trail. Nice revisionist history.

Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia were all overrun by communists that slaughtered people. While all this happened, people on the "new left" were claiming "What domino theory?"

We didn't bomb Laos into the stone age. We didn't bomb South Vietnam into the stone age, and we didn't bomb Cambodia into the stone age.

Cambodian leaders at the time we supportive of the Nixon campaign to rid their country of Vietnamese communists.

We were fighting so that those people would never see that horror, and then we cut and run. It was a fucking slaughter, and the left has blood on their hands.

Who were the boat people?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4569297 - 08/23/05 12:56 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Indeed, there are massive differences between a potential Iraqi civil war and the War in Vietnam, but when I used the term I meant from an American perspective. This could turn into a war of attrition that just gets worse and worse with US casualities mounting and the price tag growing by the billions higher and higher until we finally decide it's not worth it.

It shouldn't be the US's job to be the world police, yet this War in Iraq is just another example of that. They posed no threat to us, yet we decided to waste tens of billions of dollars of my money, and your money, and every other American's money, to fight this pointless war. Instead of worrying about getting out, they should've been intelligent and not bothered to go in.

But the right might just be pouting because the left could be correct this time. At least the polls show the American people are getting fed up with it. And if it does explode into a civil war, or even just progressively worsens with time, this could help the American people think twice before deciding to be the world police again.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Phred]
    #4569414 - 08/23/05 03:18 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"And of course, not you or anyone else that supports this farce will wager that anyone other than Allawi will be the head puppet; same as before."

How come you didn't take the bet, Phred? I was correct that no one here would wager with me.

As I know you value fairness, quote my entire prediction: He will either not be tried or it will not be publicly held where all can view the facts, and the facts are that he had full and knowing US support during the years when he did the most heinous crimes. I am sure Bush and the CIA are eager for that to be revealed to the American public - NOT!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4569735 - 08/23/05 07:53 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

How would my winning a bet have made your prediction less wrong? Care to explain to the readers the reasoning behind that?

As for your prediction that Hussein will not be tried in public, clearly it is still too early to know that, as I noted in my previous post.

Quote:

2. Saddam will not be tried. As I have clearly stated after he was caught, there is too many past USA fuck-ups and CIA arms and weapons connections for him to ever be allowed to publicly speak on his behalf. IF we were SO certain about his crimes why does it take years and years? We will wait until he dies from natural causes, then say, "Well, we are just about ready to try him." If he is actually tried, it will NOT be public.




The reason for the delay in beginning the trial is probably the one given from the start -- that Hussein will be tried by the Iraqi people in a legal manner. No kangaroo court.

Now, one could argue that the current National Assembly legitimately represents the Iraqi people, and that the composition of the law courts as prescribed by the temporary constitution is a legitimate expression of the wishes of the Iraqi people, therefore the trial could have started as early as mid-February of this year. But from your many comments in the "Braveheart Bush" thread I linked to in my previous post, it is clear that you -- Swami -- are not one who finds that argument convincing.

So in order for his to trial be TRULY legitimately an affair of the Iraqi people in Swami's eyes, there must at the very least first be a constitution ratified by the Iraqi populace in a national referendum, and Hussein's trial must be conducted in accordance with that constitution.





Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4570173 - 08/23/05 10:12 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
"And of course, not you or anyone else that supports this farce will wager that anyone other than Allawi will be the head puppet; same as before."

How come you didn't take the bet, Phred? I was correct that no one here would wager with me.





What a fucking cop-out. Your prediction was wrong, but somehow you've still never made an incorrect guess? That makes little sense to me.

Also, someone not taking your bet does not turn and incorrect guess correct.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4570299 - 08/23/05 10:33 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

They didn't bomb population centers, they bombed the Ho Chi Mihn trail. Nice revisionist history

Nothing revisionist about it. The US dropped more bombs on Indochina than it dropped during World War II. You don't think that might have a destabilising effect on an already poor area of the world?

We didn't bomb Laos into the stone age. We didn't bomb South Vietnam into the stone age, and we didn't bomb Cambodia into the stone age.


80 million cluster bombs dropped on Laos alone. More bombs dropped on the Quang Tri province in Vietnam than in the whole of Europe in World War II.

We were fighting so that those people would never see that horror, and then we cut and run

I see. Dropping 80 million cluster bombs on them was protecting them from "horror" was it.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Phred]
    #4570321 - 08/23/05 10:39 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The reason for the delay in beginning the trial is probably the one given from the start -- -- that Hussein will be tried by the Iraqi people in a legal manner

Currently he isn't even being held by the Iraqi people.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4570346 - 08/23/05 10:45 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Draft "blueprint for civil war"

Iraq's new constitution, supposedly the blueprint for a democratic future, was threatening to drag the country into civil war last night.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article307663.ece

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Alex213]
    #4570547 - 08/23/05 11:38 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Alex213 writes:

Quote:

Currently he isn't even being held by the Iraqi people.




And this means he won't be tried in an Iraqi court of law? Would you care to explain to the readers how this follows?




Phred


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Phred]
    #4570738 - 08/23/05 12:35 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

If the severity of the situation did not convince the Iraqis to agree on a government and not kill each other my response would be, well it was a nice idea. It had a good chance, but didn't pan out because I guess Middle Eastern people have such a hard time acting civilized, US troops have a hard time not pissing off locals, and the US public is too weak willed to resist influence by ongoing terrorist attacks.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Phred]
    #4570885 - 08/23/05 01:04 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

And this means he won't be tried in an Iraqi court of law?

One step at a time. Lets see if he ever becomes a prisoner held by Iraq as opposed to being held on a US military base in a foreign country first.

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OfflineSycronica
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4570935 - 08/23/05 01:13 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Such pretty words: freedom, democracy, liberation, constitution. All window dressing and all bullshit. Unless you lower your standards of course, which high school social studies does for us. This isn't my idea of freedom, so how do you think completely different cultures are going to feel when they find out those are all just pretty words? They are going to be pissed and blow stuff up, it will be civil war there soon enough as they realize they aren't going to be happy with what we set up. Do I WANT this to happen? Hell no. This is why I hate bush, because I do NOT want these things to happen that his cronies have caused.

It's not the other way around, no one wants bad things to happen because we hate bush, we hate bushco because THEY are causing the bad things to happen. But go ahead and tell yourself whatever makes it easier for you to accept a wholesale rape of a population who has done nothing to ask for it.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Sycronica]
    #4570962 - 08/23/05 01:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

If the muslim clerics get their way women are going to have a whole lot fewer rights in the "new, free Iraq"(TM) than they did under Saddam.

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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Alex213]
    #4571007 - 08/23/05 01:34 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The blessing of democracy.


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You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
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Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4571025 - 08/23/05 01:41 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MagicalMystery said:
Actually, if the insurgents are attacking us, it's not a civil war. They'd have to be killing their own countrymen for it to be civil.



They have been killing their own countrymen......the insurgents have killed far more Iraqis than they have American soldiers.


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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4571077 - 08/23/05 01:54 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

There is no democracy being set up in Iraq. They're deriving everything from Islam, real original


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4852921 - 10/25/05 11:18 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I have not once retreated from a single prediction made on this forum. All have come true and only one remains unfulfilled. I stand by my long-predicted civil war in Iraq. It is already in progress with near-daily killings, but when the new constitution fails to please the three major factions - chaos and more bloodshed will reign in a "free and democratic" Iraq.

How will the war-supporters then justify the invasion?




The constitution that you speak of just passed. Sorry bout your luck.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4853858 - 10/26/05 08:32 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

With a little help from the vote-riggers.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Alex213]
    #4853874 - 10/26/05 08:41 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

call al gore.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

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America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Alex213]
    #4854085 - 10/26/05 10:06 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I still have not seen anything substantial showing that the vote was rigged.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Redstorm]
    #4855164 - 10/26/05 03:31 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Swami, alas, (and I mean that) has I think been eradicated forever due to his addiction to trolling wimps in one of the S&M or G&L or P&C, whatever forums. Too bad.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4856095 - 10/26/05 06:47 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Swami, alas, (and I mean that) has I think been eradicated forever due to his addiction to trolling wimps in one of the S&M or G&L or P&C, whatever forums. Too bad.




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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4859834 - 10/27/05 03:30 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

JC, are you unaware of the news? Yes, the constituion was ratified, but the violence is still increasing - as predicted.

Which is more important? A document or more and more dead bodies? What magical power will this piece of paper have when chaos and bloodshed is accelerating?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4860020 - 10/27/05 04:19 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, the constituion was ratified, but the violence is still increasing - as predicted.




I'm going to request a credible source showing the violence is "increasing" since the referendum was held. My admittedly unscientific method of scanning all major media sources available on the internet several times each day for reports from Iraq has shown the reverse to be the case, but I will admit you are correct if presented with proof.





Phred


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #4860062 - 10/27/05 04:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

dodge


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: Swami]
    #8638438 - 07/15/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
JC, are you unaware of the news? Yes, the constituion was ratified, but the violence is still increasing - as predicted.

Which is more important? A document or more and more dead bodies? What magical power will this piece of paper have when chaos and bloodshed is accelerating?





Swami?



anybody?


Bueller?...


Bueller?...


Bueller?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Countdown to full-blown Iraqi Civil War [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8638558 - 07/15/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldn't rule out anything until after the US forces have left the area... We've seen what happens with premature Mission Accomplished type statements.


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