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OfflineTheCrawlingKing
Lost Soul

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 982
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate?
    #4566488 - 08/22/05 03:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well, to make a long story short, I fucked up during Easter after tripping twice within the the space of three days, and being stoned pretty much constantly in between. I was with a friend who I hadn't seen in ages, and in a completely unfamiliar setting. Everything was fine for awhile, I even managed to get extremely good marks in the exams I took during May.

However, in June I started to experience mild symptoms of HPPD; floaters, static vision, blurring, things breathing, faint geometric patterns, and so on. I kept this to myself because as many of you are aware, most doctors, and even psychiatrists, aren't educated about it at all in medical school.

Around late June I started having severe panic attacks, during which ths hit really did hit the metaphorical fan. I'm unsure what brought these on, although I believe it them to have been due to stress -- probably from the constant, trip-induced ringing noise inside my ears and visual side of things. Overall, I think it was the fear of losing control.

And put simply, since then it's been like having a bad trip 24/7. I am unable to sleep, concentrate for extended amounts of time, my memory definitely feels reduced, and I have felt anxious, suicidal, and depressed, continuously. My dreams are extremely intense; I have trouble separating them from reality, sometimes. I get extremely deep and painful thoughts about existance all the time, which makes it increasingly hard for me to function properly. It feels as though my mind is on autopilot, and that I am not truly in control of my actions. Almost like being a clockwork toy in society's toy box, if you will.

The worst thing is, everyone who I try explaining my symptoms to calls me a hypochondriac. I tried telling my parents, and, despite my telling them of the pot and mushrooms in May, they say things like "everyone has periods of self-doubt". My mother even went as far as arranging a job for me, because she thought it would 'help'. I am declining all of my friend's offers to do stuff, which is also painful, because I keep failing like I'm letting them down.

This is the worst I have ever felt in my life. If it wasn't for my eight year old brother, I would probably have killed myself by now. I have consulted a doctor only to be initially referred to an eye doctor. After I got referred to a psychiatrist by that very same eye-doctor, I was told that I was suffering from what commonly is known as 'depersonalization disorder', which is probably permanent. It was the initial meeting, so nothing has been prescribed yet... I'll have to wait until Sept 7 before any chance of that.

Does anyone know where I should go from here? Can anyone else speak of similar things happen to them after bad trips? What medication could I utilise to try and nullify the feelings (I'm probably going to ask for some serotonergic promoters like Prozac)?

Sorry this is written so incoherently, it's so hard to describe my feelings accurately.


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4566642 - 08/22/05 04:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

In my opinion it would be better to be abstinant from drugs for a while, to meditate upon your "disorder" and the visions and thoughts it is giving you, and to wait for things to level out.

RX drugs would help, but you got into this problem in the first place from taking drugs... I can't really relate to this too much except from anxiety attacks, and those are squarely from the pot. I do get tracers/vivid nightime visuals (and deep thought patterns) that last a while after doing even tiny amounts of LSA, but I view them as somewhat neutral.

HPPD shouldn't usually last longer than a few months... as for depersonalization disorder, well.... I think many people who use psychedelics could be labeled that... I certainly feel detached from the outside world very much, it only really got bad once because I wasn't sleeping enough and was doing too much weed....

But anything doctor's prescriptions can do for you, time can do better the right way. Could you give an example of the types of thoughts you have, and how they contribute to your depression? The goal IMO is to not stop having HPPD symptoms, but rather to get rid of the negativity they leave you with so that you will notice them less and less until they subside.

and if you do go on prescription drugs make sure you speak to a psychiatrist who really KNOWS the subject of psychedelic drug related problems very well... I'm thinking anti-psychotics are what you're looking for rather than anti-depressants.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (08/22/05 04:03 PM)


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OfflineTheCrawlingKing
Lost Soul

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 982
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: leery11]
    #4566693 - 08/22/05 04:18 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the helpful advice man, it's always good to hear advice of people who have actually experienced psychedelics themsevles. You seem quite experienced in the matter.

As for the type of thoughts, they are for the most part a hypervigilance about my surroundings. I question everything; existance, society, people, etc. I would say that they are very similar to the deep, spontaneous thoughts you achieve when taking shrooms and other psychedelics. The problem is that they are all extremely skeptical and depressing thoughts. Like I said before, a bad trip 24/7.

I told a certain friend that I thought that nothing was real, and to a certain extent, I do. It's like there is a pane of glass between my mind and me, things which used to come naturally to me before (like what to do in social situations) have been lost. I must appear to people as thought I am drunk/high constantly. It's horrible.

I think that a lot of the problem is caused by anxiety. I keep thiking to myself that it's only a matter of time before I finally go ever the edge and lose my sanity. I have so many things expected of me, and next year may possibly be the most important year in my life as I hope to maintain my grades so I can make it to university. I feel under so much goddamn pressure, all the time.

This is where the depression stems from, I think. The feeling that I will never get better. All I think about is how intelligent I used to be before I meddled with drugs, how much life I used to live, and how many possibilities laid before me. Now all that is gone, I keep seeing a life of misery and failure ahead of me.


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4567209 - 08/22/05 06:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

ull feel better man.
this is just a period that ur parents where telling u about.

Someone told me something that i feel helped me.
He said to live life and enjoy everyday in it.
when u keep thinking of death u will thrive on the wat u know will happen and it
scares the hell outa u.
But theres more that u dont know.
Just die once man not over and over in ur mind.


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4567356 - 08/22/05 07:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheCrawlingKing said:
Thanks for the helpful advice man, it's always good to hear advice of people who have actually experienced psychedelics themsevles. You seem quite experienced in the matter.



no man don't get me wrong, i've only done LSA, dxm, and weed.... but I mean, I've experienced lasting after effects from all of them.

Quote:


I told a certain friend that I thought that nothing was real, and to a certain extent, I do. It's like there is a pane of glass between my mind and me, things which used to come naturally to me before (like what to do in social situations) have been lost. I must appear to people as thought I am drunk/high constantly. It's horrible.




Yeah I feel this way a lot sometimes, but it does gradually lessen... I can totally relate about not thinking anything is real, and have had that pretty severely sometimes, but you just have to remind yourself that things "are" real, and maybe make something up like "they only seem unreal because people live fake lives and are concerned with trivial things" (but don't let that get you depressed)

I also sometimes think that I can't walk straight, which is bothersome and happens after LSA use, but I'm not sure how noticeable it is or if I even do it anymore.

Quote:


I think that a lot of the problem is caused by anxiety. I keep thiking to myself that it's only a matter of time before I finally go ever the edge and lose my sanity. I have so many things expected of me, and next year may possibly be the most important year in my life as I hope to maintain my grades so I can make it to university. I feel under so much goddamn pressure, all the time.

This is where the depression stems from, I think. The feeling that I will never get better. All I think about is how intelligent I used to be before I meddled with drugs, how much life I used to live, and how many possibilities laid before me. Now all that is gone, I keep seeing a life of misery and failure ahead of me.




you don't sound stupid at all, you're just more concerned with other things now. Are you still in High School? Honestly you shouldn't have to work that hard to get into a normal university..... Bs and As and the occasional C.... even Ds can get you into state universities... and from there you just have to keep a C average and you can get your degrees.

School shouldn't be hard, no matter how hard the classes are, there are ways to "beat" the system without really stressing too much... you might have to read a lot, and study a lot, but just think of it like a game.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4567362 - 08/22/05 07:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Look up the posts of a guy named LUCID, he had a similar problem.


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OfflineTheCrawlingKing
Lost Soul

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 982
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: leery11]
    #4567437 - 08/22/05 07:57 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
School shouldn't be hard, no matter how hard the classes are, there are ways to "beat" the system without really stressing too much... you might have to read a lot, and study a lot, but just think of it like a game.




I've always been considered intelligent, precocious for my age, even. I don't think that passing the exams will be an issue, the motivation, however, will be. Once I can get past this terrible hurdle and I am able to focus, I think that everything will be all right. But yes, I am in the last year of the European equivalent of high school, if you want to put it that way.

Quote:

SubGen1us said:
ull feel better man.
this is just a period that ur parents where telling u about.

Someone told me something that i feel helped me.
He said to live life and enjoy everyday in it.




I welcome your advice, but I also understand that it is not as simple as that. When there is a chemical imbalance in your brain, you are thinking anything BUT this. I feel as though I may have done some damage to certain neurotransmitters, which in turn has brought about this condition.

Quote:

TheHateCamel said:
Look up the posts of a guy named LUCID, he had a similar problem.




Well, shit. It turns out that guy had a very similar problem to me and was eventually institutionalised, never to be heard of again. Check this out:

"Hi Everyone,
Had some great times here n learned a lot.
Alas, they're taking me to the nut hut tomorrow
probably to thro me in some dungon with ball n chains.
No, I'm not a Heroin addict, or Crack addict, Never taken
E or any "street" drugs (even quit booze 6 months ago)
my only mistake was that I took shooms ONCE (2 yrs ago)
and it spawned an unbrearable reaction that took my life away from me
(literally, life savings, jobs, girl friend, but most of all
my love of the little things in life like feeling an inate
joy in life and flowers and trees and mountains and lakes)
I'm a completely different person now, lifeless and miserable.
I DO NOT CONDONE TAKING SHROOMS, they just had a very Traumatic
affect on me. If u don't hear from me in a week or so, and u
feel like doing a kind deed come and get me out of the Douglas
Institute or Foster Pavillion in Montreal (don't know where they're
taking me yet). I'm going to post this in S&P and mental health
(I realize it's a double post, but I hope the mods will tolerate it,
it may well be my last...)
love to all
lucid "

I really am verging upon despondency, here.  :confused:


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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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Registered: 11/24/04
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4567537 - 08/22/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

You're not a hypochondriac. The feelings of depersonalisation, derealization and anxiety are a normal consequence of an unintegrated bad trip you've had. This is also the reason why you are dreaming so intensely. During the trip a lot of subconscious material was recovered but not dealt with or not completely resolved before the end of the trip. You subconsciousness is now working on that during your dreams.

You can recover but it will take some work, motivation and time.


I suggest you start by taking care of yourself.  :heart: Avoid all stressful situations and people; stop using all drugs and stimulants (including caffeine!, sugar and alcohol). Take long walks alone, read books, listen to calming music, watch sunsets, get plenty of sleep, maybe even start your own garden (don't grow pot as of yet). If you don't feel like having fun or spend time with your friends, you don't have to. There's no reason to pretend or to force your-self into feeling better. Let your friends know how you feel and they will understand. Find joy in small things for now. It's important to do most of this so you may get some structure and routine back into your life, which will ground you and give you back a sense of control and safety.

During this time start to work on your feelings of anxiety and depression. I know they might seem to be irresolvable, but they are. I suggest you take a look at the following to pages for some professional advice on these issues:

http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/
http://www.johnfishbein.com/FeelBetterFast/Fishbein/table.of.contents.html
http://front.csulb.edu/tstevens/hcontent.htm

If you think you would need medication for this condition, I suggest you try herbs first. They will not solve your problems (nor will meds) but they can help stabilize you if your emotions or feelings of derealization get out of hand.

Herbs for anxiety: http://www.wholehealthmd.com/hc/resourceareas_supp/1,1442,430,00.html
Herbs for depression: http://www.wholehealthmd.com/hc/resourceareas_supp/1,1442,453,00.html

It would also be good for you if you started to meditate and keep a dream log
, which you would then analyse each morning. As said before a lot of material is rising from your subconsciousness and you will eventually need to integrate it. Analysing dreams is the best way to go.

If through time you feel strong and grounded enough but still fight with unresolved issues from this trip I suggest you try to trip again  :mushroom2: in a safe environment with a sitter or face the unresolved issues using hyperventilation. This is what LSD psychotherapist Stanislav Grof wrote about this kind of situations (LSD Psychotherapy, p.148):

---

Sometimes the integration of the [LSD] session takes days or weeks. It is important to encourage the client to keep the emotional channels open and continue the uncovering process, rather than try to shut them off prematurely by psychological means or with tranquillizers.

When the spontaneous process does not have enough dynamic strength to complete itself, the sitters should do intense activating work with the client? An interesting alternative to the approach? is use of prolonged hyperventilation? Intense breathing, continued for a period of about thirty to forty-five minutes, tends to collect the tensions in the body into a stereotyped pattern of armoring and eventually release them. This is associated with activation of important material from various levels of the unconsciousness. This is a very effective way of clearing residual problems after a psychedelic experience. The use of this technique requires certain background information and special instructions? [the technique is named Holotropic Breathwork; see www.holotropic.com for details. ]

If neither of the above techniques brings a satisfactory psychological resolution, another psychedelic session should be scheduled as soon as possible. The general principle applied here might seem paradoxical to a conventional psychiatrist. Psychedelic therapy can be discontinued at any tie after a successful session that was well integrated. If it resulted in an intensification of clinical symptoms or a prolonged reaction, continuation of therapy is indicated. The basic ideas is that this is not due to some unpredictable effect of LSD, but represents an unfinished unconscious gestalt that should be completed.

---


You can get better, but it's up to you! Good luck! :thumbup:


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4567610 - 08/22/05 08:45 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Terrific advice. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineTheCrawlingKing
Lost Soul

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 982
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4567663 - 08/22/05 08:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Indeed, and I am just as greatly appreciative of all the advice given to me in this thread. I will try and encompass all of it, and I hope that things will get better over time, or at least stabilise.

But redtailedhawk, might I ask if you too have undergone such feelings? I am still rather skeptical as to whether full recovery is ever possible. I fear as though I have seen too much. I think it was Nietzsche who talked about people looking into the abyss and having the abyss stay present with them.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice more than you'll probably ever know, and more than I'll ever be able to express.    :sun:


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Edited by TheCrawlingKing (08/22/05 08:58 PM)


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4567677 - 08/22/05 08:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

it sounds like you're going to be changed forever.

however it is up to you whether that change is positive or negative, and how extreme it is.

I mean, you can learn that life isn't real and it's just a dream, but still go back to being normal. (or does that mean you didn't "learn?" that's what my first two MG trips showed me, and it messed with my head a bit)

i think drugs enlighten you without enlightenment... meaning you eventually go back, but it teaches you things you haven't seen before... so i don't think it should be anything too drastic, you just have to hang in there and work through your issues.....


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (08/22/05 08:56 PM)


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Offlineheadset
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: leery11]
    #4567924 - 08/22/05 09:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Bottom line, its up to you to reinvent yourself seeing as you best see fit. No, that doesnt mean dropping out..

There's a role for everyone to play in our overprivledged society. It took me 4-5 years to come to grips with taking responsibility for my consumption, actions and future since i went through extreme depersonalization.

It'll end, focus on your body as your temple and comfort yourself with existential philosophy.

There's only so much thinking, and never any conclusions. Only time will tell - make the best of it.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: headset]
    #4568050 - 08/22/05 10:19 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Just let go and flow with it.


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4569908 - 08/23/05 10:53 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Been in almost the same exact situation.

Time heals all wounds. It took me about a year but my situation was a bit more extreme.


Don't think this is something that will stick with you forever. Lay off the drugs for a bit, read a book, go enjoy a nice hike, take a pretty lady to a picnic and love the wonderful things in life for awhile.

Pick up a hobby or start where you left off with an old one.

Just be yourself and don't dwell on it. It'll only make your head spin.

Take care of yourself,

s2


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: TheCrawlingKing]
    #4570635 - 08/23/05 01:57 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Hi
i used to be really into psychedelic drugs to the point where i became very disconnected from the world around me. it had me down for awhile. then I got better. my advice is to distract yourself from your chattering thoughts as much as possible, exercise, hobbies, friends, whatever. It sounds like you're kind of a slave to your wandering mind right now and you need a good body connection to ground yourself. if you're doing drugs now, stop, and start doing laps around the block or push-ups or something. get your control back, rent some funny movies and relax


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: Grav]
    #4570797 - 08/23/05 02:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Red Tailed Hawk is right. I had a similar experience, but it went away in time and I found out most of my percieved sensory distortion was really just me been paranoid about ordinary stuff. For instance, floaters are always there. They have been there all my life, and we all see faint patterns in the dark, static, etc. After a while stuff will stop breathing too. I think it's the mental motion of the trip that makes thins seem to breath. The more 'sober' your mind becomes again the more solid things will look.

But really what this comes down to is integration. In time you will be able to reconcile your experience with normal life and experience. It's hard at first because some revelations, esp. of the depersonalizing kind can be very disorienting and unerving. But trust me, you grow from all of it and end up stronger. Unless you never stop worrying about it you will eventually feel stable having integrated the expereince. It took me almost a year, but I think as result my mind is stronger and more mature and my perspective is alot broader. You just need time to make peace with what happened and everything will be fine.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleNewbie
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4570975 - 08/23/05 03:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I know exactly how you feel man, I went through a very dark period of depression, self-loathing, and hatred toward the world. I was able to bring myself out of it the same way I went into it. Just open your mind. That's cool that you're mom gave you that advice...it's good advice and I can see she cared enough to help you with that job. My problem when I was depressed was the feeling that nobody cared...try to use that as a medicine, that no matter how bad you feel there's someone who wants to make you feel better.


Edited by Newbie (08/23/05 03:25 PM)


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: Newbie]
    #4571709 - 08/23/05 07:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NewbieShroomie said:
try to use that as a medicine, that no matter how bad you feel there's someone who wants to make you feel better.




that might be one of the coolest things i've ever heard.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: leery11]
    #4571932 - 08/23/05 08:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheCrawlingKing said:
But redtailedhawk, might I ask if you too have undergone such feelings? I am still rather skeptical as to whether full recovery is ever possible. I fear as though I have seen too much. I think it was Nietzsche who talked about people looking into the abyss and having the abyss stay present with them.




I have undergone all of the feelings you are talking about; years of depression with feelings of existential dread and thoughts of suicide, chronic anxiety with panic attacks and feelings of derealization. Since all this feelings are a normal human response to chronic levels of stress, they can all be overcomed and successfully integrated.

You may never be the same as you once were, but that doesn't matter. If you follow the advice given to you on this tread I'm sure you will in time become grounded, compassionate and content human being.

As for the abyss, it too can be best contained - as others already noticed - if and one you get grounded (physical exercises, gardening, sex, body-based meditations, exercises for the opening of lower charkas, tree-hugging, etc.).


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Trip-induced anxiety, depression, and depersonalization disorder, can anyone else relate? [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4572134 - 08/23/05 09:07 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

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--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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