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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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New avatar, Swami?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Nova [Re: Veritas]
#4556131 - 08/19/05 05:02 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: But, if we consider the possibility that the Universe is holographic, then even the tiniest part contains all of the whole.
Yes darling, That's what I meant. My life can break, but the whole remains complete. I love you sweetie.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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No, I meant that our individual lives, while fleeting, are as meaningful as the Universe.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Nova [Re: Veritas]
#4556146 - 08/19/05 05:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Or as meaningless.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Nova [Re: Veritas]
#4556151 - 08/19/05 05:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Gottcha! Of course. My life is equal to everything else because it's a part of the energy of life. Tao! Tao@ Tao# Tao? Tao$ Tao% Tao^ Tao*
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Nova [Re: Ravus]
#4556163 - 08/19/05 05:12 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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GIGO
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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thanks for posting this
can't wait to watch it.
-------------------- "What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
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Re: Nova [Re: Veritas]
#4557475 - 08/20/05 12:34 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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meaningful vs. meaningless depends on angle of perception methinks IOW, they are one ?
-------------------- "consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Nova [Re: Ravus]
#4558872 - 08/20/05 11:45 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: Are we alone?
The Rare Earth hypothesis seems to be worthy of looking at. Wouldn't that be a trip if there was no other life out there, no God or gods, no consciousness- just us animals on this earth, the only examples of Darwinism in the universe?
I've gone on record a few times saying that because we don't have any evidence to the contrary we should assume that Earth is the only planet in existence with Life on it. With that assumption in mind, we should take it upon ourselves as a species (being the FIRST species able to) to spread Life to other planets. First in this solar system, and then throughout the galaxy.
It doesn't even have to be intelligent Life, at least not at first. As long as we can get something off the planet, alive, and set up on another world...I think we'll have done our job
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Nova [Re: trendal]
#4558922 - 08/20/05 12:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey Tren,
I was thinking about that a few weeks ago. What would it take to start a small garden in a dome on the moon? Hauling water and carbon monoxide to it was the biggest challenge that came to mind. Solar panels could be used to keep them warm and to run sprinkler systems for watering. I was thinking if we could get a bunch of domed in gardens over time, I was wondering if, when you had enough, if you lifted the domes, the plants and trees would or could start creating an atmosphere like on earth.
Any one know of science working on anything like that?
I was also just wondering what it would be like to be the first human child not born on earth.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/20/05 12:10 PM)
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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The moon is far too small (not enough gravity) to hold on to an atmosphere - so even if you could create one (not so far fetched...) it wouldn't stay around for too long. It would just kind of "evaporate" away into space.
That's actually what happened to Mars. It used to have a nice, thick atmosphere. Probably similar to Earth's atmosphere, at one point. Mars is just too small, though, to hold on to an atmosphere like that. It still has an atmosphere today, but it is quite thin and made almost entirely of carbon dioxide.
There's actually quite a few ideas for terraforming Mars into an Earth-like world. The idea goes something like this:
-seed the planet with bacteria and alga -start pumping large ammounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, to thicken it up a little -seed the planet with primitive plant life - green alge and such - which will begin to convert the CO2 atmosphere into one with oxygen -introduce more complex plant life, to continue producing oxygen -introduce simple animal life, insects and the like -finally, introduce your air-breathing humans to the planet!
This would take hundreds of years to do, though. If not a thousand or more.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Now what I meant by "spread Life" is just that - spread Life in some form. It doesn't have to be complex Life. It doesn't even have to be oxygen-breathing Life.
It could just be simple bacteria, to start. We are easily approaching the time where we can genetically engineer bacteria into pretty much anything we want (a good portion of consumer drugs and such are already produced by genetically engineered bacteria). We could engineer a bacteria so that Mars would be the perfect environment for it to thrive in...then seed Mars with this bacteria.
With Life being as resilient and tough as it seems to be on Earth...I don't think it would be too long before simple bacteria evolved into a biosphere on whatever planet we happen to stick them on.
Now obviously that leaves us Humans behind...but I don't think that's such a big problem. The differences in getting simple bacteria to live on another planet and getting Humans to live on the same planet are astoundingly huge. We could probably have a simple bacterial biosphere on Mars within the decade, if we put ourselves to the task. Getting the place suitable for Humans to live on would take hundreds, or thousands, of years.
That's another hundred or thousand years in which we could destroy ourselves (and all possibility of helping Life off the planet)...get smashed into by an asteroid...have a super-volcano erupt...any number of things. A scientist with the Royal Observatory in London recently wrote (in Science) that the chances of Humans surviving the next 100 years are about 1 in 2. A 50% survival rate isn't that great
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Nova [Re: trendal]
#4558983 - 08/20/05 12:22 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I bet before that happens on mars, science will figure out a way to manipulate the electromagnetic field of the moon to increase gravity.
They just have to crack the code on how the two are tied together.
I think I am more focussed on the moon because we could make it happen quicker because of the closer proximity for getting supplies to it.
Sucks Einstein died. It's my understanding that's what he was mostly working on in the end of his career.
Any thoughts?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Yeah Einstein spend the last few decades of his life searching for what we call the "Grand Unified Theory", or the "Theory of Everything".
A theory that would be able to explain all the processes of nature in one framework (or one equation).
While this would certainly get us a lot closer to being able to manipulate gravity (in much the way that we currently manipulate the EM force) it wouldn't give us the rediculous amount of energy that would be needed to alter gravity on even a small scale.
Also, altering the gravity of the Moon would probably spell the end of Life back here on Earth...don't forget that because the Moon is so close we feel its gravity all the time (think of the tides). The Moon and the Earth have, over the past 4 billion years, entered into what is called "tidal lock" - a form of synchronous movement which is why the SAME side of the moon ALWAYS points at the Earth (the Moon's rotation is tidal-locked to its orbit around the Earth).
Any change in this system would cause dramatic effects on both the Earth and Moon. It could very likely pull the Moon out of orbit and cause it to crash into the Earth. Not something I'd like to be around for, mind you
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Nova [Re: trendal]
#4559089 - 08/20/05 12:42 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sounds like it would make for an awesome Sci Fi flick huh? Imagine the panic on earth when it starts for a head on collision with the moon.
So, what to have for plan B? Ah yes, algae on mars.
I'm to impatient.
Science may accomplish such a goal more quickly if they figure out interstellar travel with worm holes so we can find a planet that is good to go already.
NOVA had an awesome show on inter stellar travel about a year back. I know science is working on it too. Which will happen first? At least with the second proposition, it's more probable to see us colonize another planet in my life time.
Wierd to think I may have great to great great grandchildren born on another planet someday.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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I'm to impatient.
You and me both!!!
That's probably the main reason I want to see real AI (or AS, diploid) invented SOON!
Get the pace of innovation to speed up a few powers ten
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Nova [Re: trendal]
#4559182 - 08/20/05 01:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said: Get the pace of innovation to speed up a few powers ten
I'll get right to it Trendal!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Nova [Re: trendal]
#4559314 - 08/20/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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So you're a cosmist too?
It's really the only way; humans are much too primitive to become truely great on a galactic scale, in my opinion, without the help of advanced artifical intelligence.
I saw some scientists' papers on ideas to flood Mars with extremely powerful greenhouse gases, the type that would devastate Earth's atmosphere but would be perfect for Mars.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Nova [Re: Ravus]
#4559902 - 08/20/05 04:46 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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I saw some scientists' papers on ideas to flood Mars with extremely powerful greenhouse gases, the type that would devastate Earth's atmosphere but would be perfect for Mars.
Cars that fail the smog test will be rocketed to Mars and left idling for a hundred years or so.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Nova [Re: Swami]
#4560102 - 08/20/05 05:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Indeed, once we can get humans on Mars polluting and sending toxic smoke out into the environment, I'm sure it'll be fine.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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