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OfflineJabbawaya

Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 1,479
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: tomk]
    #4556217 - 08/19/05 07:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tomk said:
Yeah but his trips are 'the trips' in our subconscious mind.  Since he was tripping when we were all cum in our daddies balls and eggs in our mommies wombs, his earlier trips greatly affect the character of our trips via imprinting through collective unconscious. 

He isn't an egomaniac. 

:rolleyes:




:smile: :thumbup:


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: Jabbawaya]
    #4556238 - 08/19/05 07:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That is such a strange notion. I know it's not your idea so I don't want to say you sound like an idiot but I mean consider that native societies of Mexico, central and south america have been regularly using mushrooms and other natural hallucinogens for uh, well, only about several thousand years before Terence McKenna was himself ever a sperm in his daddie's nuts.

If people influence the collective unconscious or whatever you are suggesting then just by the weight of statistics the amount of influence anyone from modern times has on the ongoing trip experience is probably the same as the influence one ant has on the topography of a desert.

I throw the whole idea away though. My trips are my trips and Terence McKenna's trips are his trips and they have little to do with each other besides the general change psylocybin has on the human brain. The specifics of our trips and the meanings behind them are unique to each individual and it offends me when I hear Terence McKenna explaining specifically what each drug does to me. It's not even something worthy of debate because it's just not right, I don't experience hyperbolic machine elves or whatever the hell he describes, that's just not correct, end of debate.


--------------------
youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


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Offlineiambobby
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Registered: 07/22/05
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4556476 - 08/19/05 09:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Its healthy to have a selective vision/hearing/intake of whatever, when dealing with life. Without it, the infinite could be somewhat overwhelming... You get offended for Terrence limiting the psychedelic experience while others get offended for you limiting the TM one.

Around and around it goes until we realise we're talking the same intention with different variables. Now when I hear really out there stuff I take it as entertainment and not an offense. I just think "wow how different to be in his world!" and at the same time I get a really strong feeling we're actually experiencing the same thing.

Is it any more correct to say what is correct then to say you will experience visuals of xeegoogaguniche combined with the overwhelming sensation of zeepligny?? I think not yes maybe.


--------------------
Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: iambobby]
    #4556690 - 08/19/05 10:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not following you but all I can say is I am not limiting anything. Terence McKenna is limiting things and it offends me because he passes himself off not just as an entertainer but as some sort of superior authority on the significance behind the psychedelic experience.

Terence McKenna says:
well Datura trips are all about magic
and DMT trips are all about the circus archetype
and Mushroom trips are all about alien intelligence and the apocalypse
etc. etc.

what he should be saying is
usually my Datura trips are about magic
and usually my DMT trips are all about the circus
etc..etc..

I respect the guy for a lot of reasons and he has a real gift with language and communication but to what he says as absolute stuff about this and that just reeks of projection of his own personal quirks and interests and that kind of projection is a symptom of having a big ego.


--------------------
youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: iambobby]
    #4556694 - 08/19/05 10:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah if you think about it wherever you take up your vision, you are reading the next line in the story. Even the distractions and all that. Every book is about the same thing, using language like fluid to wrap around it. Every author used the here and now to right his book.

Quote:

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.




Exactly! Whew if only people understood this concept and could apply it to their lives.

Ummmm... Reread and listen to Terrence McKenna. You are talking about the same thing. We are all, always talking about the same thing. You don't follow Bobby because you don't want to, you won't give what he says a chance. Think about it. You are limiting Terrence by saying he said the trips are only a certain way. I think, were he alive, he would without a doubt say that not all his DMT trips were a circus. In fact, I know he knows set and setting, so just chill. Don't take anything for everything, words are never set in stone. As others say take what want. You only miss out when you throw it all away and label Terrence as an egomaniac. All you could do is listen and try and learn or you could reject and disagree ith it and LEARN NOTHING. I still don't know where you get that he put it in stone what happens when you trip. This is crazy to think, and all the McKenna stuff I have read and listened to does not support what you say.


Edited by mecreateme (08/19/05 10:26 PM)


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
i'm left. youall can bite me
Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: mecreateme]
    #4556769 - 08/19/05 10:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

ok well I don't have the time or energy to begin transcribing his lengthy recordings but I have listened to a lot of them from the hemperor's page and the series that bugged me the most is called Tree of Knowledge.  He always gives the same story when he talks about DMT though, in every mp3 I've heard where he talks about DMT.  "A person on DMT goes to the inside of a flying saucer where self-dribbling jeweled basketballs come near and they vomit forth extraterrestrial toys that resemble faberge eggs...." Now I have never done DMT so I can't comment if this matches my own experience or not but where he does describe tripping experiences on other drugs it only matches what i have experienced on occasion, about what probability alone would predict, so i'm highly skeptical about his DMT description as being what others experience, and it's very convinient that the one he is the most specific about as being a fixed repeating tripping experience is the drug that is most difficult to obtain and most difficult to remember.

I don't throw away all his ideas.  I agree with a hell of a lot of what he says but I mean it's more interesting to me to discuss the things that I don't agree with than to be another pothead talking like "dood!  terence mckenna was smart!" :stoned:


--------------------
youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4557000 - 08/20/05 12:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

For sure, I am all for group learning. I like to question to help people along their way. It is called the Socratic Method.

Did he ever say that all experiences are this? It is the same thing that happens. Did he explicitly state that all experiences are the same, because this seems to be what you are perturbed by so much? I have never heard him say anything to that degree. Language is very fluid, what is alien abduction is mystical religious to another. Those are only labels that someone can place on it. I think he is only trying to sort of convey what it could be like. Cmon, the guy was a big tripper, he had to know, he was in the know, he was far in. Smart guy, I like him.

I also like Tim Leary. I hear so many people say how he was so crazy, and always just go,"oh you know he was crazy as hell when he was old, all that acid." I have many Leary books and I get all of them I can get my hands on and all his material is actually fairly scientific. Forgive the turn on, tune in, drop out, but hell that was in the 60s.
He also puts words around the psychedelic experience very well. He wrote some of my favorite trip reports ever in High Priest. He also came up with good material into the 80s and 90s. I don't think he was ever crazed by acid as soooo many claim. It almost seems a popular thing to bash Leary.

Another psychedelic hero I enjoy, that not many people know about, is John Lilly. In fact, his books are very, very hard to find. However, his work is excellent. People in power do not want most to get a hold of Programming and Metaprogramming the Human Biocomputer.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


Edited by mecreateme (08/20/05 12:13 AM)


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Offlinesox24
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4557006 - 08/20/05 12:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

McKenna liked The Rolling Stones and the Dead. He was cool, you just don't get it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4557328 - 08/20/05 01:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

question_for_joo said:
I'm not following you but all I can say is I am not limiting anything.  Terence McKenna is limiting things and it offends me because he passes himself off not just as an entertainer but as some sort of superior authority on the significance behind the psychedelic experience.




It offends you? If you are at a point where the attitudes and expessions of a person that you only indirectly know of actually causes yourself offense and a disruption of your state of mind, then perhaps you have a lot more to learn from your psychadelic experiences. :wink:

You are limiting the entire existance of a human being by deciding what image they passed themselves off as, when that notion is more based in how you personally interpret others and their expressions than any actual insight into the inner personality and the intents and motivations of that person.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 527
Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4557889 - 08/20/05 06:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

just stick to this rule of thumb:
NEVER TRUST PEOPLE WHO"VE DONE ACID!!!AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<runs around and bitch slaps a pink elephant with a smelly turtle tortilla>


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OfflineTubOlucinogens
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4557934 - 08/20/05 07:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Terence McKenna, to the public, was above all, a performance artist. If you don't feel as though you benefit from his prose, then change the fucking channel.

You sound bitter to me, for one reason or another... maybe of his iconic status, or something else, I don't know. It's really not all that becoming, though.

What Terence did was Terence's art, it was his niche, it was his prose. I don't see you here reprimanding John Lennon, saying "Wait, wait, John! Just one minute! Woman isn't THE Nigger of the World. That's just the way you see it! I demand you change it to "I think, in my subjective opinion, that Woman is A Nigger of the World!".. Awfully selective, you are.

To be displeased with the objectifying manner in which he spoke - It's IMPLIED in our faculty of speech that our descriptions are flimsy, subjective subsequents of our experience... Realize this as such, it will help you along to insurmountable distances.

Don't shoot the messenger.  :thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: mecreateme]
    #4557964 - 08/20/05 08:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)


Quote:

I also like Tim Leary. I hear so many people say how he was so crazy, and always just go,"oh you know he was crazy as hell when he was old, all that acid." I have many Leary books and I get all of them I can get my hands on and all his material is actually fairly scientific. Forgive the turn on, tune in, drop out, but hell that was in the 60s.
He also puts words around the psychedelic experience very well. He wrote some of my favorite trip reports ever in High Priest. He also came up with good material into the 80s and 90s. I don't think he was ever crazed by acid as soooo many claim. It almost seems a popular thing to bash Leary.






Great post! I am also a fan of Leary. The Politics of Ecstacy is one of my favorite books. He did his part to kick start a lot of change in this country. People blame them if they turned out to be human and not Gods. :tongue: It's really not his fault if most of the users coundn't handle the knowledge gained and had to go back into fear based living. Acid efected me forever. If it had been up to others it would have been only for the elite few in the spiritual in crowd.

It is popular to bash these pioneers after one has had the benefit of their work. How lame. These people tell us how stupid they were and offer up noting of their own. Pure envy and spite.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (08/20/05 08:26 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: TubOlucinogens]
    #4557967 - 08/20/05 08:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Don't shoot the messenger.


 




Right! :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: Icelander]
    #4558058 - 08/20/05 09:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I've always thought of Mckenna as a conspiracy theorist at best. I totally understand what Joo is saying about him thinking how his experiences are THE experiences as it is very obviously implied in his speech and writing. My Dmt and shroom experiences are like nothing he's described so when I hear of his descriptions I just think 'yeah whatever man.'

What annoys me is when people idolise him without question, and attack anyone who critises him. Seriously, don't take him so seriously.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: ninjapixie]
    #4558067 - 08/20/05 09:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What annoys me is when people idolise him without question, and attack anyone who critises him. Seriously, don't take him so seriously.
___________________________________________________________

Of course.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: Icelander]
    #4558104 - 08/20/05 10:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It is popular to bash these pioneers after one has had the benefit of their work. How lame. These people tell us how stupid they were and offer up noting of their own. Pure envy and spite.

I remember Alan Watts saying that when we try to describe reality, we can only talk in negatives. That is, we can only say what reality isn't as it is impossible to say what reality actually is. Therefore, saying someone's beliefs are wrong and offering no alternative isn't a bad thing to do at all.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: ninjapixie]
    #4558284 - 08/20/05 11:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Then have at it. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: ninjapixie]
    #4558910 - 08/20/05 02:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
I remember Alan Watts saying that when we try to describe reality, we can only talk in negatives. That is, we can only say what reality isn't as it is impossible to say what reality actually is. Therefore, saying someone's beliefs are wrong and offering no alternative isn't a bad thing to do at all.




All right, then, what isn't reality? :smirk:

I think the point is to directly experience what reality is, so that what reality is will be self-evident. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: mecreateme]
    #4559418 - 08/20/05 04:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Another psychedelic hero I enjoy, that not many people know about, is John Lilly.
A dozen books, many scientific papers written and two movies about him and his work and no one has heard of him? :rofl2:

People in power do not want most to get a hold of Programming and Metaprogramming the Human Biocomputer.
Yeah, the powers that be are afraid of ketamine delusions. :rofl:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Terence McKenna: another egomaniac [Re: Swami]
    #4559753 - 08/20/05 05:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Uhhmmm...Ever read Scientist: An Autobiography? Lilly was not into Ketamine until later in his life. Programming was written after a period of legal LSD use combined with isolation tanks. At least rip on something you know.

Wow, I can't believe you said I said no one has heard of him. Get your reading skills checked. I think you even quoted it... Wtf? Did you read the quote? "that not many people know about"(wow quote myself!) Is that no one? Man, Swami, take your pot shots more clearly.

And yes, not may people I know of have heard of John Lilly. I treasure the friends I can find that have ever heard of his work cause they can usually give some good conversation.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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