Home | Community | Message Board


Shroom Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Community >> The Pub

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge
    #4546426 - 08/17/05 01:12 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) were trying to infiltrate the Aryan Nations, a group of white supremacists based at nearby Hayden Lake. It remains hotly debated whether Randy Weaver, a local farmer, was a sympathizer, but he had visited the Aryan Nation church on more than one occasion. He seemed well placed to act as an infiltrator, but refused to when asked. Perhaps intending to elicit his cooperation, the BATF entrapped Weaver into selling them two shotguns. It is disputed between the BATF and Weaver as to who exactly shortened the barrels to below the minimum legal length of 18 inches. He failed to appear in court to answer the charges, citing an incorrect date on his summons.

Weaver's home was then subjected to surveillance. The family was unaware that they were being watched by federal agents. At one point, Randy Weaver, his (14-year-old) son Sam, and his friend (and house guest) Kevin Harris went hunting on the property, along with several of the family's dogs. The three split up in the hopes of flushing out a deer. Harris and Sam were together, while Weaver went in a different direction. Kevin and Sam unknowingly stumbled upon a group of federal Deputy U.S. Marshall (DUSM) when one of their dogs scented the agent. The canine approached the agent, who opened fire on the dog, killing it. Sam, upon seeing the camo-clad agent shoot the dog, returned fire. In the ensuing exchange of gunfire, Sam was shot and wounded. As Sam ran away, he was fatally shot in the back. At that point, Harris, who had seen the dog and child die, fired back, killing one of the agents.

The next day, a FBI sniper named Lon Horiuchi wounded Weaver while Weaver was outside. As Weaver ran back to the house, Horiuchi fired again, killing Weaver's wife Vicky, with a single shot to the head, and wounded another son. Vicky Weaver was holding a baby in her hands when shot dead. Much controversy was later generated by the fact that, after the first day's events, the FBI had changed the rules of engagement. Horiuchi and other agents understood the new rules of engagement as an order to fire at will. Had the rules of engagement not been changed, it is unlikely that Horiuchi would have fired on the Weavers at all.

A stand-off ensued for ten days as several hundred federal agents surrounded the house, in which Weaver and his three surviving children remained with Harris. The area was surrounded by protesters angered at the heavy-handed nature of the authorities' actions. James "Bo" Gritz, then a third-party presidential candidate who had formerly been Weaver's commanding officer during the Vietnam War, served as a mediator between Weaver and the government. Eventually, Weaver elected to abandon the stand-off and trust his case to the judicial system.

OUTCOME:

At his trial in 1993, Weaver faced an array of charges, including the original weapons violations as well as murder. He was represented by noted trial lawyer Gerry Spence. Spence pursued an affirmative defense of self-defense, and was successful. Weaver was acquitted of all charges except missing his original court date. He was credited with time served and spent less than three months in jail. Harris was acquitted of all charges. At one point in the trial, the judge admonished the FBI for withholding name-clearing evidence.

Later investigations criticized the federal agents. The United States Department of Justice's report recommended criminal prosecution of federal agents, though nothing has come of this. The surviving members of the Weaver family received a $3.1 million settlement.

The US Senate in September 1995 held hearings on the Ruby Ridge incident, and in December, released a report criticizing the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies.




For God's sake, they had tanks, helicopters, hundreds of federal agents, and polic from multiple states there.

Isn't that a bit unneccesary?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4546441 - 08/17/05 01:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Is part II going to be Waco? That's one of my favorite examples of government tyranny.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineJachMahoggoff
Sid ViciousWardrobeConsultant

Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Crap Coast
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4546442 - 08/17/05 01:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Rotten.com has excellent info about this


--------------------
This was written by someone else. When I find them an asskicking is in order.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedanlennon3
LivingIsEasyWithEyesClosed.....
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 19,224
Loc: usa Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4546449 - 08/17/05 01:18 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

this is the same government that has control over every single one of us


--------------------
"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblerod
Ψ
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4546452 - 08/17/05 01:19 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

But my god man, the feds knew, that Randys wife and kids, and that killer pet dog of Randy,s boy would be there, I would have to
have a few nukes if it was me. LOL


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineivi
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,083
Last seen: 3 days, 12 hours
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4546471 - 08/17/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

That American Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms seems like a government approved death squad to me :nonono:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4546505 - 08/17/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Another important note: Once the siege had started, the only shots fired were by the federal marshalls.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4546511 - 08/17/05 01:36 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

go rent Waco: Rules of Engagement

same story, different sucker.

the problem is that the victims are on the fringe
of what society sees as acceptable and the media
unwittingly perpetrates the government's smear
campaigns to further malign the victims.

James Bovard has written some very detailed
chapters regarding waco, ruby ridge, the first
WTC bombings and Oklahoma City.

The FBI gave the first WTC bombers the bombs
and drove them to the fucking building.

There was a second man in the van with Tim McVeigh
captured on multiple cameras...but was never
mentioned in open court...not to mention the undetonated
bombs still inside the building.

BATF called the media in and around waco the morning
before to draw media attention to their raid, they
just happened to be up for funding in the coming months.
They never mention the fact that Koresh invited agents
in to see his weapons and the living conditions of the
children and other tenants.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePrisoner#1M
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 191,650
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4547107 - 08/17/05 04:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Another important note: Once the siege had started, the only shots fired were by the federal marshalls.




Lon Horiutchi the sniper that did the shooting of weaver and harris was excuse
from a senate subcomitie hearing on the even, for some reason he was also one of
the snipers at Waco

do a google search for Linda Thompson and Waco if you want to learn more, I used
to talk with her on FIDOnet about it back in the day


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #4547448 - 08/17/05 06:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I never realized that Horiuchi was in both places.

How any american could live with themselves after
doing what he did is beyond me.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: afoaf]
    #4547478 - 08/17/05 06:40 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Many of the federal agents were at both places. By many, I means almost all.

Pris: Harris wasn't shot, was he? I though he was injured by the fragmentation of Vicky's skull while he was standing next to her?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemantis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 5,235
Loc: Bunker Alpha, GMC Flag
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4547514 - 08/17/05 06:48 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

If that guy wasn't planning something before, I wouldn't be surprised if he is now. If somebody killed my wife and did that shit to me I wouldn't be at rest until I was dead myself.

He probably just wants to live his life though.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: mantis]
    #4547547 - 08/17/05 06:54 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

In the book I'm reading now, he's portrayed as a regular guy, just wanting to get on with his life.

That's all he wanted to begin with, though. He was a Green Beret, and when he retired, he wanted to get away from civilization, so he built a shoddy home far away from urban life. One thing that bothers me is his belief in the "New World Order" and the Bilderberg Group.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4547638 - 08/17/05 07:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

PBS Frontline did an excellent show on Waco back in 1995, which you can view for free on their web site here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/view/

From this program and others that I have seen, plus the things I have read, I am sickened by the way the US Govt acted in the Waco standoff. They went after Koresh because they needed more funding, and wanted a high-profile case to get that funding (which, unfortunately, I'm sure they DID get). Koresh may (or may not) have been a total wacko...but I certainly don't think he deserved to have the BATF and then FBI come down on him and his people as they did.

If you watch the video, you might note that Koresh and the others held-up inside the church (termed a "compound" by the feds) actually tried to take the situation lightly even after it had started and Koresh had already been wounded by gunfire.

At one point, the FBI started blasting white-noise and other loud sounds into the building late at night, as a form of psychological warfare (warfare? against your own citizens?). The Davidians had a lot of band equipment on site...so what did they do? Put their speakers to the window and blasted their own music right back at the agents! :lol:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 64,437
Loc: 9th Dimension
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4547663 - 08/17/05 07:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
That's all he wanted to begin with, though. He was a Green Beret, and when he retired, he wanted to get away from civilization, so he built a shoddy home far away from urban life. One thing that bothers me is his belief in the "New World Order" and the Bilderberg Group.




Why does that bother you? The Bilderberg Group does exist you know.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Shroomism]
    #4548012 - 08/17/05 08:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I know the Bilderberg group exists. There is just no proof is exists for any reason other than good intentions, which there is plenty of evidence for.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: Redstorm]
    #4548021 - 08/17/05 08:31 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

If it exists only for "good purposes"....why all the secrecy? Why the media blackouts?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 64,437
Loc: 9th Dimension
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: trendal]
    #4548025 - 08/17/05 08:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Same with the Trilateral Commission.. and The Council on Foreign Relations.. The Skull and Bones
Groups hardly anyone knows about (well the skull and bones is more well known now after that movie.. )


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: trendal]
    #4548029 - 08/17/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't say it doesn't exist for other purposes. Just, from what I've read (even far-left articles and books) there is very little to gather about what they do, other than trivial things like environment advocacy and the like. I won't accept something without at least some proof. And by "proof", I mean anything outside of David Icke. :wink:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Obscure US History (Part I): Ruby Ridge [Re: trendal]
    #4548030 - 08/17/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

For instance, whenever the G8 meet, or really any annual meeting of high-profile leaders and movers, the media is all over it.

Yet when the Bilderbergers meet...nothing. Not even a mumble from the mainstream media.

Now I'm not saying they are meeting to plan some "New World Order" or anything like that...but I do think that if they were meeting primarily for the good of us common people they wouldn't be so paranoid about media attention.

In fact, if there was any way they could spin it to seem like their meeting was for the good of the commons...they would do so. Politicians love good publicity, even if it has to be twisted to sound good in the first place.

For such a high-profile group to be meeting more or less "in secret" indicates, to me, that they don't want the average man on the street to know about their meeting at all.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Edited by trendal (08/17/05 08:36 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

Community >> The Pub

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Eye opening Ruby Ridge documentary
punkhardcore92
534 10 11/28/08 05:34 PM
by Prisoner#1
* Super Mario Kart: Most influential video game in history
( 1 2 all )
LobsterSauce 2,706 35 06/27/10 03:49 PM
by twighead
* Who is the most Under rated band in history?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
just me 5,108 111 08/13/09 05:53 PM
by psilocybin_qualm
* LYRICS TO OBSCURE SONGS
( 1 2 all )
tyrannicalrex
3,456 28 06/21/08 03:48 AM
by TM
* Obscure Electronic Music Appreciation thread
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Cepheus 13,585 130 08/19/14 12:15 AM
by meltymushroom
* saturday ruby tuesday's columbus ohio durban_poison 404 1 04/22/05 10:05 AM
by WoodsCall
* What's your Screenname's History!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Apollyphelion
5,911 109 08/07/12 10:59 PM
by jffdjt23231256
* Recommend me some movies or obscure tv series krypto2000 480 6 04/27/09 05:18 PM
by Ubi

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
2,767 topic views. 9 members, 44 guests and 44 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Azarius
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.074 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.