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OfflineRoseM
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Why does The Shroomery need this forum?
    #4545108 - 08/17/05 01:01 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What do S&P and mushrooms have to do with each other?

Why can't we just drop this forum from the list?

Is it really worth the drama?


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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545153 - 08/17/05 01:11 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe just split it up into 2 forums:

Willing to learn [open and beyond] (S&P)
and
Nailed it supremecy [dry and closed] (S&P)

Although everybody loves a drama and the seemingly opposing forces are healing as we continually realise that we are infact very similar and desire the same thing. Eventually our forces will merge as we realise the shields no longer serving any of us and we unite in a higher cause.


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need to Exist? [Re: Rose]
    #4545161 - 08/17/05 01:13 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

If you used that logic, then you really don't need half of the forums. OTD, the Pub, PAL, Culinary, Science&Technology, look down the list and you'll see the Shroomery has expanded to much more than a cultivation website.

The Shroomery doesn't need this forum, or in fact any other forums besides the Mush Cultivation ones to serve its stated purpose. However, if you want the Shroomery to expand into a thriving community, then you need forums for people to simply talk and put their thoughts in, which is what the entire community section is about. S&P is simply the thoughts too philosophical for a light-hearted place like the Pub, or too serious to throw to the hello.jpgs in OTD.

I don't think many of the Shroomery members even grow mushrooms, and many people don't stay here for mushroom cultivation information. People might come here to get the information, but they often stay because of the community, and this community has grown enough to sponsor gatherings, friendships, even marriage among its members.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545164 - 08/17/05 01:14 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

mushroom are known to sometimes produce the tendancy toward philosophical and spiritual discussions in their users. it's one of the side affects. hopefully having this forum helps to keep the other forums more organized.

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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Deviate]
    #4545193 - 08/17/05 01:22 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

p.s I would post in both :wink:

Well, technically we don't even need the cultivation forum or this website altogether. Mushrooms grow naturally.

I say keep it all and continue expanding. This place is awesome. Its like a religion without walls. The one thing that should unite all people in this forum is the willingness to grow. The knowledge base here is huge.

Infinity in all directions.  :dj:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4545205 - 08/17/05 01:26 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The one thing that should unite all people in this forum is the willingness to grow.




Seeing as its a mushroom cultivation forum, growing comes naturally to many people here.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545260 - 08/17/05 01:37 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Funny, you all have focused on my second and least serious and/or interesting question.

How 'bout my first and third?

What do S&P and mushrooms have to do with each other?

and

Is it really worth the drama?

:wink:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545288 - 08/17/05 01:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What do S&P and mushrooms have to do with each other?




Not much. Philosophy is in the human mind, not in the mushrooms.

Quote:

Is it really worth the drama?




Probably not, but neither are most of the other drama-producing forums.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Deviate]
    #4545291 - 08/17/05 01:44 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
mushroom are known to sometimes produce the tendancy toward philosophical and spiritual discussions in their users. it's one of the side affects.



Well said.

Quote:

hopefully having this forum helps to keep the other forums more organized.




You lost me.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545300 - 08/17/05 01:46 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Not much. Philosophy is in the human mind, not in the mushrooms.




And Spirituality?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545313 - 08/17/05 01:49 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Delusions easily taken care of by any good psychologist.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545321 - 08/17/05 01:51 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

And the spirit?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545332 - 08/17/05 01:54 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Not that you're even the mod of this forum anyway. :wink:

The spirit falls under the category of spiritual delusions, perhaps the spiritual delusion of all time. There is no spirit or soul, simply the human brain.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545337 - 08/17/05 01:56 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

And human awareness, and human creativity...

Congrats, you get a cookie for being the first to realize I am not attempting to threaten the existence of this forum. :wink:


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545339 - 08/17/05 01:56 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

...that's highly debateable :wink:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545346 - 08/17/05 01:58 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
And human awareness, and human creativity...

Congrats, you get a cookie for being the first to realize I am not attempting to threaten the existence of this forum. :wink:




Damn, I was waiting for the bulldozers to come in. :frown:


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545355 - 08/17/05 01:59 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Talk to Shroomism. :wink:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545368 - 08/17/05 02:02 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

It's too late at night... and I'm in no mood for fancy philosophical discussions

There is a spirit, and soul.

There... that ought to be the end of that :grin:

/me washes hands of the whole thing


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4545373 - 08/17/05 02:03 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

And faith.

Sleep tight hippie!

Brush your teath!

/me thought fancy philosophy only came at this hour.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4545380 - 08/17/05 02:04 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I disagree. I reached in for my soul, and only came out with some sticky brain tissue.

Seeing as we evolved from primitive bacteria, did the soul evolve with us? Do bacteria have souls? Or did they just magically possess us, like Scientology states?


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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545383 - 08/17/05 02:05 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Mushrooms can access any part of the human experience. Its all part of it. Talking about Spirituality and Philosophy is no more connected to the human/mushroom experience then talking about Ants and Grass. Its all related and its all essential.

The reason why S&P popped up instead of A&G is possibly because our primitive ancestors who ingested shrooms had not yet fully explored the realms of spirituality, gods and ways of interacting with each other and the world. Ants and Grass was known to them and there was not the desire to put so much emphasis on it. It seems that shrooms cropped up at about the same time that man began to question his existance and search for a greater meaning. It is therefor strongly embedded within our cellular and akashic memory a connection between philosophical thought and mushroom ingestion.

I thought I would only be able to be philosophical on mushrooms until I asked myself if to explore new frontiers. I realised I could easily switch between deep meditation and sexual drive. Quite different ends of the common 7 chakras and yet equally supported in both.

I feel there is a strong emphasis on S&P in this time it could be because the majority of man fears for his survival. He desperately seeks the truth. He feels uncertain and he is willing to put his heart on the line and express his opinions in order to reach out and connect with likeminded folk in order to hopefully make the world a better place.

Maybe as more and more people begin to tap into the 'its cool' frequency where I reside most of the time, threads like Ants and Grass will pop up and the meaning and value we derive from exploring these seemingly meaningless worlds will grow exponentially into infinity.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545386 - 08/17/05 02:05 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

only ifn I kin find me fluoride free toofpaste


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545395 - 08/17/05 02:07 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Are evolution and Scientology his ONLY options?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4545399 - 08/17/05 02:09 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
only ifn I kin find me fluoride free toofpaste


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545403 - 08/17/05 02:11 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Are evolution and Scientology his ONLY options?




I never stated that, I simply asked questions. Scientology is a good example of what I'm talking about, since they tell their brainwashed sheep that people we nuked billions of years ago turned to ghosts and are now trying to possess us, and in fact are possessing those who do not cleanse themselves through Scientology.

Reminded me a bit of the soul. :smirk:


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545431 - 08/17/05 02:16 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

No question in your last post. :smirk:

Would you say Spirituality is man's creation of god?

Oh, and BTW... you don't reach into your HEAD to reach your soul. :wink:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545461 - 08/17/05 02:25 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

heh who said you'd find the soul in your head?
And who said it's even physical?

Isn't the whole evolution theory..... still a theory?

I believe in evolution. But I don't believe that we evolved from single-celled organisms, or whatever. I believe that things evolve to adapt to their environment over time. Like humans losing a pinky toe in the next 100 million years, or whatever. But going from a paramecium to human? Sorry don't buy it. Even over the course of 900 trillion years.. I don't see that happening.

Show me where a seahorse evolved into a seagull.. or a coconut tree evolved into an oak. I don't think things work like that. Reptiles don't just evolve into humans. Monkeys are closely related yes, but there is some very big differences. And if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? These questions and much more.

I also believe in Creation. That does not make me a Creationist. I don't believe that God came out of the sky and made the universe in 7 days or whatever. Just like I don't believe that humans evolved from monkeys.

My beliefs fall somewhere in the middle. I believe in a creation, that evolves. We, as human, are creations of that creation. We have the same potential for creation. We can create, and we evolve. Creation and evolution are two parts of the same whole if you ask me.. call it Shroomism if you will. I don't know.

Does bacteria have souls? That's a good question. Probably, if we do. I think that everything has a soul... simply different levels of consciousness. For example, a rock. Not very perceptive of its surroundings. Probably not even aware of it's own existence.. just sits there, being a rock. Denies god and everything else, including itself. And that's just fine. But does the rock exist.. even though it doesn't think that it does? You're damn straight it does!

But just because you believe something doesn't mean that it does or does not exist. In all likelihood... everything exists... and nothing.. as vast and infinite as the universe is...

Damnit you made me make a philosophical post.. I'll get you for this!


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4545473 - 08/17/05 02:28 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks fur fixin' yur teef!

Well spake!

Entertaining read.

Opinions on the connecton between mushrooms and S&P?


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (08/17/05 02:29 AM)

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545501 - 08/17/05 02:36 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Well if I was asking that question... it would be..

Is there anything about mushrooms that AREN'T spiritual?

For you see.. to me.. mushrooms *are* a spiritual tool. Whether deeply meditating on them or laughing my ass off at the profoundness of nothing.. they enable me to see 'deeper' parts of myself that I am usually not consciously aware of. I think that everytime I take mushrooms with an open mind, I learn something new.. about myself. Come to some kind of profound revelation, make new connections.. yes it was all there before I just wasn't looking at it in the right light. Mushrooms help me make those connections. So for me, mushrooms are a tool for the spirit.. and an enjoyment for the body and mind. Food of the Gods.

The connection? In the DNA.. I think.
I don't know. If I was on shrooms right now I could probably come up with something more profound :smirk:

Wow I said profound three times in this post... totally profound


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4545515 - 08/17/05 02:40 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, a lot of shroomers feel that way... or variations on the theme.

I do shrooms for Spiritual reasons. A connection to the surroundings... and the immagination.

Did man create God or did God create man?


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545527 - 08/17/05 02:44 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

god created man and then we created god? or vica versa
either way it's a give and take


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4545537 - 08/17/05 02:46 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Yup a mind fuck indeed.

Man creates God every day. Either by creating bullshit... or just by simply attempting to express anything. If God is the creator, which God believing men would say, then creativity itself is God's image, no?

There is no doubt man creates god.

But did God create man?


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (08/17/05 02:49 AM)

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545569 - 08/17/05 03:02 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

You'd have to ask God that one :grin:

I will risk taking a stance here and lets say that God did create man 'in his image'.. like the Bible says. This means that we are God.

No, we're not some omnipotent dude in the sky moving universes by sheer willpower..
But do we not move the microcosms of our own universes?
Are not our bodies.. a universe unto itself??

I would agree that creativity itself is God's image.
Every time we use creativity we are using our God powers.

Maybe God created man and implanted him with a memory virus.. so as to have no awareness of there being a god.. so that we may fully come to terms with our Earthly "godliness".. the completeness and perfection that is the potential of every human being. 

Maybe we are all God.. just each a little fragment of God. Like cells. Complete cells, but the sum of the parts equals the whole. Maybe God is everyone combined.. but yet, we are all God at the same time.

Or another analogy: God is the Oak Tree - we are the acorns.
The acorns are a part of the Oak Tree.. they are not the tree itself - but they have the potential to be.
Within that little seed contains all the DNA information necessary to make an infinite number of oak trees. All it has to do is drop from the tree, become one with the earth.. and grow towards the stars. So in this analogy.. there are an infinite potential for oak trees, within one tree. Who's to say that the "God" that created us (assuming God did create us..)... wasn't just another acorn from another Oak Tree at one time? Who's to say that you or I, wont become a God to another universe at some time?

So in this sense I think that God = everything. The oak tree, the seed, the ground it falls on.. all just different manifestations.. different ways to experience.

I think if God did exist.. his name would be Creation. And his perpetual goal would be Evolution. Evolution from wisdom through experience. What better way to get experience than experiencing 6 billion+ different, yet interconnected realities at once? You create something.. and let it evolve from there.

just some thoughts.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4545583 - 08/17/05 03:09 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Great post man.

Good night.

:smile:


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545591 - 08/17/05 03:11 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Gooooooood night! (morning) :laugh:

:mushroom2:


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545663 - 08/17/05 03:54 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

soft results and soft guidance can get tangled up with entheogen culture(s).

this arena lets those tangles come together without cluttering the details of cultivation, trip reports, FAQs, dosage, and other kinds of support.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4545812 - 08/17/05 06:59 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Not that you're even the mod of this forum anyway. :wink:

The spirit falls under the category of spiritual delusions, perhaps the spiritual delusion of all time. There is no spirit or soul, simply the human brain.




Ravus I'm surprised. :shocked: Any good scientist could tell you there are no definitive answers to this question. You have made statement that ends all further exploration. Your subjective statement assumes your knowledge to be the final word on this and that others who claim to have experience contrary to yours are positively wrong. Tisk tisk.  Let me ask you Ravus, if you know this for certain then you must be able to also answer the question were did existence come from? IMO to know anything without doubt you would need to have the answer to this question and every other.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4545904 - 08/17/05 08:10 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Is it really worth the drama?




Yes, once every couple of months a heated debate occurs that causes someone to sucuumb to overbearing emotionalism, a flood of moderators from other forums enter, two days later, everyone has forgotten (that is, as long as there still aren't people around that constantly antagonize it) and suddenly there is "all this drama". :lol:

I would think that the amount of bans and locked threads would be somewhat representable of "how much drama" occurs in any given forum.... hhhm... when was the last time someone got banned around here? :smirk: Yeah, we should form a soap opera based on all this emotional shit that goes on in here. All those other forums, complete with beastiality posting, cat fights, threatening to notify policemen, rigging of polls, whoring oneself out at Gatherings, etc. etc. ad infinitum simply can't compare. :grin:

I mean, what do The Pub and mushrooms have to do with each other? My post is clearly sarcastic and I obviously don't think that you are implying that this forum doesn't have a right to be here and that we must prove ourselves, simply that you are attempting to spark introspective replies as to the relationship between mushrooms and philosophy and spirituality, but ja. :grin: This forum will remain, by all rights, long after The Pub or OTD is removed. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4545926 - 08/17/05 08:20 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I need this forum for the free daily psychoanalysis as I can no longer afford my therapist @ $250 per hour twice a week.

Keep the forum - save a Swami.  :heart:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4545981 - 08/17/05 08:46 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What do mushrooms have to do with S&P?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4546010 - 08/17/05 08:52 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What do mushrooms have to do with Culinary Arts? What do mushrooms have to do with Physical and Mental Well-Being? What do mushrooms have to do with Off Topic Discussion? What do mushrooms have to do with Politics, Activism, and Law? What do mushrooms have to do with The Ethnobotanical Garden? What do mushrooms have to do with Other Drugs Discussion? What do mushrooms have to do with The Pub? What do mushrooms have to do with Gathering And Travel? What do mushrooms have to do with Music, Art, and Literature? What do mushrooms have to do with Marketplace?

I'm too lazy to check and see if you have made a similarily themed thread in each individual forum that I just listed.... :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Swami]
    #4546015 - 08/17/05 08:54 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Keep the forum - save a Swami.  :heart:



great bumper sticker!


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4546018 - 08/17/05 08:54 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

It was only on topic in this forum. :smirk:

Don't answer a question with a question.

You focused on the second-least interesting question I asked.

Now, try this one.

What do mushrooms have to do with S&P?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4546135 - 08/17/05 09:34 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
It was only on topic in this forum. :smirk:




I know; I'm just being exceedingly difficult. :evil: If I had read all of the replies before I initially replied, I would have seen that all of that ground had already been covered - I think you've been hazed enough.  :grin:

Quote:


Don't answer a question with a question.




Can I question a statement with a statement?  :syringe:

Quote:


You focused on the second-least interesting question I asked.




My reply might have focused upon that particular question, but it isn't evident of where I myself placed my "focus". :grin:

Quote:


What do mushrooms have to do with S&P?




Well, since you seem to be adamant enough about it.... :wink:

Any relation between mushrooms and the concepts of spirituality and philosophy are a human construct. The concepts of spirituality and philosophy are abstractions. Ingesting mushrooms is not going to equate into an experience of spirituality or an enhancement of philosophical perception as a direct consequence.

I personally see philosophy as a method or a manner in which the mind forms thought and represents reality. Any experience is going to relate to philosophy simply as a result of the definition of philosophy. Regardless of how aware or developed one's philosophy is, it still exists as the sum of their experiences and the manner in which they perceive and interpret reality as a result of those experiences.

Mushrooms might be identified as being a more profound experience that relates to philosophy through the mechanism I just outlined simply because the mushroom experience is quite distinctive when compared to one's experiences that aren't under the influence of mushrooms. When one is on mushrooms, our awareness and experience of reality has deviated from our normal experiences to such a degree that it is quite likely that it will influence our philosophy just a bit. :grin:

Considering that the mushroom experience involves temporary dissolution of specific barriers within the mind that decide what limited amount of the aspects of our direct perceptions we will consciously experience, so that we become more aware of our surroundings and are more focused within our state of being - ja, there you go, mushrooms rule. :smirk:

The mind certainly defines "what mushrooms have to do with spirituality and philosophy", as it is the source of the conceptions of both and also the experience that one will... experience (:lol:) on mushrooms, just as it will decide the role that the experience that it interpreted and defined for itself will play in one's philosophy. A basic thought line like "If you take mushrooms, you become spiritual and, like, know stuff about stuff" is in error. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4546188 - 08/17/05 09:47 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Firey Workings of God, :thumbup: I have been really enjoying your posts lately and this is no exception. Thou Rockith. :hairmetal: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4546261 - 08/17/05 10:11 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Firey Workings of God, :thumbup: I have been really enjoying your posts lately and this is no exception. Thou Rockith. :hairmetal: :heart:




And I have really enjoyed your intriguing interpretation of my screen name (alters MSN screen name as such). :thumbup: :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMJF
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4546321 - 08/17/05 10:30 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
What do S&P and mushrooms have to do with each other?

Why can't we just drop this forum from the list?

Is it really worth the drama?




Are you being serious? If you are then I feel sorry for you. Spiritual/Philisophical trips are the best.

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InvisibleELECTRIC
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4546544 - 08/17/05 11:55 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"What do S&P and mushrooms have to do with each other?"

Not entirely sure..


Didn't some philosophers, for example, come from Greece? 

Wasn't Greece known for useage of substances?


What about Egypt?


You think that the natives in the Amazon might know something about Spirituality?





"Is it really worth the drama?"

You bet it is !!!!


The drama shows how developed one is!  If you can talk the talk, and then walk in a straight line...  The cops'll let you go.

:lol:

Oh, wait a second... 









But seriously now...



The drama is S&P in ACTION !!!


Where it is more than just talk... 



It's your talk....  APPLIED.





I love it when drama unfolds!




:thumbup:


--------------------
Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.

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InvisibleELECTRIC
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4546563 - 08/17/05 12:04 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

" disagree. I reached in for my soul, and only came out with some sticky brain tissue."


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:



Shit !!!!  :eek:


Have you been searching from behind again?




:lol:











pssst.....  ..it's slightly in front...


--------------------
Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.

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OfflineSerioOria
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4546604 - 08/17/05 12:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

because this is the only forum that has smart people that will actually talk about these sort of things because they tend to be the ones that use substances that lead to chaos that makes them question things such as existence and reality and conventional thoughts


why dont more forums have this section, shutup man


--------------------
Live every day like it is your first
or
Live every day like it is your last
My ArT!!

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4546817 - 08/17/05 01:29 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Ravus said:
Not that you're even the mod of this forum anyway. :wink:

The spirit falls under the category of spiritual delusions, perhaps the spiritual delusion of all time. There is no spirit or soul, simply the human brain.




Ravus I'm surprised. :shocked: Any good scientist could tell you there are no definitive answers to this question. You have made statement that ends all further exploration. Your subjective statement assumes your knowledge to be the final word on this and that others who claim to have experience contrary to yours are positively wrong. Tisk tisk.  Let me ask you Ravus, if you know this for certain then you must be able to also answer the question were did existence come from? IMO to know anything without doubt you would need to have the answer to this question and every other.




That's my philosophical viewpoint, not my scientific one.

I'm not actually rigid in my viewpoints; I would be willing to change my view of the soul if there was sufficient evidence. However, until there is, then I will go with the simplest theory. Because every statement we make is an uncertainty, does that mean we have to constantly sound uncertain?

Existence is a many-headed beast. Which existence? The existence of you? The existence of life? The existence of the universe? The existence of you came about by natural selection; the existence of life is a tougher question, and did come about by natural selection, but that doesn't fully explain it. There are quite a few scientific theories on this, some too complex for me to really comprehend, but an understandable theory, or at least an interesting thought experiment for how life could come about, is the RNA world hypothesis. In this, the early world had a primordial soup of free-floating nucleotides which would regularly form bonds with each other. The vast majority would break apart quickly without doing anything, but a few of them joined in such a way that they had a stable bonding, and as they grew longer they attracted more nucleotides, in such a way that it grew faster than it broke apart.

Over hundreds of millions of years of this the longest RNA sequences started to randomly generate the ability to reproduce, and when this happens extremely strong natural selection kicked in. The longest, most stable RNA sequences would reproduce the most, and this would continue on into the next generation until these primitive RNA strains began to join together because it helped their survival so much to be that much more stable. They then developed properties that allowed the RNA to manipulate amino acids, continued evolving, and billions of years later here we are.

As for the existence of the universe, I've no clue, but I don't think that's relevant to our soul in the modern day.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4546826 - 08/17/05 01:31 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
What do mushrooms have to do with S&P?




Without the S&P, you wouldn't have SPores....

Without spores, you have no mushrooms....    :tongue:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

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>^;;^<

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4546949 - 08/17/05 02:10 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

As for the existence of the universe, I've no clue, but I don't think that's relevant to our soul in the modern day.




It's of major relevance to the concept of soul and spirit IMO. For the unknown or unknowable source of existence may be the very source of soul/spirit. We would be a part of that. The Ultimate Tao if you will. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4546984 - 08/17/05 02:17 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

lol


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Disclaimer!?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Gomp]
    #4547027 - 08/17/05 02:27 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

:zoom: :thirdeyeani: :sun: :crazyeyes:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4547508 - 08/17/05 04:46 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Yup a mind fuck indeed.

Man creates God every day. Either by creating bullshit... or just by simply attempting to express anything. If God is the creator, which God believing men would say, then creativity itself is God's image, no?

There is no doubt man creates god.

But did God create man?




Who can define what God is? Even worst, create him...
You may create ideas, harbor beliefs, but how close is
this to the truth?

As close as eating imaginary food will get you to a
full stomach.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4547604 - 08/17/05 05:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

As for the existence of the universe, I've no clue, but I don't think that's relevant to our soul in the modern day.




It's of major relevance to the concept of soul and spirit IMO. For the unknown or unknowable source of existence may be the very source of soul/spirit. We would be a part of that. The Ultimate Tao if you will. :wink:




:sun:

It's possible, but seeing as the rest of science isn't like that, why would the creation of the universe be? It seems like it'd have to switch directions.

Not to mention, that wouldn't be conducive for Nihilism in any way.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4547790 - 08/17/05 05:48 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It's possible, but seeing as the rest of science isn't like that, why would the creation of the universe be? It seems like it'd have to switch directions.




I'm not following you. Can you explain further?

Quote:

Not to mention, that wouldn't be conducive for Nihilism in any way.




Then become a Taoist. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4547842 - 08/17/05 05:57 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

You say, "For the unknown or unknowable source of existence may be the very source of soul/spirit. We would be a part of that. The Ultimate Tao if you will."

Yet in my experience science has not seen the Ultimate Tao so far in any thing really. It's explained us simply through molecules and cells; it has discovered stars and planets and galaxies which, while beautiful, show no sign of the Tao.

The Tao is a concept created by the human mind, and because of this and the fact that it has not yet been proven scientifically it doesn't make sense that the creation of the universe would suddenly unveil it.

I could be wrong though; we'll see where M-Theory and the new theories of the 21st century lead us. Perhaps the universe was simply created through the collision of massive 11-dimensional membranes.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4547910 - 08/17/05 06:09 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

You can't  define Ultimate Tao. You can only witness its manifestation.

So far Science has yet to disprove this, by answering the question where and why and how do molecules, cell, atom, protons, 11 dimensional membranes come into existence.

So I would say the Tao has the upper hand on science right now. :grin:

Everything we speak of Ravus is a construct of the human mind. That has little to do with it. Right? :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4547931 - 08/17/05 06:11 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

So the Tao explains how everything comes into existence?

The Tao doesn't explain anything in my opinion, but if you disagree please do tell how the creation of the universe and everything is revealed by the Tao.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4547971 - 08/17/05 06:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
So the Tao explains how everything comes into existence?

The Tao doesn't explain anything in my opinion, but if you disagree please do tell how the creation of the universe and everything is revealed by the Tao.




The Tao does not explain how everything comes into existance. It says it is impossible to explain it. The Tao Te Ching explains how the Tao manifests in our experience, while saying it cannot be known. It gives advice for living in accord with its manifestations, so as to have a good experience here in the material life.

It is revealed to us by our obsevations of its effect. Everything, including Science is Tao. Tao predicts that Science will not EVER find any ultimate answers but will continue on as it always has. This is at least how I understand it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4548040 - 08/17/05 06:35 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

So in other words, the Tao is used to criticize the scientific search for the beginning but doesn't actually explain anything of its own? :smirk: I've read the Tao Te Ching and the Chuang Tzu multiple times, and while they were interesting and poetic, they do not answer any questions. Perhaps they're not intended to, but if that's the case then the Tao can't be used to criticize questions either.

There are no logical answers, even in the realm of spirituality. All of them have the same problem of causality, or simply end by saying the creator is "infinite", as if that solves all problems.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4548062 - 08/17/05 06:39 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I have never noticed that the Tao critizes the scientific search for knowledge. If it did I would abandon it. It predicts that, the search for knowledge will go on forever without exausting the Tao.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4548099 - 08/17/05 06:46 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

The Tao obviously doesn't criticize, or the Tao Te Ching, but people have often criticized in the Tao's name.

And I don't use "criticize" in the negative sense; I mean they question the answers of science and try to replace it with the Tao. They say the universe can't be explained as it's part of the "Ultimate Tao" but what exactly does that mean? It does nothing for humanity, it simply adds meaningless words to an already difficult problem, in my opinion the most difficult problem science and human thinking as a whole has faced.

The Tao doesn't solve the problem of existence, so in my opinion it's unrelated to the problem. The Tao is only useful as a human conceptual web for everything when it's already here, but should be left out of the problem of the beginning of causality as it can't carry its own weight.

And I call it a concept because the Tao requires faith that this unifying force exists, which I have yet to see.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4548149 - 08/17/05 06:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT? This is the thinking forum! Yeah there's a science forum, and if we were collectively more prepared for lots of science chatting, we'd probably have more enriched conversation that way. But we're not all prepared to talk about science. People here come from all different backgrounds, and have all different interests. We only have two things in common for sure: interest in a website about psilocybes, and the fact that we're people. People think, and wonder, and desire to know the truth. With the influence of drugs occasionally, people have all sorts of different ideas and things, and we chat about them. And that's the nature of philosophy. I for one do not see this place as abusive. I think that most people are too sensitive on the internet. If Swami and I got into a debate, for instance, we might say things like "that argument is ignorant" or "you're reasoning is nonsense" or whatever, but that wouldn't phase either one of us. Criticism is a great thing. We can steer other peoples' ideas around.


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Namaste

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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4548196 - 08/17/05 07:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

right on nuke. i am continually amused by people in this forum. it's a wonderful window onto the human experience. I love that i get to meet people with completely different worldviews to my own. it expands my understanding. I would think that many here share that sentiment. the shroomery doesn't need S&P, S&P needs the shroomery. it's the common ground that we all share. I love you guys! virtual hug! :heart:

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: psychomime]
    #4548211 - 08/17/05 07:10 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

er.. ah... got a bit carried away there. rock on S&P. :rockon:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4548218 - 08/17/05 07:12 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

First off, I don't care what these people do. They're ignorant IMO.

The Tao says existence isn't a "problem" to be fixed. It just is. There is nothing to fix IMO. There is something to experience though. Humanity needs nothing. It already has everything for this amazing journey called life. If we want to use Science to explore life then great. That's life. If some don't great. That's life. Every possibility is contained in Tao.

For me it is self evident that this unifying force exists. We live and die and fertilize the continuation of life in a continuous cycle.  :yinyang: Now this force moves me over to Veritas's house for dinner. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4548779 - 08/17/05 08:44 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

The Tao does not explain how everything comes into existance. It says it is impossible to explain it.

Sounds reminiscent of M-Theory, which cannot be tested and so isn't really a theory... it's more like a philosophy... like a Tao? Hmm... :mushroom2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Diploid]
    #4548892 - 08/17/05 09:04 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Tao Te Ching does not try to explain where it all comes from...just how it works. I have found it to be a reliable guide.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Diploid]
    #4548903 - 08/17/05 09:05 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'd say it's more like speculation of where physics is headed.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/0101/0101126.pdf is an awesome article on this new "Matrix Theory".


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4549127 - 08/17/05 09:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Yep, I'm familiar with most of Taylor's published work through his collaboration with Witten on SuSy. SuSy will be tested before the end of the decade at CERN, but M is another matter.

My point about the parallel of Tao to M is that neither can ever be tested (so far as we can tell) and so both are philosophies.

The cutting edge in science, not science, but philosophy? I find that interesting.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Diploid]
    #4549152 - 08/17/05 09:55 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Just because a field of physics can't be directly tested yet it doesn't mean it's philosophy.

M-Theory is more than philosophy because it has actual science behind it. It has complex mathematics to explain the concepts within it, and it is strictly bound by the puzzle which is around the blank piece it's trying to fit in. The Tao has none of these aspects.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4549177 - 08/17/05 10:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'd say there's as strong a correlation between mushrooms and spirituality as there is between, say, cannabis and Doritos.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4549359 - 08/17/05 10:30 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Just because a field of physics can't be directly tested yet

From all appearances, it can never be tested because testing it would require peering into structures of the fundamental space-time geometry that are smaller than the Planck Length.

Such small object do not make sense because the equations used in M-Theory yield results like imaginary time intervals or imaginary lengths - the square root of negative one meter, for example.

This isn't a technological limitation; it is a fundamental limitation of the universe that all indications are can never be exceeded.

In other words, the M-Theory itself precludes itself being tested for (sounds like Tao, eh?) and that makes it philosophy.

This may change with future revelations, but the limitation is intrinsic to M-Theory and so any future discovery that such small structures can be tested for after all, will essentially invalidate M-Theory.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4549763 - 08/18/05 12:12 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
What do S&P and mushrooms have to do with each other?

Why can't we just drop this forum from the list?

Is it really worth the drama?




1) psychedelics allow a person to view reality in a different way which is really the essence of speaking about philosophy and spirituality. to take a trip and to say to yourself "what is all of this?" "why is it here?" This forum is like a trip all on its own because it allows all types of subjective views to be shared, or broken down, or to be expanded upon, just like the psychedelic journey can do.

2) we can drop S&P from the list, but then you'd get these types of conversations anyway in another forum, or even on another website. this aspect of the shroomery is just one part of the entire mold of psychedelics, by stopping it you'd be ignoring one of the many aspects of mushrooms and psychedelics.

3) drama is contained within the human mind. S&P the forum isn't responsible for the drama, the people who post here are the ones responsible. And if you want to ask about worth, one's opinion of worth is definately different then the next.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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OfflineBobo
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4549878 - 08/18/05 12:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

iambobby said:
Mushrooms can access any part of the human experience. Its all part of it.





So they have agency? 

Quote:

Talking about Spirituality and Philosophy is no more connected to the human/mushroom experience then talking about Ants and Grass. Its all related and its all essential.


  Very true.  Your thoughts are like elephants fucking mice up the butt.

Quote:

The reason why S&P popped up instead of A&G is possibly because our primitive ancestors who ingested shrooms had not yet fully explored the realms of spirituality, gods and ways of interacting with each other and the world. Ants and Grass was known to them and there was not the desire to put so much emphasis on it. It seems that shrooms cropped up at about the same time that man began to question his existance and search for a greater meaning. It is therefor strongly embedded within our cellular and akashic memory a connection between philosophical thought and mushroom ingestion.


  This is retarded thinking on so many levels I can't even begin.  Truth from human experience taken down to a cellular level from a fungus?  And this relationship was discovered around and appreciated in lieu of ants and grass?  WHAT THE FUCK?

Quote:

I thought I would only be able to be philosophical on mushrooms until I asked myself if to explore new frontiers. I realised I could easily switch between deep meditation and sexual drive. Quite different ends of the common 7 chakras and yet equally supported in both.




Or retarded and normal intelligence.  Sober and tripping.  No chakras involved, just a clear, rational argument that escapes you.

Quote:

I feel there is a strong emphasis on S&P in this time it could be because the majority of man fears for his survival. He desperately seeks the truth. He feels uncertain and he is willing to put his heart on the line and express his opinions in order to reach out and connect with likeminded folk in order to hopefully make the world a better place.




You missed your time.  It was being retarded, hopped-up, and face-down in the mud at Woodstock 36 years ago.

Quote:

Maybe as more and more people begin to tap into the 'its cool' frequency where I reside most of the time, threads like Ants and Grass will pop up and the meaning and value we derive from exploring these seemingly meaningless worlds will grow exponentially into infinity.




It's also called narcissism and megalomania.  Get off the drugs and fucking do something with your brain.  Tweedlez! :heartpump:


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OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:

Edited by Bobo (08/18/05 01:12 AM)

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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Bobo]
    #4549918 - 08/18/05 12:56 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

OUchies, and it takes one to know one.


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4549926 - 08/18/05 12:59 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What are you, a kid? Bobo initiates deep philosophical discussion and you say it takes one to know one?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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OfflineBobo
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4549987 - 08/18/05 01:21 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

iambobby said:
OUchies, and it takes one to know one.





Well, we're all one anyway--if we can just realize it. And I'm betting our ancestors knew it from the fungus they ate and they chose that infinity over the ants on the grass at their feet. So why argue over something so trivial?


--------------------
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:

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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Bobo]
    #4550089 - 08/18/05 01:41 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I aint arguing, I'm partying. I apoligise man - I know I made a narsisistic comment but thats just what I do in good company for fun.

"It takes one to know one" is some of the deepest philosophical discussion to take place here. I think you can only identify with symbols that you understand. Being able to name them in the kind of knowing statement that Bobo made means he is able to relate to it. Man, I'm not gonna cut you down if you write a post with your ideas that make you look like a champion. I'll look for the champion in you. That was one quality roasting and I felt it. I love a good roasting hehehe


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4550116 - 08/18/05 01:46 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"We have a connection, you and I" ~ Agent Smith
Possibly my favourite part in the movie.


--------------------
Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4550125 - 08/18/05 01:48 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What do you mean by agency?


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

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OfflineBobo
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4550161 - 08/18/05 01:57 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not trying to belittle you in any way. I was arguing with the ideas expressed.

And "agency" means volition. An inanimate, non-sentient--okay, Stamets may questiont that--organsim can't affect your mind/body down to a cellular level with any volitional, coherent approach, and "teach" you something if it has no mind. You can learn through experience that is subjective, and if the experience is influenced by a non-sentient factor/addition, that's fine. But that's like caffeine or sugar.


--------------------
OneMoreRobot3021 said:
the pub mods are a cancer on our society as a whole.
pantsboy said:
Do kittens contain mescaline?  Because they should.

My GF & ME :heart:

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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Bobo]
    #4550291 - 08/18/05 02:25 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I more align with Terrence's idea of them being like an alien that are coming in to have a human experience. I may have twisted what he said though its been a while since I've listened to his stuff.

I think just like us, they desire to go into new frontiers and want to learn about us, as we desire to learn about them. I feel like they possibly learn from us and then send the teachings back to the mothership (their collective consciousness) and pass it back down. A sort of symbiotic teaching relationship. We learn a little bit from them while they a little bit from us.

I know this probably contradicts what I originally posted but I can't let myself become to attached to an idea because it can change as quickly as it comes in. I really liked the way gettingjiggywithin explained it in another forum and it helped me understand myself in a way I hadn't thought before. It was something like shifting between the polarities of belief/surrender and proof/control and that as we move between these 2 ends of the same force we naturally contradict ourself. Brilliant!

I think the shrooms basically have no agenda built into them except to offer what they have learned from us already throughout their interactions with us through the ages passed. So now I am inclined to say that they can lean in favour of spiritual and philosophical breakthroughs because of this gathering and sharing of information.
If you want to goto a new place you haven't gone before, the shroom collective sends an instant beam of the memory of how to unlock those doors and therefor makes evolution easier. No proof of this to offer, but I've felt frequencies sort of like a vibrational currents that I haven't felt before while on them.

When some friends and I sat in a circle one said "hey can you feel that vibration?" almost immediately, we all knew exactly what he was talking about however we could all admit that we couldn't feel it until he said it. We then sat for a few minutes just feeling it in silence. Then like zip, without anyone saying anything else we all started looking at each other in amazement as we felt the vibration jump up a notch and intensify. Could be the shrooms just coming on but it definately was a real sense of unity and shifting up the frequencies in the same moment. The thing is, we were all semi-disbelievers of connected minds and collective experience and yet we all walked away that night knowing we had been taught something about how we evolve as a group. We experienced critical mass within our group and being taught things we were not fully aware of.

Maybe the mushrooms had learned about these frequencies from other humans in the past who had shared this feeling and state of unity... Maybe mushrooms have nailed it all and we're learning everything from them... Maybe they're learning equally as much as us... And maybe its just darwin theory or just another accident in paradise. When I ask myself which one I choose to believe in I go for the one that feels more exciting and that is mushrooms are alien friends who talk in mushroom forums in hyperspace just like we do and look forward to their next human experience.

I wonder if different types of mushroom consciousness argue with each other or whether they are more accepting then we are? As in, I wonder if cyans archetype consciousness tries to prove the cubensis is airy fairy for being less willing to explore the areas it has developed its strengths in...


--------------------
Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4550366 - 08/18/05 02:49 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Moses said something along the lines of shrooms don't give you spiritual power but they will test it within you. Of course, the way its written in the bible is written in old speak and he may just be talking about random bits of round bread with a sort of blue jam that reveals itself when you touch it, laying in the dew filled grass. But I have come to think that the mushrooms won't try and force anything upon you but they will reveal the blockages inside of you that stand in the way of a full unity between one another. Sort of like beings coming inside and saying "hey we found this wall within you that is blocking you from knowing god".

They won't push the doorway open unless you decide to open it yourself.

I have further solidified this belief in my time at shroomery.org. I have found that it is not a given that people who have induced mushrooms are fully open minded beings. The mushrooms only go as far as we allow them. This is cool. They are safe. I think I act like a shroom. It seems I bring up alot of resistance in people just by offering my view of things. I'm not here to overwhelm or be of threat, just to offer another perspective.


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4550395 - 08/18/05 02:59 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Mushrooms contain an active ingredient which has some interesting effects on the brain, but more than that I doubt. You entire viewpoint seems to be bundle of faith with no evidence.

Though you could argue empirical evidence is evidence. Then again, so could a schizophrenic seeing UFOs. If empirical evidence cannot be given to others in an experience, then the evidence isn't usually reliable enough to base an entire mindset around.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4550441 - 08/18/05 03:12 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Whats emperical evidence?

The evidence I use that sways is the power I naturally resonate through the words I speak and my responses to what happens. This is all I need to communicate my perspective and blossom the flowers I give birth to in another person.

I have based an entire mindset around it and I'm doing fine. I'm tripping balls 99% of the time while running a business with very solidly grounded people in the everyday world. It works for me and I feel successful. I don't try to avoid evidence and tangible laws. My ways afford me the luxury to sit here and think cool shit alot and I am enjoying the journey.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4550459 - 08/18/05 03:20 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ravus said:
Just because a field of physics can't be directly tested yet it doesn't mean it's philosophy.

M-Theory is more than philosophy because it has actual science behind it. It has complex mathematics to explain the concepts within it, and it is strictly bound by the puzzle which is around the blank piece it's trying to fit in. The Tao has none of these aspects.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Here's something on this from another forum.

posted August 15, 2005 10:43 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Phalanx:
Seems to me that most if it is jerking off for no good reason other than to satisfy some deeply seated insecurity.
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You want a good reason? As if there were such a thing...
I'll tell you, there are two philosophies that have helped me immensely in battling depression and anxiety, namely Taoism and Vedanta. That's reason enough.

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Most discipline is hidden discipline, designed not to liberate but to limit. Do not ask Why? Be cautious with How? Why? leads inexorably to paradox. How? traps you in a universe of cause and effect. Both deny the infinite.
- Frank Herbert


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Posts: 1512 | From: The Manhattan Project | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Private

Sepp
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Member # 5214
posted August 15, 2005 02:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Phalanx:
Seems to me that most if it is jerking off for no good reason other than to satisfy some deeply seated insecurity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whilst philosophy has not produced any answers worth to mention it has indeed provided us with the art of asking correct questions and formal logic.
And though formal logic is not suitable to answer the metaphysical questions raised by philosophy it is a worthy tool in designing algorithms for example. I suppose that this is fruitful for both sides - computers provide us with random number generators which are IMHO useful in answering those metaphysical questions......
methinks



--------------------

We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality. - Einstein


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Posts: 960 | From: Eutropika | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Private

heraclitus
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posted August 15, 2005 03:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmm.. let's try to think of some of philosophy's sucessful projects.. well, MATH and SCIENCE come to mind.. those turned out to be pretty fuckin useful.
Philosophy is theory, so when it becomes useful, it stops being philosophy and becomes something else.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 960 | From: Eutropika | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Private


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4550474 - 08/18/05 03:29 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I just want to add I'm tripping balls naturally. Coffee and the occasional smoke absolutely flaws me.. I'm very sensitive to drugs/psychedelics because I'm a sensitive guy. Please don't try to hurt me. I've done shrooms probably about 9 times but each experience has meant alot to me. I've done LSD twice. One was heaven the other a nightmare but with hindsight the nightmare was incredible. I've done DMT 3 times and am picking up a batch tonight from a good friend. I haven't done DMT in a year and it showed me worlds I didn't believe in.

When you begin to see things you don't believe in enough times as I have, you start to let go of the desire to prove things. If you've ever found yourself in a reality with your eyes wide open and nothing is the same as you thought it do be - its very hard to resist the idea that theres more going on than you can explain with linear time / thought. When this happens, the need for evidence drops away as quickly as the doubt and fear comes up when you are presented with the completely undescribable.

I've been reality surfing my friend and it is very fun indeed. Wave after wave of new realities overwhelming your senses and perceptions. And as quickly as you try and struggle to understand where the fuck you are in the universe it wipes away and you're somewhere else totally undescribable. Unlike sleeping/dreaming, where you are able to believe it is real, creating past memories that supports the momentary experience you are having, this is nothing like that. You know you are in places you haven't been before, thought of before or seen in books. The search is over to explain everything as you realise the futility in trying to attain and understand the infinity and you allow your mind to finally rest as you surrender into the knowing that there is truly something miraculous and undescribable on your side. You now feel safe.


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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4550493 - 08/18/05 03:44 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

When I say nothing is the same as you thought it to be I mean something like this. Look around your current surroundings and take an inventory of all the variables you can see. Now imagine them all shifting into something else. Instead of the walls being wood they are now brick. Instead of the plant being bamboo, its now an apple tree. This is an easy and conceivable switch taking place. Now imagine them turning into variables you don't even understand or can't even describe. I'm not saying like you can see through them - I'm saying they turn into something you can't even begin to describe after you've come down because its not even something you recognise with the symbols you have learnt to identify with. Words. Values. None of it applies. Its beyond your cognition and this is why so many people walk away from mind blowing DMT trips basically unable to even remember what the hell happened.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4550719 - 08/18/05 07:24 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I'm a sensitive guy. Please don't try to hurt me.




Bobby! Chill pill, please. No one wants to hurt anyone here.(usually) :grin: No ones words can hurt you unless you choose to feel hurt. You will need some thick skin to be on these forums. But, as Swami says, keep you soft chewy center. :grin:

Now. Lay off the coffee and any speed type drugs.:whoa: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4551641 - 08/18/05 12:56 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for all your responses and fascinating discussion folks.

Oh, and Fireworks God, thanks for playing... finally. :wink:

If you ever become a Mod, I'm hazing your ass in the Moderator Forum!


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Offlineiambobby
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4552726 - 08/18/05 06:12 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

HAHAHAH icelander, if only you could see my cheeky grin when I wrote that  :rofl2:

Today, i made a breakthrough, my girlfriend wanted coffee and I said she's gonna need to do it alone. I'm pretty sure if the agents got a hold of me when I was younger they would have told me I had A.D.D or something and put me on the speed to numb me down. Oh well. Thankyou S&P for creative outlet.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4552758 - 08/18/05 06:20 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Philosophy is theory, so when it becomes useful, it stops being philosophy and becomes something else.




That's an interesting theory. Sounds like rise of protoscience like alchemy and astrology into real modern scientific fields like chemistry and astronomy.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4552773 - 08/18/05 06:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah Ravus, thats what caught my eye too.  :thumbup: You should really check out the Lycaeum. They are real science heads and way beyond me in dicussions of math and science ( not hard to do :tongue:) You would find many fun discussions and they would love you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineSerioOria
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: iambobby]
    #4552845 - 08/18/05 06:43 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

iambobby said:
HAHAHAH icelander, if only you could see my cheeky grin when I wrote that  :rofl2:

Today, i made a breakthrough, my girlfriend wanted coffee and I said she's gonna need to do it alone. I'm pretty sure if the agents got a hold of me when I was younger they would have told me I had A.D.D or something and put me on the speed to numb me down. Oh well. Thankyou S&P for creative outlet.




why, u not do caffeine??

im lost now, then again im on some kickass pain killers


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4552928 - 08/18/05 07:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Just because a field of physics can't be directly tested yet it doesn't mean it's philosophy.

M-Theory is more than philosophy because it has actual science behind it. It has complex mathematics to explain the concepts within it, and it is strictly bound by the puzzle which is around the blank piece it's trying to fit in. The Tao has none of these aspects.




If it can't be tested, it ain't a theory.

Quote:

Philosophy is theory, so when it becomes useful, it stops being philosophy and becomes something else.




Most analytic philosophy is rationale and logic. Theories cannot be built off of rationale and logic alone.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4553336 - 08/18/05 08:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

rofl at your avatar SerioOria...

If I have a coffee in the morning, while the rest of the world is trying to goto sleep that night, I'm still racing away blah blah blahblah... Come 3:30am and I'm looking at the back of my eyelids. I can calm my thoughts down but I'm still left with this feeling of pure alertness. I wake up and even though I only managed to capture an hour of sleep, imediately its blah blah blah this thought that thought. I guess i've just come to appreciate the calmness of a relaxed nervous system more than being in that flight or fight mode. I feel more influencial in the world when I am calm. I feel I can be tipped off axis when I have caffeine pumping through my veins.

I'm starting to see it as a sort of backwards economy. There's a high and in that time when you're up it feels great and the ideas are pumping and the code is ledgendary and whatever else happens to me thats good while on it, but when the shakes kick in and my sense of hunger begins to be distorted (e.g at dinner time after eating just a friand or something at a cafe for lunch with the coffee, i'm still not hungry), I start to question it..

Its interesting when I goto meetings and I haven't had coffee and I feel naturally healthy and vibrant. To look at the client who has just had a coffee and he seems quite unstable and jittery. In a way, I feel like I get a lot of work this way because chaos is naturally attracted to the calm. Besides all the specifics of what I offer I feel it is the under current vibration that is more influencial then the details. I think this also applies to philosophies. Why do so many 'false' gurus manage to attract a following? Cause people enter their lives at a time when they are uncertain, meanwhile the guru is basically resonating a vibration that is very chilled out and desirable. They probably don't even listen to what he/she's saying alot of the time, he/she just feels so good to them and so they override normal filters of belief and what do you know - these miracles happen.


--------------------
Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...

Edited by iambobby (08/18/05 08:33 PM)

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4553371 - 08/18/05 08:36 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If it can't be tested, it ain't a theory.




I agree, but it doesn't mean it's a philosophy either.

Many "theories" were not testable at their creation, but as science developed and technology grew better this changed. Perhaps the same will apply to M-Theory.

Though testing isn't necessarily the only way to develop science; if you know all the information around that theory then, like a puzzle missing a piece, you can formulate a hypothesis that may end up being very close to the truth using mathematics and other aids.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4553676 - 08/18/05 10:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:

Edited by MushmanTheManic (08/18/05 10:00 PM)

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4555597 - 08/19/05 01:55 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

It seems many scientists and linguists wish to define Spirituality, as part of the mushroom experience. Is there a better classification for them than:

http://deoxy.org/define/entheogen
Quote:


Entheogen
nov. verb.? Plant sacraments or shamanic inebriants evoking religious ecstasy or vision; commonly used in the archaic world in divination for shamanic healing, and in Holy Communion, for example during the Initiation to the Eleusinian Mysteries or the Vedic Soma sacrifice. Literally: becoming divine within. Hence: Age of Entheogens nov. verb., Entheogenic nov. verb.


1979 Ruck J. Psychedelic Drugs 11: 145. In Greek the word entheos means literally "god (theos) within"... In combination with the Greek root ?gen, which denotes the action of "becoming," this word results in the term that we are proposing: entheogen

1980 Wasson The Wondrous Mushroom, xiv. We are now rediscovering the secret and we should treat the "entheogens" with the respect to which they were richly entitled.

1986 Wasson Persephone's Quest, 31. We must break down the "Drugs" of popular parlance according to their properties and overcome our ignorance, which in this field is still monumental. "Entheogen" is a step in that direction.

1993 Ott Pharmacotheon, 19. I have been privileged to be initiated into the sacred realm of the entheogens... have imbibed the amrta of India, the ambrosia of the Olympian gods, Demeter's potion; have for brief blessed instants gazed into Lord Shiva's blazing third eye.




Would you prefer:
Quote:


psy?che?del?ic (sk-dlk)
adj.
Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis.
n.
A drug, such as LSD or mescaline, that produces such effects.
[psyche1 + Greek dloun, to make visible (from dlos, clear, visible; see dyeu- in Indo-European roots) + -ic.]
psyche?deli?cal?ly adv.




Or...
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=24170
Quote:

Definition of Hallucinogen

Hallucinogen: A drug that causes hallucinations (profound distortions in a person's perceptions of reality). Under the influence of hallucinogens, people see images, hear sounds, and feel sensations that seem real but do not exist. Some hallucinogens also produce rapid, intense emotional swings. Hallucinogens cause their effects by disrupting the interaction of nerve cells and the neurotransmitter serotonin. Distributed throughout the brain and spinal cord, the serotonin system is involved in the control of behavioral, perceptual, and regulatory systems, including mood, hunger, body temperature, sexual behavior, muscle control, and sensory perception.

LSD (an abbreviation of the German words for "lysergic acid diethylamide") is the drug most commonly identified with the term "hallucinogen" and the most widely used in this class of drugs. It is considered the typical hallucinogen, and the characteristics of its action and effects apply to the other hallucinogens, including mescaline, psilocybin, and ibogaine.




... or some other, yet to be mentioned term?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555612 - 08/19/05 02:02 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Mushrooms themselves are not connected to spirituality, but the reaction of psilocybin in the human brain can produce spiritual thoughts in the subject, making them believe the mushrooms themselves are somehow spiritual.

Mushrooms don't have brains; how can they be spiritual? The only thing spiritual about mushrooms is the way their chemical reactions influence the brain.

Of course, the experience could be called spiritual to some people; there's no denying that. There are so many terms to describe psychedelics like mushrooms and LSD it's really irrelevant which one you choose, as none of them will convey the experience.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4555618 - 08/19/05 02:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Heh, and as you wrote your reply, I fixed the scentence which hung you up.

Try again... and sorry for the late edit.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555626 - 08/19/05 02:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

And I think psychedelic is the best term, since:

hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis

are really universal to the mushroom experience. Hallucinations are just a small part of the trip, and it's not really an entheogen since a significant percentage of people who take it don't get "religious ectsasy or visions". Some kids just like to take them to distort their perception and alter their awareness without any "religious ecstasy" involved.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4555632 - 08/19/05 02:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
There are so many terms to describe psychedelics like mushrooms and LSD it's really irrelevant which one you choose, as none of them will convey the experience.




I disagree.

It is a FACT mindset greatly effects a trip.

Therefore the WORD which defines such, trip inducing, substances is of VITAL importance.

If mushrooms were known as, "Cowshit Psychosis" it would have a profound impact on future psychonauts.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555659 - 08/19/05 02:16 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

To an extent you're right, but the terms we're talking about aren't common with people to begin with. Outside of LSD, mushrooms, DMT and mescaline, how many people discern between entheogens, hallucinogens and psychedelics? To a normal person, none of these terms have very much attached, unlike, say, "cowshit" or "psychosis".


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555661 - 08/19/05 02:17 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Not all people see visualizations when they trip. It is NOT a universal experience... just common.

People have spiritual experiences while they trip... about as often as they hallucinate.

Concerning mushrooms, some would argue both words (hallucination and spiritual) mean the same thing, but their definitions are a bit different.

Quote:


spir?i?tu?al (spr-ch-l)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.
5. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.
n.
1.
a. A religious folk song of African-American origin.
b. A work composed in imitation of such a song.
2. Religious, spiritual, or ecclesiastical matters. Often used in the plural.




Quote:


hal?lu?ci?na?tion (h&#601;-l&#363;'s&#601;-n&#257;'sh&#601;n)
n.

1.
1. Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus and with a compelling sense of their reality, usually resulting from a mental disorder or as a response to a drug.
2. The objects or events so perceived.
2. A false or mistaken idea; a delusion.

hal?lu'ci?na'tion?al or hal?lu'ci?na'tive adj.







Your favorite word, psychedelic, neglects to mention anything about the Spiritual experience in its definition, and lingers on several negative (cowshit psychosis) properties.

Quote:


psy?che?del?ic (sk-dlk)
adj.
Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis.
n.
A drug, such as LSD or mescaline, that produces such effects.
[psyche1 + Greek dloun, to make visible (from dlos, clear, visible; see dyeu- in Indo-European roots) + -ic.]
psyche?deli?cal?ly adv.




Spirituality, once defined, covers the same territory, w/o lingering on any negative qualities... therefore reducing the likelihood of negative (guilt based) trips.

Now that these words have been defined, what mental image does the word psychedelic paint? What image does "Entheogen" paint?

This, "Image" effects the trips of the informed. It effects the imagination of the creative, and seeps into the culture.

This is of vital importance.


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Edited by Rose (08/19/05 02:32 PM)

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4555674 - 08/19/05 02:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Which is why both entheogen and hallucinogen aren't very good terms, because they're not universal to the trip. Sometimes you might hallucinate, or sometimes you might have a religious vision, but you can't label a drug on what you might get sometimes.

Psychedelic is really universal; altered awareness and distorted perception are nearly always there if you took a high enough dose to trip.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4555692 - 08/19/05 02:32 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry, late edit again.

I only posted half my point, out of excitement.

I am used to slower forums... and longer posts.

I'll get the hang of this place soon, be patient.


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (08/19/05 02:33 PM)

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Invisibleuriahchase
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4556438 - 08/19/05 06:45 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

here's why. why we need S&P
understand now?


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: uriahchase]
    #4557665 - 08/20/05 02:05 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What a waste of a post. I don't understand why you replied to Ravus.

So, is Spirituality a part of the mushroom experience or not?

Anyone...?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4557747 - 08/20/05 02:40 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
So, is Spirituality a part of the mushroom experience or not?




Is a blank piece of paper and a pencil ready to be guided a piece of art, or does it depend upon how the pencil is applied...?


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #4557921 - 08/20/05 05:20 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

The shroomery does not 'need' this forum. However, many members of the forum enjoy this forum, myself included.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4558315 - 08/20/05 09:30 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
What a waste of a post. I don't understand why you replied to Ravus.

So, is Spirituality a part of the mushroom experience or not?

Anyone...?



As I said earlier, spirituality is a part of the mushroom experience in the same sense that munchies are a part of the pot experience. That is to say that there is a strong correlation, but one does not necessarily lead to the other.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4561716 - 08/21/05 02:21 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

That was a great comment. :smile:

However, Spirituality is not nearly as tangible as snack food. :wink:

It seems Spirituality is harder to define and/or put a finger on, than Philosophy, for most people...

So Spirituality can be overlooked in this forum.

However, Spirituality, is the very definition of the psychedelic experience.

Also, spirituality, more than any other reason, is why people have eaten these things for thousands of years.

This vague thing (Spirituality) is the very reason mushrooms  are talked about today.

Yet, getting someone to admit a connection between spirituality and mushrooms in this, the SPIRITUALITY forum, can sometimes feel like pulling teeth. :smirk:

I feel it is important, and fun, for this community to look at Spirituality with a scientific eye... because it seems mushrooms can  inspire (or reduce) spirituality in those who eat them. There is no doubt, mushrooms put spirituality in the front of a spiritual mind.


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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4561899 - 08/21/05 07:18 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

There is no doubt, mushrooms put spirituality in the front of a spiritual mind.




Spot on! Good post. :smile:


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4564709 - 08/21/05 09:37 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

So what is the difference between Spirituality, and hallucinations?


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OfflineKerr
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4564799 - 08/21/05 09:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I think that spirituality is a way to make sense of the hallucinations


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"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4564815 - 08/21/05 09:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

For me at least mostly the spiritual part comes after I'm down and back to "normal" for awhile. It's like my friend says. "The Universe only asks one thing of us, and that is; how much can you take?"

I usually trip with committed doses alone out in wilderness places. It is usually frightening in various ways. My ego unusually struggles to maintain control and then cannot as it is overwhelmed by the strength of the psychedelic. The fear is intense. Fear of dying, or letting go and letting the universal flow take me. When surrender happens I usually end up in a bliss state. Later in my daily life when the challenges of living confront me. I find I am less afraid and can handle more. That is because of taking the challenge to take that dose and face my fear. That's how it works for me. And then of course you may get a direct vision or find a new way of thinking about things during the trip itself. It may be different for everyone. I suspect it is.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Kerr]
    #4564868 - 08/21/05 10:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RyanKerr said:
I think that spirituality is a way to make sense of the hallucinations



And vice versa


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4565161 - 08/21/05 11:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, but how is seeing intangable things of the SPIRIT, any different from seeing things which do not exist?

How does one know if they are making sense of spirituality, when spirituality lives in the mind, and not (necessarily) in the world?


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Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4565186 - 08/21/05 11:29 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

It seems impossible to verify spirituality.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4565202 - 08/21/05 11:32 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

What makes you think things you can't see with your physical eyes do not exists? Do you see ultraviolet rays? They must not exist. Do you see the mirco waves nailing you from your microwave? they must not exist either. Can you hear a dog whistle? The dog that responds to it must be crazy. Can you smell the trail of a rabbit? The dog that follows it must be crazy.

Our five physical senses are limited to detecting a lot of whats going on around us and science is still inventing tools to detect more of it that are 5 physical senses can't.

Who knows what scientific tool will be able to detect up the road that exists that our 5 senses can't.

In the mean time, many are detecting more with their sixth sense and they discuss that extension of their experiential reality with it here.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4565217 - 08/21/05 11:37 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

But how do you tell the difference between a delusion and a genuine example of something beyond human perception?

You can't assume that schizophrenics and all the people in insane asylums just realize something more than other humans, because you need evidence to do that. We can gather evidence of matters beyond human perception with science, but if it can be verified neither by science nor by human perception, it would be unwise to assume it true.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4565218 - 08/21/05 11:37 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Ultraviolet rays, etc, are measurable and can be experienced with the use of various tools.
Some day, we may find a tool (possibly psychedelics?) to explore spirituality and the paranormal, but for now, they remain beyond the realm of empiricalism.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4565263 - 08/21/05 11:47 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
What makes you think things you can't see with your physical eyes do not exists? Do you see ultraviolet rays? They must not exist. Do you see the mirco waves nailing you from your microwave? they must not exist either. Can you hear a dog whistle? The dog that responds to it must be crazy. Can you smell the trail of a rabbit? The dog that follows it must be crazy.




Actually, I believe spirituality exists, but if you will recall from earlier in this discussion, the very definition of spirituality... describes it as intangible... immaterial. Unlike your examples, Spirituality can't be measures by instruments.

Quote:


spir?i?tu?al (spr-ch-l)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.
5. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.
n.
1.
a. A religious folk song of African-American origin.
b. A work composed in imitation of such a song.
2. Religious, spiritual, or ecclesiastical matters. Often used in the plural.




Spirituality certainly exists inside the mind. Of that there is no doubt... but I have yet to SEE it, HEAR it, TASTE it or SMELL it... because it is (by its own definition) immaterial. AND, if I said I FELT it, I could only mean EMOTIONALLY... because spirituality lives inside the mind. I do not doubt the existence of spirituality, I just don't see much expression of it, in this forum. I wish there was more, because Spirituality is a large part of the mushroom experience. It should be better understood.

In fact, the definition of spirituality is VERY similar to the definition of this word:

Quote:


hal?lu?ci?na?tion
n.

1.
1. Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus and with a compelling sense of their reality, usually resulting from a mental disorder or as a response to a drug.
2. The objects or events so perceived.
2. A false or mistaken idea; a delusion.

hal?lu'ci?na'tion?al or hal?lu'ci?na'tive adj.





So, what's the difference between Spirituality and hallucinating?

Is spirituality during the mushroom experience, just a hallucination, or is spirituality more than that?


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Fiddlesticks.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Ravus]
    #4565291 - 08/21/05 11:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
But how do you tell the difference between a delusion and a genuine example of something beyond human perception?

You can't assume that schizophrenics and all the people in insane asylums just realize something more than other humans, because you need evidence to do that. We can gather evidence of matters beyond human perception with science, but if it can be verified neither by science nor by human perception, it would be unwise to assume it true.




An objective person can't know for sure. The subjective experience knows it experienced what it did and it's valid to that person in that sense. I beleive people beleive what they do. I can remain unbiased about it. It's not hard to do.

Funny you bring this up. I watched the movie A Beautiful Mind with Russel Crow playing John nash, the Nobel Prize winner for the Equilibrium Theory and Math proffessor at Princeton, again last night.

He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. The movie is fascinating to me. He said to one of his collegues that when he was on the medication, he couldn't see the answers any more to complicated math problems.

he was brilliant, extremely logic and empirical evidenced oriented and saw so much within his mind that was validated by his proffesional peers.

I had to ask, why were the answers and solutions he saw validated and not the people he saw and heard.

True, mathematical and other problematic answered can be validated. Science and math has no tool yet for validating the people and voices. Maybe that part was delusion and maybe not. I can't say they weren't for sure if everything else that came from his inner vision was validated that could be.

Why was some of what came from his far out mind accepted and not all of it at his word? I wonder this.

Anyway, in his acceptance speech, he talked about his "dis-order" leading him into all sorts of pursuits including the metaphyisical.
I wanted to google him and see if he developed any sort of scientific or mathematical explanation to himself for his schizophrenia. He also told the audience that love was the most logical highest order he found. That was cool.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4565600 - 08/22/05 01:30 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Cool post... wish it proved something... but I like how you think.


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Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4565915 - 08/22/05 06:32 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Yes, but how is seeing intangable things of the SPIRIT, any different from seeing things which do not exist?

How does one know if they are making sense of spirituality, when spirituality lives in the mind, and not (necessarily) in the world?




I don't get what you are talking about? You live in the world and your life is spirit. As you live your life your spirituality is tested and lived out. What you think about manifests in one way or another. Spirit is tangable. Psychedelics just stimulate growth in some people.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Icelander]
    #4566527 - 08/22/05 01:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Please then if the spirit is tangible, show me your spirit, or someone else's. Send it to me, let me hold it.

When someone farts, you aren't smelling their spirit, you are smelling their last meal.

The spirit is not life, life is life. :wink:

If the spirit is more than a thought, it has yet to be proven, or defined.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Why does The Shroomery need this forum? [Re: Rose]
    #4699213 - 09/23/05 03:06 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
The spirit is not life, life is life. :wink:





Spirituality is more like the being of life, the experience of life, in my opinion..... Its the state of existance of life. Spirit is the present tense action/state that is taking place. Movement, breathing, these are spirit... Primitive people were involved with this concept, I think it was later misinterpreted as being some seperate quality, when it is, in actuality, the fact that there is life in the first place.

I wouldn't say that spirit is life itself, but, in a sense, it sort of is. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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