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OfflineAnnom
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: unearth]
    #4541649 - 08/16/05 08:52 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

unearth said:
and which a lot of people dont know is tar is not what causes cancer,its the radioactiviy in cigaretts that does.




I'm not so sure about this. Haven't seen any good evidence supporthing this hypothesis. Can you show me the light?

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Invisiblekake
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: Annom]
    #4541740 - 08/16/05 09:23 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

20 minutes sounds like a underestimation to me :wink:


no offense to you bluntsmokers, I got nothing but love for ya, but the blunts ARE BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH.  At least accept that.

I like your calculation Wiccan_Seeker, except you said the average potsmoker lives to 70.  Is that a fact?  And shouldn't it be "the average daily blunt smoker?  I'd be surprised if they lived to 68.


--------------------
The answer to 1984 is 1776.

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Offlineelaspeinreason
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: kake]
    #4541749 - 08/16/05 09:27 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

blunts are a waste of bud personally , shit stick to bowls !


--------------------
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one

Diploid said:
What's with proclaiming freedom by abridging freedom? That makes no sense.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: kake]
    #4541869 - 08/16/05 10:20 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I like your calculation Wiccan_Seeker, except you said the average potsmoker lives to 70. Is that a fact? And shouldn't it be "the average daily blunt smoker? I'd be surprised if they lived to 68




We dont know that yet.

The sad truth is however that many people who started heavy potsmoking in the 60s, 70s and 80s and who smoke heavily to this day are starting to either die off or have fucked lungs audible when they breathe or talk and they also tend to cough alot. Thats not the state of the world, but of the people I've seen throughout the years.

The heavy potsmokers of old don't look like they'll get very old proportional to the amount they smoked and whether they still smoke.

My mission is to get the potheads away from the smoke and turned onto preferably eating or perhaps vaporized. I'm not going to debate this once more but let me just say: "I have seen alot, I have read alot and smoking marijuana definately is BAD for health."
The War On Drugs people can be satisfied because there might just be alot of dying in the coming decades and they can say: "we told you pot was bad".

Stop smoking. Eat it and make it last or vaporize for the quick fix. But don't smoke it unless you are willing to accept that you are engaging in a dangerous activity that may indeed cost you years of your life, only because it was smoked. You can't reason or argue the lid off your coffin once its screwed in place.

Marijuana may be low-risk, but smoking ANY herb always gives substantial risk. It's as simple as learning to appreciate a different way to use your favorite drug.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: Asante]
    #4541931 - 08/16/05 10:43 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I think the 20 min. is fairly ridiculous. While I cannot recall a specific source off the top of my head; when looking at cigarette smokers, most studies have shown that after quitting for approximately 15 years, you're risk of developing "cigarette-related disease" is not significantly different from that of a non-smoker. Basically put, there are too many other variables.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: badchad]
    #4542026 - 08/16/05 11:21 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I believe the 20 minutes (or my 29 minutes) hold true for people who keep smoking. Still if you have enhanced cell death in your lungs for instance then that is irreversible damage.

Suppose you smoked three packs (or 1/8oz if its weed) a day for 40 years, then quit.. would you be at same-risk as nonsmokers 15 years later? Somehow I dont think so. Also aging is enhanced throughout the body (smoker skin becomes wrinkly, boozer skin shiny/leathery in extreme cases) which also cannot be reversed.

Smoking is bad news.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: Asante]
    #4542565 - 08/16/05 01:35 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

we're forgetting that THC has been shown to slow/stop the growth of cancerous cells though.

so the bottom line as far as i can tell is:
there isn't enough research, cannabis needs to be legalized and effective harm reduction standards for cannabis goods need to be met. [go down to wal-mart and buy pot brownies, for example]

there is a huge debate over whether tar causes cancer, or whether it is the radioactivity in cigarettes... just knowing that radioactivity is substantially bad for you leads me to believe it's probably the latter.

So assuming that pot doesn't, generally, cause cancer.... we can still say that smoking is very unhealthy, could lead to bronchitis, respiratory/throat problems, etc..... but will those lead to a substantially earlier death compared to a non-pot smoking population when contrasted with medicinal benefits of THC?

It's hard to say because unlike tobacco smoke, weed smoke is substantially "nicer" to the lungs, it opens them up instead of making them shrivel.... it's all in how much you do it, how harshly you do it..... etc. And if tar isn't what causes cancer then bongs, etc, may actually be effective since the cooled smoke doesn't damage the lungs as bad as ripping from a hot pipe does.
[even though hitting the bong really hurts my chest for a while, after the high is gone i feel about 10x better than if i smoked a bowl from a normal pipe, i don't know how others feel]

But the bottom line is that smoking is bad for you and you should primarily vaporize and if you are a lucky bastard that can AFFORD IT..... (or are brave enough to grow) cook with it.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (08/16/05 01:38 PM)

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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
Male

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,026
Loc: the sky
Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: kosmic_charlie]
    #4542569 - 08/16/05 01:36 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kosmic_charlie said:
No because I'd be dead now if that were true.




:lol:


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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OfflineShroomArtist84
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #4542970 - 08/16/05 04:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

lol ridicoulous bs myths.


--------------------
No matter what I say and no matter what I write here.

I'm sick of always looking at this page with a blank stare.

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Offlinegroingrinder
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Registered: 05/22/02
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: unearth]
    #4543108 - 08/16/05 04:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

It only seems like 20 hours because you are stoned.


--------------------
Let's not confuse truth with reality.

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InvisibleStickyWater
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Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 1,680
Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: groingrinder]
    #4543483 - 08/16/05 06:42 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)


Edited by StickyWater (05/03/08 12:44 AM)

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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: leery11]
    #4543522 - 08/16/05 06:59 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
we're forgetting that THC has been shown to slow/stop the growth of cancerous cells though.

so the bottom line as far as i can tell is:
there isn't enough research, cannabis needs to be legalized and effective harm reduction standards for cannabis goods need to be met. [go down to wal-mart and buy pot brownies, for example]

there is a huge debate over whether tar causes cancer, or whether it is the radioactivity in cigarettes... just knowing that radioactivity is substantially bad for you leads me to believe it's probably the latter.

So assuming that pot doesn't, generally, cause cancer.... we can still say that smoking is very unhealthy, could lead to bronchitis, respiratory/throat problems, etc..... but will those lead to a substantially earlier death compared to a non-pot smoking population when contrasted with medicinal benefits of THC?

It's hard to say because unlike tobacco smoke, weed smoke is substantially "nicer" to the lungs, it opens them up instead of making them shrivel.... it's all in how much you do it, how harshly you do it..... etc. And if tar isn't what causes cancer then bongs, etc, may actually be effective since the cooled smoke doesn't damage the lungs as bad as ripping from a hot pipe does.
[even though hitting the bong really hurts my chest for a while, after the high is gone i feel about 10x better than if i smoked a bowl from a normal pipe, i don't know how others feel]

But the bottom line is that smoking is bad for you and you should primarily vaporize and if you are a lucky bastard that can AFFORD IT..... (or are brave enough to grow) cook with it.




Okay buddy believe what ever you wan't wiccan knows from experience. He almost had a fatal heart attack. Smoking no doubt contributed to this. The radioactive ciggeretes thing is mostly bullshit dude. It is true that some companies added chemicals but it has also been proven that tar is carcinogenic. Just keep taking huge bong rips all day and see how your lungs feel after 10-15 years. Probably worse then a cig smoker I would wager. Also when I has cannabis ever saved a terminally ill cancer patient? Thats what you will be once you contract lung cancer. I don't care what the studies say about cannabis shrinking cancer cells it doesen't save cancer patients. It alliviates their symptoms at best.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett

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Offlineunearth
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Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 260
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: Annom]
    #4544129 - 08/16/05 09:33 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Annom said:
Quote:

unearth said:
and which a lot of people dont know is tar is not what causes cancer,its the radioactiviy in cigaretts that does.




I'm not so sure about this. Haven't seen any good evidence supporthing this hypothesis. Can you show me the light?




"So, you thought it was the tar that caused cancer...

Think again. Cigarette companies will have you believing
anything just as long as you continue to buy their products. The
fact is, although insoluble tars are a contributing factor to the
lung cancer danger present in today's cigarettes, the real danger
is radioactivity. According to U.S. Surgeon General C. Everette
Koop (on national television, 1990) radioactivity, not tar,
accounts for at least 90% of all smoking related lung cancer.Many people think smoking marijuana is just as harmful as
smoking tobacco, but this is not true.
Those who hold that
marijuana is equivalent to tobacco are misinformed. Due to the
efforts of various federal agencies to discourage use of
marijuana in the 1970's the government, in a fit of "reefer
madness," conducted several biased studies designed to return
results that would equate marijuana smoking with tobacco smoking,
or worse.
Cannabis tars do
not contain radioactive materials.In addition, it was
considered that:

1) Most marijuana smokers smoke the bud, not the leaf, of
the plant. The bud contains only 33% as much tar as tobacco.
2) Marijuana smokers do not smoke anywhere near as much as
tobacco smokers, due to the psychoactive effects of cannabis.
3) Not one case of lung cancer has ever been successfully
linked to marijuana use.
4) Cannabis, unlike tobacco, does not cause any narrowing of
the small air passageways in the lungs.
In fact, marijuana has been shown to be an expectorant and
actually dilates the air channels it comes in contact with. This
is why many asthma sufferers look to marijuana to provide relief.
Doctors have postulated that marijuana may, in this respect, be
more effective than all of the prescription drugs on the market.
Studies even show that due to marijuana's ability to clear
the lungs of smog, pollutants, and cigarette smoke, it may
actually reduce your risk of emphysema, bronchitis, and lung
cancer. Smokers of cannabis have been shown to outlive non-
smokers in some areas by up to two years. Medium to heavy
tobacco smokers will live seven to ten years longer if they also
smoke marijuana.



i love proving people wrong-heres where that info's at
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_health2.shtml

Edited by unearth (08/16/05 09:55 PM)

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Offlineunearth
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: unearth]
    #4544147 - 08/16/05 09:38 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"I have seen alot, I have read alot and smoking marijuana definately is BAD for health"

pot actually does a lot for you,check out thcministry.net then click cannabis info and youd be suprised how many good things it does for you.

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Offlineunearth
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: unearth]
    #4544156 - 08/16/05 09:39 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"I like your calculation Wiccan_Seeker, except you said the average potsmoker lives to 70. Is that a fact? And shouldn't it be "the average daily blunt smoker? I'd be surprised if they lived to 68"

8. Cannabinoids slow down the aging process. Mice that their brains respond to cannabinoids live longer and mice that have brains that block the CB1 receptors die younger.

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InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: unearth]
    #4545137 - 08/17/05 01:07 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cannabinoids slow down the aging process. Mice that their brains respond to cannabinoids live longer and mice that have brains that block the CB1 receptors die younger.




Oh yeah? Then why use marijuana as a smoke, which is full of known health hazards that were not present in the plant before you set it on fire? Is it perhaps because 19/20 people are so eager for a quick fix that they don't eat marijuana, too lazy to actually prepare marijuana and too cheap to either spend more money on the tad more you need for ingestion or the cost of a vaporizer?

Oh btw: mice with brains that block CB1 are not healthy mice but rather a mutant strain of laboratory mice who are destined for early death anyway, pot or no pot.

Quote:

"So, you thought it was the tar that caused cancer...
Think again. Cigarette companies will have you believing
anything just as long as you continue to buy their products.




LOL! ...ya I'm sure the tobacco companies would want you to believe that the tar in their product causes cancer, I'm sure thats realistic.

Why dont they take the tars out if the public wants that? I will tell you: tars DO cause respiratory disease but if you take them out of the cigarette the cig loses its flavour and thereby consumer appeal. So the industry makes a tradeoff by putting in a bit of poison for flavor, but as little as possible as to not be too lethal.
Crumple up a couple of rolling papers, roll them in a joint and smoke it. That biting taste is what smouldering cellulose tastes like. Tobacco by necessity is loaded with cellulose. They use the tars to cover up that fiery sting. But you still smoke it!

Quote:

The
fact is, although insoluble tars are a contributing factor to the
lung cancer danger present in today's cigarettes, the real danger
is radioactivity.




No.
if tars "contribute" then they are a real problem too.
And where does this radioactivity come from? The soil? Are the united tobacco producers of North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia all involved in a fiendish evil plot to use radioactive Fertilizers and how come the entire agricultural community isnt affected? Lettuce! Spinach! Or do they add radioactivity deliberately so you can find your cigs in the dark?
BS. That Surgeon General can claim all she wants, that doesnt take the harm out of tars. And the harm goes far beyond cancer.
Look at the prevalence of lung cancer among smokers, then look at the prevalence of respiratory diseases.

Quote:

Many people think smoking marijuana is just as harmful as
smoking tobacco, but this is not true.
Those who hold that
marijuana is equivalent to tobacco are misinformed.




That is true. Marijuana is far more toxic.
A two packs a day smoker smokes over 1oz of tobacco every day and tends to do this for decades because his health gives out.
I'm wondering how many months you'll have left in this world if you smoked 1oz of high resin marijuana every day. Perhaps you'll live one month for every decade of the two packs a day smoker lives.

Quote:

Cannabis tars do
not contain radioactive materials.




Yes they do. Everything alive picks up and retains radioactivity. Cannabis is more radioactive than gasoline.

Quote:

1) Most marijuana smokers smoke the bud, not the leaf, of
the plant. The bud contains only 33% as much tar as tobacco.




Not after you heat it to 400-600 degrees celsius it doesnt. If marijuana is SMOKED it contains far more tars than tobacco.

Quote:

4) Cannabis, unlike tobacco, does not cause any narrowing of
the small air passageways in the lungs.
In fact, marijuana has been shown to be an expectorant and
actually dilates the air channels it comes in contact with. This
is why many asthma sufferers look to marijuana to provide relief.




That is a drug effect. And now here comes the truth: If you VAPORIZE then that might be useful. If you SMOKE you are literally opening up the most delicate tissues of your lungs to the irritant smoke components, which are deposited better because there now is far more lung surface area and the smoke is held in for longer.
So if you SMOKE this bronchodilation becomes dangerous, not beneficial.

Quote:

Studies even show that due to marijuana's ability to clear
the lungs of smog, pollutants, and cigarette smoke, it may
actually reduce your risk of emphysema, bronchitis, and lung
cancer. Smokers of cannabis have been shown to outlive non-
smokers in some areas by up to two years. Medium to heavy
tobacco smokers will live seven to ten years longer if they also
smoke marijuana.




Ha ha ha. :thumbdown:
I have a study that estimates, based on a computerized search of the medical literature, that in Great Britain alone possibly more than 10.000 people die from marijuana SMOKING alone. The study is deliberately unbiased and done by the British center for respiratory diseases. These people would cheer a drug as magical as what your sources suggest. But it is a lie. Smoking cannabis (or belladonna leaf) may provide shortterm relief but is detrimental in the long run because it is administered as a SMOKE.

Quote:


i love proving people wrong-heres where that info's at




If you love proving people wrong you'd better do some real research.
Erowid is a great source of information but it also has a lot of bullshit among its literature.

Nowhere in the drug world is hypocrisy so rampant as in the cannabis world.

Because, hey, why use marijuana as a smoke, which is full of known health hazards that were not present in the plant before you set it on fire? Is it perhaps because 19/20 people are so eager for a quick fix that they don't eat their marijuana, too lazy to actually prepare marijuana and too cheap to either spend more money on the tad more you need for ingestion or the cost of a vaporizer? 19/20 marijuana smokers don't even GROW their own, which you can do in a forest or windowsil or secluded somewhere, and which saves you thousands of dollars, ripoffs and opportunities to get busted for drug transactions.

19/20 marijuana users do not respect their bodies (or they wouldnt smoke but rather ingest otherwise) and they dont respect the herb.
If "I don't care" and "dude, whatever" were a drug, they were marijuana. It is sad to see such a beneficial plant being so abused. Marijuanas worst enemies are its users, because many of them prove drug crusaders right by treating the drug and their life as a throwaway item and this with a herb that isnt even formally addictive.

Good, you've Cut & Pasted an article and wrote a few words. Care to go at length in your own words?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Offline3six5
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: Asante]
    #4545425 - 08/17/05 02:15 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

um..don't think so hard about it... it takes 20 minutes to smoke that blunt.. so.. after u've smoked that blunt.. poof.. 20 minutes of ur life are gone.


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OfflineMindzpore
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Posts: 319
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: 3six5]
    #4546508 - 08/17/05 11:35 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

why is this even an issue for debate? .... smoking anything is bad for you, it doesn't matter if its tobacco, ganja or a pair of old socks.

and its not just one compound that is dangerous (tar-radioactivity) incinerating almost any plant materials will yield literally thousands of toxic and carcinogenic compounds.

im with wiccan, eating it is the way to go. sure you need a bit more to get high... but on the other hand, the high lasts longer.

and dont make me tell you "i told you so" at your deathbed.


--------------------
Mindzpores words of wisdom:
"If you think something is foolproof, you just haven't met proper fools".

Wiccan_Seeker said:
"It is better to adjust to become a better listener than to keep on cranking up the volume".

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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey
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Posts: 4,962
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Re: blunt takes 20 hours off your life? [Re: Mindzpore]
    #4546588 - 08/17/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mindzpore said:
why is this even an issue for debate? .... smoking anything is bad for you, it doesn't matter if its tobacco, ganja or a pair of old socks.




Why is it a debate because some people treat the idea of marijuana like they would their spoiled little kid. Little johnny can't do anything wrong hes a little angle. When the teacher calls home and says johnny has been acting up in class they will go in denial and blame the teacher or someone or something else. Same thing with the concept of marijuana for some people.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett

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OfflineThrasher420x
ΛηgΞl_?Γ_?eλŦħ
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Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 353
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: blunt takes 20 mintues off your life? [Re: unearth]
    #4546596 - 08/17/05 12:19 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

how are we to really say how long we are going to live anyway. no one knows that information.


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