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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Best UFO Evidence
    #4538776 - 08/15/05 06:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

There was a TV show on the other night presenting the best, THE ABSOLUTE BEST, evidence for UFOs as non-terrestrial craft.

After I watched for about 15 minutes as they presented photos from two hoaxes (Meier and Gulf Breeze) and two major misidentifications (Phoenix Lights and the filming of bugs as UFOS going 3000 mph), and then mentioned the hoaxed Alien Autopsy coming up, I had to switch channels.

I keep trying to give them a chance, but I guess I am just too damned close-minded...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4538827 - 08/15/05 06:32 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

HA! You're just a jaded cynic. You've obviously not seen the Yahweh video! :razz:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4538839 - 08/15/05 06:35 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Yahweh or Yeti?

I like a nice, fuzzy 8mm tape of a human in an ape-man suit as much as the next guy.

:popcorn:

BTW, I believe in Mothra.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleivi
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4538869 - 08/15/05 06:40 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I was abducted by a weather balloon once :shiftyeyes:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: ivi]
    #4538942 - 08/15/05 06:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Were you anally probed by a balloon daschund?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,887
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4538974 - 08/15/05 07:01 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

lol


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Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleivi
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4538976 - 08/15/05 07:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You don't want to know.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: ivi]
    #4539039 - 08/15/05 07:14 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You are correct. Thanks for sparing me.  :blush:



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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineiambobby
I am what I am
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Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 201
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4539079 - 08/15/05 07:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

hehehe you're funny Swami. This reminds me of my friend who has been preaching aliens for the last decade. He went out into the bush where there was no one else as he yelled out

"COMON!!! I've been telling everybody about you for years! Reveal yourselves don't make me look like a wanker", of course nobody came.

Whats your take on the disclosure project? www.disclosureproject.org - all these ex soldiers and officials and pilots basically saying they have all this technology that they have salvaged from Aliens and documentation of meetings between Government and E.T's...

I have read conspiracies that the idea of physical aliens is something the government is supporting in order to create even greater protection (control) over our planet. By creating an enemy greater then local terrorists we will put lasers in space to defend ourselves against them (or to zap any person who takes off his bracelet or leaves his HumanID card at home). Blip.


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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OfflineSerioOria
?!one#!>?

Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 566
Loc: upstate, SC
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4539096 - 08/15/05 07:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
HA! You're just a jaded cynic. You've obviously not seen the Yahweh video! :razz:




that thing was insane, if that was real im scared


Yahweh was a black man


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Live every day like it is your first
or
Live every day like it is your last
My ArT!!


Edited by SerioOria (08/15/05 07:25 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: iambobby]
    #4539142 - 08/15/05 07:35 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

all these ex soldiers and officials and pilots basically saying

I don't put much faith in people talking. (Will read your reference later.)

Here's the deal on one incident at least: the Roswell crash debris alleged covered nearly a square mile. Disregarding the fact that the debris pieces were considered "indestructible", there had to be thousands of these pieces. In nearly 60 years, not one single piece has turned up. If it were real some of those soldiers would have kept a souvenir or somehow slipped through the cracks. That is human nature.

Believers would have you accept that while the government makes egregious mistakes day after day in every way possible, that they had perfect security on all things alien.

Of course, today people forget that there was nearly zero interest in Roswell from roughly 1948 to 1973 when a paperback book came out shortly after Von Daniken's big error-filled seller, "In Search of Ancient Astronauts".


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: SerioOria]
    #4539223 - 08/15/05 08:00 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

that thing was insane, if that was real im scared

It was a hoax. However, Yahweh played the mindless TBs well, and got a load of cash and a new video camera for his trouble.

[sighs] I'm in the wrong business... :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: iambobby]
    #4539305 - 08/15/05 08:15 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Dr. (doctor? - Bwah ha ha!) Stephen Greer (mentioned in the Disclosure Project) was in Pahrump, NV (50 miles from Vegas) about 6 years ago with a gaggle of UFO nuts with a bullhorn, flashlights and a laser to signal and guide the mothership in. There were some 40 -50 participants.

Naturally, no Mothership showed. Hard to take this guy seriously.


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (08/15/05 10:39 PM)


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Offlineiambobby
I am what I am
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Registered: 07/22/05
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Loc: Australia
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4539723 - 08/15/05 10:00 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Its interesting that so much energy goes into searching for aliens. What do you think drives man on this quest? I mean, how many billions($$$) has gone into sending robots to Mars to look for signs of bacteria and water??? What do we gain, or what do we lose from discovering life beyond us? Is it fear that drives us? Do we want to know whether or not we have superior competitors or if we are alone, does it add extra novelty and importance to the human race?


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: iambobby]
    #4539801 - 08/15/05 10:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

"Do we want to know whether or not we have superior competitors or if we are alone, does it add extra novelty and importance to the human race?"

I think mankind as a whole does not want to be alone. To know that out in the great beyond are billions of lifeforms and civilizations gives our species a feeling of purpose. It is a spiritual quest as well as a scientific one. In my view to know that we are alone in the limitless void of space speaks of an accident where life evolved as a fluke. To know life is common in the universe implies a sense of purpose. IMO of course.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4539815 - 08/15/05 10:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Dr. (doctor? - Bwah ha ha!) Stephen Greer (mentionined in the Disclosure Project)was in Pahrump, NV (50 miles from Vegas) about 6 years ago with a gaggle of UFO nuts with a bullhorn, flashlights and a laser to signal and guide the mothership in. There were some 40 -50 participants.

Naturally, no Mothership showed. Hard to take this guy seriously.




I'm sure the mothership was on repairs, you know, lifting the motherhood to check the oil


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlineiambobby
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Registered: 07/22/05
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4539866 - 08/15/05 10:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

"To know life is common in the universe implies a sense of purpose."
Ahh... we're hoping to find that we inhabit a friendly intelligent universe with a plan or meaning. I agree with this.

"In my view to know that we are alone in the limitless void of space speaks of an accident where life evolved as a fluke."
I agree with this as well, but I am also open to the idea that it takes a limitless void of space in order to create a speck of what we term life. Kinda like the idea with the majority of matter is not matter, e.g 99.99999999%(obviously I don't know exactly the percentage) of matter is a vacuum but it seems that this is how this reality works. Its possible that it takes a whole lotta universal equations to pop out this tiny fragment we call earth. This can add extra meaning to our existance.


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Yesterday, the world was flat. Today, the world is a round ball. Tomorrow? The world will not be defined so easily with words...


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Offlinekiosk
Stranger
Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 9
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: iambobby]
    #4644882 - 09/11/05 05:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What about all the ancient art and paintings that depict flying saucers and other space craft? I saw a cave painting dating back to about 8500 years ago that had a picture of a small alien type figure very common to what people claim to see today(Gray). This creature had what appeared to be a space helmet on and was holding what looked exactly like a gun. How would these ancient peoples draw such a remarkable figure well before space helmets and guns were even invented. I believe the paintings were from Pakistan. There are hundreds of different pieces of art and artifacts depicting flying saucers and other worldy beings. There are also thousands of reports these days of weird things in our sky. Not just in the U.S. either as alot of people think, but from all over the world. Technology is being displayed that is far superior to our own, these beings are obviously thousands of years ahead of us. It really pains me for people to not take seriously all the reports given by credible witnesses on what is without a doubt one of the most important subjects of all time. I mean do you honestly think that in the vastness of space, in those trillions of planets out there, that we are the only things here? That we are the pinnacle of technology in this universe? That there is no possible way for there to be another life form out there with a much deeper understanding of how this universe works and how to manipulate it to be able to travel unfathomable distances.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4645098 - 09/11/05 09:54 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What about all the ancient art and paintings that depict flying saucers and other space craft?

Misinterpretation (perhaps deliberately) by UFO nuts who were playing amateur archaeologist. See for yourself:

http://www.catchpenny.org/abydos.html

and

http://www.catchpenny.org/alien.html

There are lots more, but I'll leave the research to you.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinekiosk
Stranger
Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 9
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4649116 - 09/12/05 04:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I see where you are going with that site and those particular heiroglyphics. The cave painting I am speaking about is something entirely different. There is CLEARLY a "grey" alien figure in this painting who is CLEARLY holding a gun of some sort. There are countless other paintings and art that depict things like this, as well as flying silver discs, and other anomalies atrributed to ET's. So perhaps I will leave the research to you.


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4649246 - 09/12/05 07:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4651166 - 09/12/05 06:29 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

There is CLEARLY a "grey" alien figure in this painting who is CLEARLY holding a gun of some sort. There are countless other paintings and art that depict things like this, as well as flying silver discs

References please?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: trick]
    #4651179 - 09/12/05 06:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

For the 100th time, UFO means UNIDENTIFIED Flying Object. The word UNIDENTIFIED means you do not know what it is. It does not mean it is an alien ship.

If I find a coin that I cannot identify, I don't assume I'm rich... I assume I have a coin whose value is currently unknown.

[sighs in frustration] :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
Male

Registered: 08/28/05
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Last seen: 11 years, 5 days
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: iambobby]
    #4651298 - 09/12/05 07:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This is a little off topic, and I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I don't believe there's life out there. I think this is it, and our "purpose" is to go on living (life wants to live). So we'll need to spread out, if we don't kill ourselves first, and eventually the universe will be inhabited. With enough time we won't even recognize ourselves anymore, and thus a diverse community will be born.

Wishful thinking, considering... sigh.


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"A Bad Day for Pants"


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4651779 - 09/12/05 08:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Life existing elsewhere is almost a certainty given the available data:

-V-e-r-y big universe

-Comparatively small number of available element combinations giving random chance a fair shot at making life

-Demonstrated self-assembly of some of those elements with carbon, forming amino acids in sterile laboratory experiments

-Lots of free energy from stars to locally counter thermodynamic entropy

-15 billion years worth of trial and error (give or take a day)

The list goes on...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineTheGus
The Walrus

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 387
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4652640 - 09/12/05 11:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yaweyh (sp?) video still messed with me, why did it have to be a black guy  :rimshot:


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"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos


Edited by TheGus (09/12/05 11:50 PM)


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Offlinekiosk
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: TheGus]
    #4653863 - 09/13/05 04:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I haven't been able to locate that painting yet, but I would really like to because I'd like to know what you all thought about it. I saw it about 6-7 months ago on either the history channel or a national geographic ufo special. It was the one that dealed with religion and ufo's, called "UFO's and the Bible." I am not making this up though, it was discovered in a cave in Pakistan and is estimated to be 8,500 years old. It is very creepy, I mean how is a person from back then going to draw a figure that has such a striking resemblance to what so many say they have seen today? With a GUN in his hand!

Look, I have no physical "proof" of this, but I can promise you that there is life beyond Earth. Like others have said, it is just to big out there for it to be devoid of life. Even on Earth they have been finding that life can thrive in the extreme heat and cold here. I think that life is much more tenacious and widespread throughout the universe.

I myself have witnessed something that defies logic (and the laws of physics). My mother and I were at a funeral home where my dad was inside because one of his co-workers had passed. While we were waiting in the car we looked up and saw 3 spheres of light that were bright and brilliant like star light. The lights kind of moved around each other in odd patterns, the whole time its hue kept changing from a white to a pale yellow, to a greenish blue, to a reddish color. Then the balls on the left and right aligned themselves up to the center ball and they came together and formed one ball. This ball sat there for a second and then took off at incredible speeds up into space. The speed at which it left at is so insane that it is hard to explain, I know that I have never in my life seen anything move at that rate. It seemed to be pretty close to us while doing its "dance" before leaving, I'd say about 100-120 feet above us, then off and gone at the blink of an eye. I'm not sure if it was under control by any type of intelligence or not, but it seemed to be, and I know that nothing from this Earth could have done that.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4653875 - 09/13/05 05:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

and I know that nothing from this Earth could have done that.

Neither do you know anything not from Earth capable of doing that so your apparent conclusion tells us nothing.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4653890 - 09/13/05 05:38 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

While I dont claim to know anything for sure, I feel that we are the statistical probability for higher consciousness life forms.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: TheCow]
    #4653897 - 09/13/05 05:58 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Your statement makes no sense.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4653899 - 09/13/05 06:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Your statement makes no sense.



That is true.
I think in the realm of probability, there exists a probability that a universe will develop a creature capable of so called higher-consciousness. I dont think I have to back this up, as we are the example, so I would say the possiblity is quite real. I assume this probability to be decently small, and thus I think that we are the only creatures capable of higher-consciousness in the universe.


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OfflineGliders
Oh, hello!

Registered: 08/29/05
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4654019 - 09/13/05 09:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kiosk said:


I myself have witnessed something that defies logic (and the laws of physics). My mother and I were at a funeral home where my dad was inside because one of his co-workers had passed. While we were waiting in the car we looked up and saw 3 spheres of light that were bright and brilliant like star light. The lights kind of moved around each other in odd patterns, the whole time its hue kept changing from a white to a pale yellow, to a greenish blue, to a reddish color. Then the balls on the left and right aligned themselves up to the center ball and they came together and formed one ball. This ball sat there for a second and then took off at incredible speeds up into space. The speed at which it left at is so insane that it is hard to explain, I know that I have never in my life seen anything move at that rate. It seemed to be pretty close to us while doing its "dance" before leaving, I'd say about 100-120 feet above us, then off and gone at the blink of an eye. I'm not sure if it was under control by any type of intelligence or not, but it seemed to be, and I know that nothing from this Earth could have done that.




Your experience sounds much like mine, which I posted on another one of these threads about UFOs. There were three in mine also, but they were diamond-shaped instead of round, and more metallic. Their dance was a spiral, but they also came together and disappeared or shot away. Interesting. I'd sure like to know what those were.


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4654160 - 09/13/05 11:02 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
For the 100th time, UFO means UNIDENTIFIED Flying Object. The word UNIDENTIFIED means you do not know what it is. It does not mean it is an alien ship.

If I find a coin that I cannot identify, I don't assume I'm rich... I assume I have a coin whose value is currently unknown.

[sighs in frustration] :rolleyes:




I didn't say aliens were on these ships. Jeez, where's your reading comprehension fuckstick?


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InvisibleAlienZulu
abducted

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 39
Loc: standing by
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4655468 - 09/13/05 04:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: AlienZulu]
    #4655779 - 09/13/05 05:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/13/05 10:43 PM)


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4656862 - 09/13/05 10:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

all of the convincing material ive seen comes treight from nasa, wich i completely distrust, since we cant even get some clarity as to wether or not we went to the damn moon...

anyways theres these sattelite images of object making 80 degree turns
at supersonic speeds, and the footage from the 'tether incident'.
they both looked pretty convincing to me.

the thing that bothers me most about the ufo crowd are those dildo's
who come up and say they are willing to stand up in front of congress and tell people that not only did they see aliens, it is obvious how all they care bout is the weaponisation of space and bla bla...

i think the moment u pretend to know what any of it is about u completely loos all credibility...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4656984 - 09/13/05 10:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

since we cant even get some clarity as to wether or not we went to the damn moon

There is no doubt we went to the moon. Only conspiracy freaks, who by definition will never bother to research the issue, doubt it. They'll point to waving flags on the airless moon and claim it to be a breeze on a movie soundstage. They never notice that the only time the flag moves is when an astronaut is bumping the flagpole; the rest of the time the flag is stark still.

Aside from that, the astronauts left on the moon a special mirror box that will reflect a laser beam from any direction back the way it came. It's used to make very precise measurements of the moon's orbit. You could zap a laser at this instrument yourself and time the reflection to confirm that we've been there.

Also, while the moon shots were taking place in the 60s, lots of amateur radio enthusiasts from all countries around the world tracked the directional radio signals as the astronauts traveled to the moon and back. That is not fakeable.

And finally, if there were ANY evidence that the moon shots were fake, the Russians would certainly have pointed it out. They didn't.

anyways theres these sattelite images of object making 80 degree turns
at supersonic speeds, and the footage from the 'tether incident'.
they both looked pretty convincing to me.


Convincing of what? You see something you don't know what it is and rather than say you don't know what it is, you say it's an alien ship. [sigh]

Not knowing what something is means you don't know what it is, not it's an alien.

Case in point:

I recently read about some lights in the sky, as you say, in New Mexico where, like you, virtually an entire town latched onto the most implausible of all available explanations. They saw lights in the sky that "couldn't" be from Earth because there were no airports or military bases nearby, and the lights made abrupt right-angle turns.

Turns out the lights were just a town about 60 miles away on the other side of a mountain range. You see, the lights from the distant town were being refracted off a standing thermocline in the atmosphere, like a mirror. The effective angle of the mirror varied as the temperature gradient in the atmosphere moved with the wind flowing over the mountains. This gave the illusion of the abrupt right-angle turns.

Again, when you don't know what something is, it means you don't know what it is. Nothing more.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/16/05 03:03 PM)


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4657042 - 09/13/05 10:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

dude there is way more evidence and wtf am i saying, NASA has admitted faking much of the moon footage... they just didnt say why.
any reflecting surface, a deposite of some metal, a shiny rock or something else could be used as a reflector, all u need is to know where it is.

ultimatly all we have to proove it is nasa's word and nasa's equiptment.

as for those incidents i mentioned, there is no natural phenomenon that can account for a 80 degree turning of heavy objects at those speeds, nor for the acceleration there.
whatever it was it is unexplained.
and im not saying its proof, im saying thats the closest thing we have right now. pretty thin i agree...

as for the tether incident, i have no idea what to think of it,
except that place where bazillions of dollars are spent has yet again provided us with footage of a lesser quality then the zapruder film.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4657079 - 09/13/05 11:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

NASA has admitted faking much of the moon footage

Source please?

any reflecting surface, a deposite of some metal, a shiny rock or something else could be used as a reflector, all u need is to know where it is.

There is a million dollar precision optical instrument on the moon designed to reflect a laser beam back in the exact same direction from which it came. It is very difficult to ENGINEER AND MANUFACTURE such a precise instrument.

No rock or other random natural formation will reflect a laser beam back over a distance of a half million miles with so little angular deviation as to land right smack dab back at its source.

Nevermind thousands of amateur radio operators from all around the world who tracked the astronauts' radio transmissions across the sky in real time using directional antennas and the Russians who didn't say a word about the fake moon landing even though they were fiercely competing with the US to get there first.

as for those incidents i mentioned, there is no natural phenomenon that can account for a 80 degree turning

Did you not read the natural phenomenon I just described that does (and actually did) exactly that in New Mexico?

heavy objects

So now it goes from you don't know what it is to you know it's a heavy object. You weighed the UFO, eh? Geez, after all this time, UFO nuts still manage to amaze me.  :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/13/05 11:30 PM)


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Offlinekiosk
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4657935 - 09/14/05 02:40 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, you're right. I don't know that what I saw was from somewhere else, but I do know that nobody has ever explained what these are, and the only govt. explanations would probably be satellites or some other complete bullshit. I'm saying what I saw seemed to be under intelligent control and that the rate of speed it took off at was simply not feasible with Earth's technology. This leads me to only a few conclusions, either it came from another planet, dimension, or from somewhere in Earth's future. Of course I don't have physical proof of this, but I know in my heart what I witnessed was genuinely the real deal


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4658289 - 09/14/05 04:42 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

get over yourself maniac!
i never said i believed in aliens and dont fucking pretend i did
just so u can feel better about yourself by pissing on me.
i am NOT here to boost your ego!

1: we are talking about a watercompass placed mirror of wich only nasa can tell us it exists, only nasa can tell us what it does or what it looks like and only nasa can tell us wether it works or not.
if nasa tells us 2 blips on a screen are proof enuff to bomb bagdad i guess ull lock n load huh?

as for heavy objects, theyd have to be to withstand those speeds, the acompanying friction from dust etc, and impact from smaller objects
without being ripped to shreds.
not to mention the stress of an 80 degree turn at speed of over 1000kmph!
i think its safe to say these werent cardboard boxes.

my point was never that there are ufo's or whatever, my point is simply that u are basing all of your info on a source that has been known to lie under the excuse of protecting their tech.
as for my source, it was a fucking tv guide! the first time i herd it.
its commen knowledge bub.

stop putting words in my mouth just so u have an excuse to talk down to me fucker!


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4658302 - 09/14/05 04:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

This leads me to only a few conclusions, either it came from another planet, dimension, or from somewhere in Earth's future.




i kinda like the idea that they are actualy manifestation of our own conciousness.
as we explain more and more the human psyche gets an increased
desire for the unknown, the mystery and the mass conciousness projects this desire into reality in the form of things that defy all explanation and provide that x-factor, that wonder about the byond that we need so much...

the moment we know for a fact about everything that is possible, we also immediatly exclude all other things as impossible.
and i dont think humans like that idea of things being cast in stone like that because it interrupts whatever it is that drives them to have religion etc... if u know everything there is nothing left to believe in...


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4658359 - 09/14/05 05:20 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Good point, I too have alot of faith in the human mind and what it can do. Me and my friends get together sometimes and have a deck of cards, and we each try to guess what the next card pulled is. In normal sober everyday life we hardly guess the right card, but with a little help from the mush we can almost always guess it spot on, suit and number. This leads me to believe that the mushroom can unlock parts of the mind that are usually inacessible to some people. I guess when you are under the influence of certain substances you are able to use more than your average 10%.

I just still don't understand how some people can think that we are the most this universe has to offer. We as humans are such a primitive species, so violent, deceitful, naive, greedy...

There are so many technological advances that have been made that we can't even get to experience because money and power rule everything. Free energy, non-polluting transportation, not being able to indulge in natural occuring substances that make us better people. And such a fucked up Government that you never know if you can trust, always making up some bullshit story to get you to go along with their plans...

I mean, do you honestly think we as a species can survive another 20 years if things keep going on the path that they are? There are carcinogens in almost everything, the air is extremely polluted, the threat of nuclear warfare has never been higher, and there is just so much bullshit that goes on everyday...sometimes I wonder if this is Hell


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4658390 - 09/14/05 05:41 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

In normal sober everyday life we hardly guess the right card, but with a little help from the mush we can almost always guess it spot on, suit and number.
Uh huh. Almost always being about 2%?

Then you will give me 10 to 1 odds when taking the Swami "Guess the Card Challenge"?

Hmm, I wonder how many World Series of Poker Champions were tripping at the time and why you have failed to bust Las Vegas...

This leads me to believe that the mushroom can unlock parts of the mind that are usually inacessible to some people.
You believe incorrectly.

I guess when you are under the influence of certain substances you are able to use more than your average 10%.
If you were able to utilize more than "your average 10%"; you would know that the average human uses 100% of his/her brain.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4658540 - 09/14/05 07:44 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i never said i believed in aliens and dont fucking pretend i did

But you suggested that we've never been to the moon. This is an absurdity as I showed you.

just so u can feel better about yourself by pissing on me.

I'm not pissing on you to feel better. I'm pissing on you because you are embarrassing yourself with absurdities like that a rock on the moon can do what a highly polished precision optical instrument can do, because you somehow know that UNIDENTIFIED flying objects are heavy, and because you keep insisting that no natural phenomenon can appear to make abrupt changes in direction even though I just detailed for you a natural phenomena that can, and did, exactly that in New Mexico. It convinced a gaggle of people incapable of critical thought, like you, into assuming the lights were aliens for weeks until scientists demonstrated that they were not.

If you don't like being pissed on, research your topic before posting nonsense here or go post it in OTD where nobody will call you on bullshit.

watercompass placed mirror

WTF, a few minutes ago it was a rock, now it's a watercompass?

The mirror on the moon uses two precision paraboloidal surfaces. Those are curves designed to reflect the light in a very specific way. No other surface can do what that instrument does.

only nasa can tell us what it does or what it looks like and only nasa can tell us wether it works or not.

You don't need NASA for that. A high-school physics book can tell you whether it works or not too. Read the section on optics.

And if you cared about the truth rather than conspiracy theories, you could build a moderately powerful laser and detector yourself to bounce light off the instrument on the moon. Laser enthusiasts have been doing this since the 60s.

as for heavy objects

Heavy UFOs... you weighed them or are you making this up like your claim that NASA admitted faking moon landing footage? I'm still waiting for a source on that, by the way.

not to mention the stress of an 80 degree turn at speed of over 1000kmph!

So now you not only know the weight of UNIDENTIFIED objects, but you also know their speed. Did you just make this up this morning or have you had this made up fact for a while?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/14/05 08:13 AM)


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4658641 - 09/14/05 09:15 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

wtf is your problem dude?

just because u have a different oppinion isnt cause to go insult people.
didnt your mommy and daddy give you enuff attention as a child?

im simply saying there is no concrete evidence.
just cuz something shines on the moon doesent automaticly mean
we put it there.

and yes if u had studies another part of science u would know that we can not only assertain the speed of an object but also a great deal about its composition from nothing more then a piece of film, or in the case of composition a single frame can tell alot.
NASA does plenty of that themselves.

honestly dude, a machine that takes a picture at a precice interval
is capable of measureing speed, everybody knows that.

btw: im not sure what americans call it but with the watercompass
i was refering to those tools used to determine angles using water as a reference.

we are talking about a moving object with a bazillion angles on its surface that reflects so much light from the sun it actualy has an effect on the germinating of plants.
u dont think hubble could find a spot like that if it naturaly existed?
there is no concrete evidence that it was man made.
fact of the matter is there isnt even a good way to calculate the odds
of such a thing existing, and even for those we are dependant on nasa's data.

all you have is the word of nasa, and that puts u level with the ufo crowd in my book, u just choose to buy into a different BS package.

btw: its not hard to present your argument without insulting any1.
there is no reason to insult anyone yet u choose to do so anyways.
how could this be due to anything but insicurity on your part?
after all u are commenting on oppinions i never expressed and ignore the only one i did.

grow up dude.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: trick]
    #4659485 - 09/14/05 01:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

LOL, this guy presents some more good evidence and you all IGNORE IT.

IGNORANT FOOLS.

Trick, they made up their minds a long time ago.  No open mindedness at all.

Swarmi, you just saw what you wanted to see.  Thats all you will ever see :grin:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4659488 - 09/14/05 01:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

just because u have a different oppinion isnt cause to go insult people

Stop making things up like your statement that NASA admitted to faking moon shot footage, and I'll be more civil. I don't like liars.

we can not only assertain the speed of an object but also a great deal about its composition from nothing more then a piece of film

You can't determine speed unless you also have a second camera or know the distance to the object and have a known background. You can't determine mass at all from a photograph. Where are you getting this?

You keep making empty claims of UFO mass and speed. Please provide a reference for where you're getting this information. This is my third request for sources.

im simply saying there is no concrete evidence

A mirror box on the moon is concrete evidence.

Amateur radio hams all over the world tracking the source of the voice radio transmissions of the astronauts across the sky all the way to the moon and back is concrete evidence.

And finally, while not concrete, that the Russians never said a word about fake moon landings is very convincing circumstantial evidence they were real.

What more do you want? A ride to the moon?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/14/05 06:41 PM)


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4660954 - 09/14/05 05:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i agree


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4665897 - 09/15/05 05:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i never sayd we didnt go, but unless the japanese come up with a pic of tranquility base u dont have absolute proof.
how ever remotely, it is possible that we never went.

and when it comes to something as extreme as ufo's ure gonna need 'absolute' proof, nothing less will cause the concept the
to be accpeted by society to a degree where it will get attention
from the people with resources to investigate the phenomenon.

my point is that we are a long fuckingway from having anything of that nature, and i think its mostly becuase we have this preconception of them being aliens from outerspace.
it causes some areas of research to be excluded from the process...

do u now finaly understand that u are bitching at me for the exact opposite of what im actualy trying to say here???


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4665986 - 09/15/05 06:05 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

and when it comes to something as extreme as ufo's ure gonna need 'absolute' proof, nothing less will cause the concept the
to be accpeted by society to a degree where it will get attention
from the people with resources to investigate the phenomenon.


The phenomena have been investigated. In almost every case, the observation has been exposed as a hoax or has been explained (see the New Mexico event I described a few posts back).

There are a few events that have never been explained. They are interesting and could be anything, including aliens, but there is no more reason to think they are aliens than some odd convergence of natural phenomena and coincidence (like in New Mexico).

When/if someone finally comes up with REAL evidence like a bacteria without DNA or something equally irrefutable, I will be the first to jump for joy at the greatest discovery in human history. Until then all we have are a bunch of hoaxes, a bunch of explained 'sightings' and a tiny handful of weird, currently-unexplained events.

do u now finaly understand that u are bitching at me for the exact opposite of what im actualy trying to say here

Eh, the real bitching started when you claimed NASA has admitted faking moon landing footage. Why did you feel the need to make that up in defense of your position?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4666122 - 09/15/05 06:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i didnt make it up dude, its possible my tv guide was in error but i dont think so.
it had an article about some moonhoax show and in it it mentioned that nasa had admitted to faking some of the photo's, something
about protecting their tech from the russians or something...

my position is that proof is a near impossibility when it comes to ufo's. we seem to agree on that...
i merely brought up the moon landing to illustrate how hard it is to be 100% on anything, even things we take for granted.

Quote:

There are a few events that have never been explained. They are interesting and could be anything, including aliens, but there is no more reason to think they are aliens than some odd convergence of natural phenomena and coincidence (like in New Mexico).




id say the evidence at hand points toward some natural/paranormal type phenomenon.
like i said i like the conciousness manifestation idea...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4666811 - 09/15/05 09:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i didnt make it up dude, its possible my tv guide was in error

TV Guide ranks right about with the National Inquierer on accurate reporting. I assure you, NASA neither faked nor admitted faking any moon shot footage.


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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4667919 - 09/16/05 01:08 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i dont give a shit how u think it rates asshole, ure dissing material u never read!
the TV guide only mentioned it as a statistic and it was commen knowledge already.
and your a fucking retard if u believe all of those photo's.
a 4yo can tell u whats wrong with them.
it makes sense that they would have anyways, cause there is just no way u can maintain the pretence of those photos being real,
a 4yo can tell you whats wrong with them and you have obviously never looked.

why are u so fucking hellbent on a discussion about the fucking moon anyways!!!!

how many times do i have to state my intended mutherfucking point before u get it trough yout thik fucking head that im not hear for a god damn moon discussion???!!!

its obvious u never looked at the evidence so fuckoff.
start a new topic or something and stop trying to push the thread offtopic so u have an excuse to talk down to people.
your a pathetic wretch for getting your rocks off this way, and u
still cant proove we went to the moon.

stop trying to blow up a miner detail of the conversation to
feed that insatiable ego of yours, we were talking about proof, u have none. so dont try to 'win' the discussion by confusing the subject asshole!
who the fuck made this a competition anyways?

oh and if u keep up with this 'nasa would never lie to us' attitude i would ask you to wear aluminum foil so we all know who u are!


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Offlinekiosk
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4668211 - 09/16/05 02:21 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Nobody has replied to one of my original posts on here about art ranging from hundreds to thousands of years ago depicting what many people see today. Flying silver discs in the sky, not lights or something else that could be natural phenomena, but actual disc shaped objects, flying in the sky! They had to come from somewhere since virtually all civilizations either talk about or have drawn these things, and this was obviously before WE discovered flight, so where did they come from? This leaves only a few conclusions.

Also, look at all the miraculous things that have happened in pre-history and all the artificial structures created from our past such as: Stonehenge, The Sphynx, the great pyramids, The Nazca lines in Peru. These are major things which would have been extremely difficult to create without some sort of crazy tools. Say what you will, but it would be damn near impossible for even a shitload of people to lift rocks that range from 80 to 140 TONS. Even with some advanced pulley system or whatever they say was used to lift them. Coupled with the fact that the pyramid rocks are precision cut and placed so close together that the space is smaller than a pennys length. The rocks from Stonehenge were from a mountain some 15 miles away from where they are set up, and they weigh like 80 tons a piece. How is ancient man going to carry these rocks that far and place them the way they are without a crane or some other modern device? That seems like it would be an extremely important feat and that some sort of records would be kept that would show how they did it. Same thing goes for the pyramids, is there any heiroglyphics on the walls depicting how they built it? They said that it would take 100's of years for them to build it, and thats with working every day all the time, wouldn't they have recorded somewhere how they were able to do that? Couple that with the fact that there is a face on Mars with a striking resemblance to the Sphynx face and pyramids built around it. All I can say is that there have been some remarkable things in Earth's past that have happened and today's explanations for them just aren't cutting it


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4668229 - 09/16/05 02:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i agree there is alot left unexplained when it comes to the pyramids.
though i dont think how they built the pyramids is nearly as interesting as why they did it...


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4668378 - 09/16/05 03:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I agree that why the did it is VERY important, but I also think that it would be damn near impossible to build it without some VERY advanced technology that I don't think Earth's inhabitants had back then. I am really hell bent on the idea that visitors from beyond created these structures, since there are almost identical structures on Mars. My personal opinion is that they were put here as a "stamp" marking that there race has been here, sort of like we did with our flag on the moon. But hey I could be wrong


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4668427 - 09/16/05 03:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Alright back to my original point, UFO's in early art, check this website for yourself and see what I have been talking about. http://www.ufoartwork.com/


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4668468 - 09/16/05 03:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kiosk said:
I agree that why the did it is VERY important, but I also think that it would be damn near impossible to build it without some VERY advanced technology that I don't think Earth's inhabitants had back then. I am really hell bent on the idea that visitors from beyond created these structures, since there are almost identical structures on Mars. My personal opinion is that they were put here as a "stamp" marking that there race has been here, sort of like we did with our flag on the moon. But hey I could be wrong



Ha, clearly you are hell bent on believing this. Whats the big deal about the pyramids. The hard part would be transporting stones, but other then that, theres no extremely great engineering marvel they had to overcome. Impressive yes, but theres absolutely no need for aliens to be involved. I watched a Discovery channel thing on the pyramids once, explaining how they could have done it using tools available to them. But even still, the pyramids dont strike me as absurdly impressive. If we found an Eiffel Tower or something from a few thousand years ago, then Id find that impressive.
And explain what you mean by identical structures on mars.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: TheCow]
    #4668624 - 09/16/05 05:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i saw that discovery thing too, as i recell the team failed, but concluded that it could be done with more manpower etc...

getting a block from one place to another is one thing, but once the pyramid is half done itll also need to go up...
in the thing i saw they made use of a ramp for this, but the ramp itself has more stone in it then the pyramid itself, and in the case of the big one at gizeh id have to wonder where the stone went...

anyways we still have to account for how they got this much manpower now that the slave theory is out...

anyways the mars connection gets slightly wierder when u find that tht area of mars is mirrored in the landscape of the us.
the pyramids form a pattern along with some other features on mars
wich have been duplicated on earth.
the pentagon is part of the earth mirror and there is even a hill, Avary hill or something like that, that is the spitting image of the corresponding feature on mars.

im not sure why a government would want to build mirrors of mars landscape on earth but it suggest they know something we dont...


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: TheCow]
    #4668634 - 09/16/05 05:17 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well here are some Pyramid facts for you that reiterate what I'm saying:
It is thirty times larger than the Empire State Building, the Pyramid's features are so large they can be seen from the Moon.
Its base covers 13.6 acres (equal to seven midtown Manhatten city blocks), each side being greater than five acres in area.
A highway lane eight feet wide and four inches thick could be built from San Francisco to New York and put inside the Great Pyramid.
Only a solid stone mountain could endure the Pyramid's immense weight. And indeed, a flat solid granite mountain happens to be located just beneath the surface of the ground directly under the Pyramid.
It is built to face true North.
The Pyramid is located at the exact center of the Earth's land mass. That is, its East-West axis corresponds to the longest land parallel across the Earth, passing through Africa, Asia, and America. Similarly, the longest land meridian on Earth, through Asia, Africa, Europa, and Antarctica, also passes right through the Pyramid. Since the Earth has enough land area to provide 3 billion possible building sites for the Pyramid, the odds of it's having been built where it is are 1 in 3 billion.
Like 20th century bridge designs, the Pyramid's cornerstones have balls and sockets built into them. Several football fields long, the Pyramid is subject to expansion and contraction movements from heat and cold, as well as earthquakes, settling, and other such phenomena. After 4,600 years it's structure would have been significantly damaged without such construction.
While the bulk of the Pyramid's core was constructed of 4,000- to 40,000-pound blocks of soft limestone, the outer layer of the Pyramid was made of a beautifully bright, protective layer of polished stone. These outer "casing stones" are missing today because about 600 years ago they were stolen by Arabs, (This accounts for the very worn appearance of the Pyramid today, since the inner limestone blocks are not immune to attack by the elements-wind, rain, and sandstrom.) This protective covering was made up of 100-inch-thick, 20-ton block of hard, white limestone, similar to marble but superior in hardness and in durability against the elements.
The casing stones, 144,000 in all, were so brilliant that they could literally be seen from the mountains of Israel hundreds of miles away. On bright mornings and late afternoons, sunlight reflected by this vast mirrored surface of 5-1/4 acres distinguished the Pyramid as being visible from the moon.
(Note: For those interested in possible symbolic significance, in Bible prophecy 144,000 is the number of people-12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel-who are supposed to evangelize the world at the endtime.)
The people of the area had viewed the Pyramid and its polished stones with awe for centuries. But when a 13th century earthquake loosened some of these casing stones, the Arabs recognized a great quarry of precut stones that could be used to finish off palaces and mosques. For instance, the casing stones were used to rebuild the new city of El Kaherah plus Cairo mosques and palaces, including the Mosque of Sultan Hasan.
Amazingly, the outside surface stones are cut within 0.01 (1/100th) inch of perfectly straight and at nearly perfect right angles for all six sides. And they were placed together with an intentional gap between them of 0.02 inch. Modern technology cannot place such 20-ton stones with greater accuracy than those in the Pyramid.
Even more amazing is that the 0.02-inch gap was designed to allow space for glue to seal and hold the stones together. A white cement that connected the casing stones and made them watertight is still intact and stronger than the blocks that it joins.
Let's pause from our tour for a moment's rest and reflection. Whoever built the Pyramid used a technologly that we still do not possess today to cut, move, and cement stones. Whoever built it also had some knowledge of the Earth, because it was built in the right spot-one of the few places that would support such a great weight. The builder also knew where the greatest land mass of the Earth was in both the North-South and East-West directions.
The Great Pyramid is one of the most comprehensively surveyed buildings in the World. Scientists over the centuries have taken thousands of measurements in their quest to find out more about its mysteries.
Among those intrigued by the incredible accuracy of the Pyramid's construction was the great scientist and mathematician Sir Isaac Newton. Attemping to formulate his famous law of gravity, Newton needed to know the diameter of the Earth. However, in the 1600's no measurement was accurate enough, especially since Newton theorized that the Earth's spin would cause an equatorial bulge. Having heard legends claiming that knowledge of the Earth, the past, and the future were contained in the Pyramid, Newton set out to investigate.

After studying the detailed measurements made by the investigators before him, Newton recognized that many key measurements would be in round numbers if the standard unit of measure was just 0.001 (1/1,000) inch larger than the British inch-which just happens to be the Sacred Jewish Inch. (The Sacred Jewish Inch, 1/25 of a cubit, equals 1.00106 British inches.) This discovery allowed the secrets of the Pyramid to be unlocked and revealed unmistakable and mathematical relationships. For instance:

We know from geometry that there is a universal relationship between the diameter of a circle and its circumference. Consider this: The height of the Pyramid's apex is 5,812.98 inches, and each side is 9,131 inches from corner to corner (in a straight line). If the circumference of the Pyramid is divided by twice its height (the diameter of a circle is twice the radius), the result is 3.14159, which just happens to be pi. Incredibly, this calculation is accurate to six digits. So the Pyramid is a square circle, and thus pi was designed into it 4,600 years ago. Pi is demonstrated many times throughout the Pyramid.

Other numbers are also repeated throughout. Each of the Pyramids four walls, when measured as a straight line, are 9,131 inches, for a total of 36,524 inches. At first glance, this number may not seem significant, but move the decimal point over and you get 365.24. Modern science has shown us that the exact length of the solar year is 365.24 days.
All of the evidence in the Great Pyramid shows that 4,600 years ago somebody knew a great deal about the Earth. But it gets better, much better:
The average height of land above sea level (Miami being low and the Himalayas being high), as can be measured only by modern-day satellites and computers, happens to be 5,449 inches. That is the exact height of the Pyramid.

All four sides of the Pyramid are very slightly and evenly bowed in, or concave. This effect, which cannot be detected by looking at the Pyramid from the ground, was discovered around 1940 by a pilot taking aerial photos to check certain measurements. As measured by today's laser instruments, all of these perfectly cut and intentionally bowed stone blocks duplicate exactly the curvature of the earth. The radius of this bow is equal to the radius of the Earth. This radius of curvature is what Newton had long been seeking.
Clearly, whoever built the Pyramid had access to information beyond that which earthlings possessed at the time, at least earthlings as we know them. Now, one can argue that we were visited by scientifically advanced beings from outer space who taught us their technology. That is possible from the evidence presented, perhaps even likely. If so, these advanced beings had the paramount goal of leaving behind a message that would endure for eons.

Suppose these beings decided to leave a message. The message would have to be universal yet simple. It would have to survive the centuries and be understandable by all the Earth's inhabitants despite language and cultural differences. The message would have to be understood by many languages that would not come into existence for centuries after the message was written.

So far the message indicates that whoever built the Pyramid knew the Earth well: the length of the year, the radius of curvature, the standard measurement techniques, the average height of the continents, and the center of the land mass. They were able to consruct something that we still cannot construct today, and they were able to tie all these things together in this single structure. Were they extraterrestrial, or perhaps even supernatural? The answer is not yet clear. However, thus far we have examined only the outside of the Pyramid.

Take your time and read through this, it is very interesting. Clearly you will see that this is much more significant than an Eiffel tower from back then

Information was taken from http://www.europa.com/~edge/pyramid.html


Regarding similar structures on Mars:

http://fusionanomaly.net/cydonia.jpg

Here is a picture showing an aerial view of the Cydonia region of Mars, notice the face and the pyramids also. What is interesting is that NASA gave a "closer" view of the face which made it look nothing at all like a face, this is from a 1988 mission (The original actual face looking one is from the Viking mission in 1977) the question is should NASA be trusted on this one. Here is a link for the closer image http://www.timecrystal.com/Mars/Cydonia/Cydonia_Figure_04d.JPG

There are some better pictures out there


Edited by kiosk (09/16/05 05:27 AM)


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: trick]
    #4668686 - 09/16/05 06:35 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

trick said:
I'm pretty sure you all know about the UFOs over washington D.C.



It's very well documented.





this photo is very obviously interior office lighting reflected on a pane of glass with the capitol building in the background


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4668732 - 09/16/05 07:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

ure dissing material u never read!
the TV guide only mentioned it as a statistic and it was commen knowledge already.


Liar.

I don't believe you ever read it either. You are making things up to back your untenable position. If you say otherwise, please provide a link to where NASA admitted faking moon landing footage.  This is my fourth request.

Note to audience: I now invoke Icelander's three-request rule.  :smirk:

push the thread offtopic

Eh? You brought up the 'fake' moon shots.


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4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/16/05 09:28 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4668733 - 09/16/05 07:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Nobody has replied to one of my original posts on here about art ranging from hundreds to thousands of years ago depicting what many people see today.

I replied and you dismissed my reply.

No archaeologist says there's anything unusual about any of those images. The misrepresentations on various web sites are by UFO nuts intentionally lying (see my links above) or misinterpreting the images out of ignorance of archeology.

Why do you look to UFO nut sites instead of to university archeology departments to find the origins of cave paintings?

Say what you will, but it would be damn near impossible for even a shitload of people to lift rocks that range from 80 to 140 TONS.

Several groups of people have independently demonstrated that this can be done using only the natural resources available at the time to construct large levered lifting devices and about 100 people pulling on ropes.

As for precision, Issac Newton, the inventor of the reflecting telescope, hand-ground a parabola into his telescope's objective mirror accurate to within a few wavelengths of light. This is about 100,000 times more precise than anything in any pyramid, and he did it 300 years ago.


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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/16/05 09:49 PM)


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4668853 - 09/16/05 10:20 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

how the fuck am i gonna post a link to a tv guide article u moron??

i only brought them up to illustratee a point mutherfucker.
a point that sees to elude u for some time now.
a point that has nothing to do with the fucking moon landing.

read some fucking books and lern how to distinguish between the point, the argument and the illustration of the argument!

everyone in this topic but you has moved on, were talking about pyramids now, and the topic never was the damn moonlanding.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4668983 - 09/16/05 11:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Personal attacks.The last defense of the total loser.  :thumbdown:


Edited by Icelander (09/16/05 11:46 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4669049 - 09/16/05 11:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The "correct" way for a personal attack is to follow the jab with a smiley face. That way you get to take your shot while maintaining the appearance as a friendly guy to the public as in the example below:

Ya I'm sorry Swami, You don't seem to think.  :grin:


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4669067 - 09/16/05 12:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vertigo6911 said:
how the fuck am i gonna post a link to a tv guide article u moron??



1. No flaming
2. He didn't ask for a link to TV Guide. He asked for a link showing where NASA admitted to the moon landings being faked.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Silversoul]
    #4669098 - 09/16/05 12:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This thread makes me giggle.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4669165 - 09/16/05 12:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
The "correct" way for a personal attack is to follow the jab with a smiley face. That way you get to take your shot while maintaining the appearance as a friendly guy to the public as in the example below:

Ya I'm sorry Swami, You don't seem to think.  :grin:




Exactally :thumbup: Lets remember folks we are all Dog here. So lets keep cool even when we disagree. :heart: :mushroom2:


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Icelander]
    #4669729 - 09/16/05 02:46 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Only a sith lord deals in absolutes :jedi:


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4669884 - 09/16/05 03:19 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

S&P Forum Rules said:
If you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling them "stupid" or an "idiot"..etc...Then don't bother posting here.




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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4669891 - 09/16/05 03:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vertigo6911 said:
read some fucking books and lern




Well, that about says it all....!  :thumbup:


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #4669901 - 09/16/05 03:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:rofl2:

:handth:


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4670031 - 09/16/05 03:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

oh gtf outta here, like he hasnt been calling me stupid since his first damn post direted at me.
this dude has been stressing a totaly irrelevant point just to get a chance to talk down to me, and i get pissed on for using some naughty words?

so u can say anything u want, insult any1 u want to no end as long as u hide behind pc language and smileys? c'mon guys u ougta know better...


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4670095 - 09/16/05 03:59 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I don't see where he called you stupid. Maybe he made you look stupid, but I wouldn't blame that entirely on him.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4670140 - 09/16/05 04:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:rolleyes:

Diploid (not Swami, who you have directed most of your replies to) was attacking your STATEMENTS, not you.

Your responses were all about attacking him as a person.  This is called FLAMING, not debating.

If you are incapable of disputing IDEAS, then move on, please.

:thumbdown:


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Veritas]
    #4670280 - 09/16/05 04:40 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

its been a wile since weve discussed any of the subject matter at all!
i just said something in order to illustrate a point and he talks down to me as if it was a point in itself, wich as ive said more ten 10 times by now, it aint.
why the fuck does he need to be harassing me about being inaccurate
about something that was never realy releveant, and only served to illustrate a point that has come and gone at the start of page 2 of this thing?

why are we still talking about his bullshit as if it means anything?
why dont u guys just start your own damn moonhoax debunk topic and leave me the fuck alone??!!
i was just illustrating how little proof we have for alot of the things we take for granted god dammit!

diploid didnt only diss me and prettymuch everyone who likes to make up his/her own mind about this moon thing, but he totaly hijacked the god damn topic (can i say god damn when im talking about a topic or do i have to worry about hurting its feeling too?) just to piss on me for something, and let me just repeae this yet again, as it doesent seem to sink in ( :foreheadslap: :crankey: :cuckoo: :flipthebird:, is that a politicly correct and localy acceptable way to say fuck you on this board?) is in no way crucial or even relevant to the matter at hand, proof of UFO phenomenon.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4670306 - 09/16/05 04:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vertigo6911 said:
:bitch:



You made a claim, he asked you to back it up, you didn't, and it was bullshit to begin with.  Get over it.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: kiosk]
    #4670622 - 09/16/05 06:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure how artwork prooves anything.

I can show you films dating from as far back as the 1940's depicting alien attacks...

Does that mean that aliens were visiting us in the 40's, or that people made movies about it?

A lot of the things in the ancient artwork only look like flying saucers through the modern eye. Some of them seem more like say, the depiction of meteors, mixed with mythical explanations that they would have come up with at the time.

And as for the Disclosure Project, I've noticed that most of the people telling me about this thing haven't even read into it.

They all talk about how high up government officials have proof of UFOs and are coming forth. But if you actually read through the list of people, the higher up government officials only go so far as to say "I think more investigation should be done". It's only lowly peons who claim to have evidence, or claim to have seen something big.


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Phluck]
    #4671797 - 09/17/05 12:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No you get over yourself mutherfuckers, im not here to cater to your god damn ego!

WTF is next?? your gonna chastise me for not naming the correct smurf??

how is it i gotta tiptoe trough the tulips for u assholes?
just who the hell do u think you are anyways?


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4672295 - 09/17/05 02:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vertigo6911 said:
No you get over yourself mutherfuckers, im not here to cater to your god damn ego!

WTF is next?? your gonna chastise me for not naming the correct smurf??

how is it i gotta tiptoe trough the tulips for u assholes?
just who the hell do u think you are anyways?



We are people who demand reason rather than non-sensical rhetoric.


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4672544 - 09/17/05 02:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

ok, its official.
u guys are either out to piss me off or severely retarded,
cause there is no way you wouldent get by now that i was just illustrating a point.

i made it perfectly clear that i did read it, that it was in a TV magazine, and that i made no assumptions on its accuracy.
i merely brought it up to make the point that 100% proof is a hard thing to come by.

how fucking hard is that to get?

i could explain it yet again, but as im getting tired of this bullshit
why dont u fucking awnser me some questions?

what is it exactly u are accusing me of?
and wtf makes u think u have the right to accuse me of anything?
and wtf is so god damn important that u feel the need to hijack the damn topic to bitch at me?

Quote:

We are people who demand reason rather than non-sensical rhetoric.



you demand? maybe if u didnt puke it out in the same god damn sentence i might consider taking you seriously...

wtf is wrong with you people?


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4672591 - 09/17/05 03:09 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Vertigo6911 said:
wtf is wrong with you people?




We do drugs.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4673001 - 09/17/05 05:12 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

ahh that kind of an excuse only holds up in court and... (lol)

seriously, i dont mean to diss anyone as such, im just getting very tired of all these unimportant bullshit discussions.

it was just getting interesting with the pyramids n all...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4673326 - 09/17/05 10:32 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

seriously, i dont mean to diss anyone as such




WTF do you call, calling someone a moron? The reason we "hijacked" this thread is because our beloved Mods are completely incapable of doing the job they volunteered for. :thumbdown: :frown:


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4681969 - 09/19/05 03:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Its a method of argueing.

Pick on a minor technicality and it can make others re-asses your legitamacy.

I know where your coming from - but these people have made up their minds. That is why they allow the smallest technicalites to sustain their view rather than look at the big picture - the weight of evidence (eye witness) throughout time and culture. This is why it 'requires further study' and not the mockery of these people who wish to sustain their ego and mental security.

I agree big tme about the sugar coating of insults!


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Phluck]
    #4682001 - 09/19/05 03:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
It's only lowly peons who claim to have evidence, or claim to have seen something big.




:handth:        :whatever:

Yes and I am sure that children, who have drawn the same disc shaped, light covered craft are all lowly persons trying to get big.

Yep there you have it folks, 8 year olds are now trying to get attention by claiming they've seen UFO's.  Dam we should of known, clever little money grabbing bastards! :thumbdown:


So out of the millions of witnesses, Phluck believes that not one of them could possibly be telling an honest story?

To me, this is the big delusion.  Not the questioning of what these craft are.

In fact, wether or not they are real is not even worth debating any more.  Its what are they and why are they here, now.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4682043 - 09/19/05 03:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, and i am just the opposite i guess.
i hate to sugercoat anything, u wont piss me off without knowing about it lol...

anyways lets start over:

i think the odds of getting concrete evidence that will have the effect that concrete evidence should is virtualy zip.
even if we do get a good video of a live alien people just wouldnt accept it as the truth.
in the best case scenario (in favor of aliens) there would be a
collective form of the usual phases people go trough after hearing traumatic news, starting with denial then anger etc etc.
i dont remember the rest but u get what i mean.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4682053 - 09/19/05 03:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

In fact, wether or not they are real is not even worth debating any more. Its what are they and why are they here, now.



here here!


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4682237 - 09/19/05 03:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, the mexican military recorded discs on thermal imaging camera's.

The story was all over the Internet but I'm sure these guys will deny existance until they are presented a link (yet they won't look for it).

And after that they will come up with a good reason why they believe it to be lies (other than maintainng their ego - which is what they are really doing).


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4682247 - 09/19/05 04:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
The story was all over the Internet but I'm sure these guys will deny existance until they are presented a link (yet they won't look for it).



I refuse to look for evidence that someone else claims, as the burden of proof is on the claimant. You claim there is evidence for something, show it to me. Don't waste my time by making me look all over the internet for evidence of something you claim to exist. That's your job. You make a claim, back it up.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Silversoul]
    #4682296 - 09/19/05 04:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

No, All I ever claim is stay open minded.

It is you who has requested the evidence so the burden is with yourself - should you choose to analyse unbiasedly.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Silversoul]
    #4682308 - 09/19/05 04:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

My attempts to show people reality have failed.

People believe what they want to believe and even worse, people do not want to change their current formulated beliefs - this is something you guys have taught me.

All I say is there are miilions of eye witness reports - this is a weight of evidence. This suggests something is happening and it should be analysed further - not stigmatised by a fearful society.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4682332 - 09/19/05 04:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
It is you who has requested the evidence so the burden is with yourself - should you choose to analyse unbiasedly.



Bullshit. You're the one who has claimed to have evidence, and I have merely requested to see it. The faulty logic through which you came to this conclusion tells me a great deal about how much credibility you have in analyzing this evidence. This is why I ask for sources, since I can look at the evidence you have seen and analyzing it logically, rather than trust the word of someone who makes such blatant logical fallacies as the one quoted above.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4682352 - 09/19/05 04:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danoEoboy said:
My attempts to show people reality have failed.



What attempts? All you've done is spout bullshit about how close-minded we all are and how we need to look for evidence ourselves, rather than taking the logical step of showing us the evidence you have seen.

Quote:

People believe what they want to believe and even worse, people do not want to change their current formulated beliefs - this is something you guys have taught me.



Whatever you say, Mr. Potcallingthekettleblack.

Quote:

All I say is there are miilions of eye witness reports - this is a weight of evidence. This suggests something is happening and it should be analysed further - not stigmatised by a fearful society.



It has been analyzed by many experts. Most have been shown to be attributable to natural phenomena. Some have been shown to be frauds. An extremely tiny percentage remain unexplained. The logical step for these rare cases is to continue investigating them, and not to jump to any conclusions, such as extraterrestrial visitation.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Silversoul]
    #4682419 - 09/19/05 04:45 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Fine choose ad hom and not to analyse unbiasedly - good bye.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Silversoul]
    #4682431 - 09/19/05 04:47 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

You can't see the evidence I have seen - I told you.

At least until they invent a memory transmitter - then I'd love to see you come up for an explaination for what I have seen.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Silversoul]
    #4682451 - 09/19/05 04:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

experts - yes experts have it all from reasons to invade Iraq and kill its people too why the Earth is flat and other predominant beliefs that can be shown, in time, to be wrong.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4693145 - 09/22/05 01:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What you actually experienced was a waking hollucination within the sober mind. It happens...


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: hot48yearolds]
    #4694900 - 09/22/05 01:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Whats the odds that two friends experienced the exact same 'waking hallucination' as you say it.

Besides we were playing football so theres no doubt in my mind that we were on the ball. :grin:


Its far more likely to be E.T than anything else.  Go ahead yeah just a balloon, just mass hallucination, just a million witnesses lying - yeah fuckin right, its obviously the thing that no ego wants to admit A SUPERIOR RACE, be afraid, be very afraid - people like security, they like to feel secure even though you could die at any moment for any reason.

Look at this world look at how life works, I mean from a 3rd person perspective not biased with your beliefs of creation or whatever.  Of course theres life out there and of course we are not the most intelligent species.  Of course they can come here because there will be some that have discovered space travel, we are close ourselves!  Space is just the next ocean we must learn to cross.  What are the silver discs with light and sound that people have seen close-up?

They have been seen by every culture and every age of man, unlike myths which can vary so much.

People see et as a threat thus its easier to say, we don't know what it is, so we don't want to know... :eek:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4694941 - 09/22/05 01:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the Earth is flat and other predominant beliefs that can be shown, in time, to be wrong

What you're not getting is that this is how science is SUPPOSED to work. Science makes theories based on the available information.

When the net sum of available information about the shape of the Earth was what we could see, the theory was that the Earth was flat. This was, at the time, a good theory because it explained all the observations.

This theory, like every good theory, made predictions. One prediction was that if the Earth was flat, then two poles stuck vertically into the ground at two distant locations would each cast the same length shadow at the same time of day.

This experiment was actually done and it was found that the two poles cast different length shadows. The only explanation for this experimental result was that the Earth was not flat. This contradicted the best then-available theory.

So, as required by the Scientific Method, the theory was discarded in favor of a new theory that explained all the original observations AND the new discoveries; that is, the Earth is round and so big as to appear flat.

Continue this cycle of theory, experiment to support/refute the theory, adjust the theory in light of new knowledge, and repeat.

Science was doing exactly what it should when it went from flat Earth to round Earth. If evidence in the future is found to support a square Earth, then science will abandon the outdated round Earth theory in favor of the better square Earth theory. This is the Scientific Method.

Deriding science because it self-adjusts in the light of new evidence is like complaining that your car goes faster when you step on the gas.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/22/05 09:44 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4695055 - 09/22/05 02:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Its far more likely to be E.T than anything else.

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the vast majority of UFO observations being hoaxes or explained and only a tiny few unexplained.

I'd agree with you if even one out of all the people who claim to have been abducted and had various orifices probed came back with an alien bacteria, fiber, or other hard evidence.

its obviously the thing that no ego wants to admit A SUPERIOR RACE

There you go again harping on something that has no bearing whatever on whether or not we're being visited by aliens.

I have no problem admitting that there are creatures in the universe with far more advanced technology than we have. I am all but certain that there are.

Read: http: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4362615/an//page/0/vc/1

But if these hyper-advanced creatures exist, they would hardly be interested in this backward little planet that can barely make it to its moon and back.

Why would such an advanced race be interested in us? And even if they were interested in us, why do they hide? This makes no sense.

You should stop pointing out the emotional state of the skeptics and start giving us logical answers to the questions we've been posing. My state of mind, my disbelief, my fear, my <fill in the blank> has NOTHING to do with the logic of the arguments we're discussing.

You cannot support your case by telling me that my pants are ugly. You support your case by answering the questions I pose with explanations that makes sense. You support your case by providing hard evidence; saying that you see them every night is not hard evidence in the same way that my little nephew telling me he once saw the Tooth Fairy is not hard evidence. Maybe he really did see her, but with only his story to go by, I tend to doubt it.

They have been seen by every culture and every age of man, unlike myths which can vary so much

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about in the previous paragraph. You say every culture has seen these things, but you don't provide a link to where anthropologists or archaeologists show evidence of this statement.

You provide links to web sites that take a large ancient Egyptian painting, excerpt one 10cm x 10cm area that looks like an ET with big buggy eyes and a phaser gun, and then say SEE, IT'S ET.

When an archaeologist critiques the web site, his first observation is that ET is facing you in the painting while Egyptian paintings exhibit people facing sideways to you. He then goes on to zoom out and show the entire painting (which the UFO proponents' web site never shows for reasons of deceit) and it becomes obvious that the ET with buggy eyes is actually just the legs of a large pot on a stand.

All of the links you've provided so far are of this caliber.

If you provided links to bona-fide anthropology web sites supporting your claim that "[UFOs] have been seen by every culture and every age of man", then skeptics like me will pay attention.

Until you do that, your claims fall into the same category as my nephew's and this has nothing to do with my emotional state.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/22/05 11:27 PM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4695105 - 09/22/05 02:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
When the net sum of available information about the shape of the Earth was what we could see, the theory was that the Earth was flat. This was, at the time, a good theory because it explained all the observations.





Therefore we must never make the mistake of assuming that contemporary science represents absolute truth, because science by definition can be nothing more then theorizing based on a limited number of observations.

Similarly "logic" itself must be assumed to be a working methodology, but cannot be viewed as a correct road to absolute truth.

At the moment, just like the Flat Earth not long ago, "logic" serves us well. In the future it may however need to be discarded in favor of a methodology which is closer to the "truth" as we understand it then.
Perhaps, after all, the universe shaped itself to meet the logic we applied to it, and will that effect only take us so far.

All we have is assumptions, and the degree of respect we give to people of differing opinions.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Asante]
    #4695158 - 09/22/05 02:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Therefore we must never make the mistake of assuming that contemporary science represents absolute truth, because science by definition can be nothing more then theorizing based on a limited number of observations.

Of course. But sometimes the quantity of observations is so great that a theory is considered (almost) fact. For example, the incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki makes it EXTREMELY likely that atoms exist, even though they are theoretical objects that have never been seen.

Given the volumes of evidence accumulating for over a century that supports the Atomic Theory, anyone proposing that atoms don't exist will not be taken seriously unless they can produce some very persuasive evidence.

This goes for alien visitation. Since virtually every observation has been exposed as a hoax or explained as a natural or human-made phenomenon, for an alien visitation proponent to be taken seriously, they will have to come up with some serious evidence, and stories don't rise to that level.

All we have is assumptions

We have a lot more than assumptions. We have evidence and sound, reasonable conclusions (pending new discoveries) that make sense in light of the evidence.

and the degree of respect we give to people of differing opinions

While I agree that everyone's opinions should be respected, this has nothing to do with the soundness of someone's reasoning or logic. If someone I respect says the Earth is flat, I will clobber them with a pile of logic and sound reasoning that shows their statement to be absurd.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4695277 - 09/22/05 03:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:


This goes for alien visitation. Since virtually every observation has been exposed as a hoax or explained as a natural or human-made phenomenon





Proof? Links? Data? Evidence? Please. Thanks.
My data suggests a very different explanation. Thousands upon thousands of observations remain 'unsolved and unexplained'. That's a far cry from virtually every observation exposed as a hoax
And what about the Brazilian government, Russian government, and several others.. who have openly admitted to having many encounters with flying crafts of amazing flight capabilities and 'unknown origins'.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4695378 - 09/22/05 03:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

For example, the incineration of Hiroshima and Nagasaki makes it EXTREMELY likely that atoms exist




No! That's the thing: perhaps the universe formed itself to meet the expected results. Or, alternatively: atoms were proposed to be the nature of matter based on observations. This helps us predict stuff that happens to come true.

"if we shoot unidentified energyform *neutron* into a large enough pile of the unidentified energyform we call *Uranium 235* we get a surge of the former energy as well as the unidentified energy we call Photons and the thingie we call atom multiplies by two.

Perhaps Atoms are tiny Boddhisatvas who, when offered the Holy Blessing, burst radiantly into a gush of enlightenment.
Perhaps the energy of the "atomic" bomb does not come from fission but rather is it caused because one "atom" is turned into another and in doing so a second one is pulled out of another dimension.
The "atomic" bomb then is a migration of an energy from one dimension into the other, not fission of thought-up "atoms".

Our reality might be entirely hallucinatory. It's not even sure there is a "you" to predict something.

It may be nothing we are connected to has any bearing in a deeper "Ultimate Reality". Ask Stephen Hawking. Or rather, ask yourself if you're perfectly honest.

Quote:

All we have is assumptions

We have a lot more than assumptions. We have evidence and sound, reasonable conclusions (pending new discoveries) that make sense in light of the evidence.




Sound, reasonable assumptions you mean. After all the Flat Earth was a sound, reasonable conclusion back in the day. We can't *conclude* anything because we are not at it's conclusion. As long as you're traveling TO Egypt, you're not IN Egypt.
Ask the pioneers of any branch of science and they will thell you we're not nearly there yet.

Quote:

I will clobber them with a pile of logic and sound reasoning that shows their statement to be absurd.




I believe you will clobber them mercilessly with Logic, but perhaps Logic itself is flawed. Logic may be a camel that will only take us so far before it suddenly drops dead and leaves us in the midst of the desert. Then what?

All this clobbering with contemporary logic might in 100 years be seen as the persecution of the Higher Level of Understanding which came into being in the early 21th century.

Perhaps you have an error in thought methodology (this being Logic) which you repeat to the people around you over and over. That does not make it true, unless that logic fails too :crazy2:

Accept the small but real possibility that you are wrong in everything you think the truth is.

Perhaps the Universe is what you sincerely believe it to be. That would mean spacetravel isn't limited by the speed of light but by the narrowmindedness of scientists, and once freed of the burden of E = MC2 the Universe with all its distant galaxies will open itself up for our exploration.
That certainly defies logic.
Or does it?


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Edited by Asante (09/22/05 03:42 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Shroomism]
    #4695640 - 09/22/05 04:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
This goes for alien visitation. Since virtually every observation has been exposed as a hoax or explained as a natural or human-made phenomenon




Proof? Links? Data? Evidence? Please. Thanks.

Alright:

http://www.bluebookarchive.org

Project Blue Book investigated nearly 13,000 UFO reports. All but six percent were found to be birds, airplanes, balloons, and other man-made things, natural phenomena like the New Mexico phenomenon I detailed a few posts ago, and a bunch of hoaxes.

who have openly admitted to having many encounters with flying crafts of amazing flight capabilities and 'unknown origins

A thing of 'unknown origins' is of unknown origins; it is not ET. Why must you insist on jumping to this conclusion over and over again when the only justified conclusion is that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS?

Thousands upon thousands of observations remain 'unsolved and unexplained'

Now it's your turn. Sources to thousands and thousands of "unsolved and unexplained" observations, please? And a link to some guy's web site doesn't count. In order for a case to be 'unsolved and unexplained' in this context means that it was investigated by qualified investigators and they were unable to explain it, not that some guy shot a few pics and doesn't know what it is.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4695656 - 09/22/05 04:50 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

>>>Science makes theories based on the available information.

Which is exactly what I have done. I know the discs are real, me and 2 friends saw one close-up. I realised I wasn't the only one. People of every age and culture have seen the same circular, light covered discs and some people have even met the occupants (usually against their will which is understandable).

The fact that you haven't seen one up-close would make your science naturally different to mine. This I accept. I just refuse to withhold or lie so that I fit better into society.

>>>harping on something that has no bearing whatever on whether or not we're being visited by aliens

You obviously don't understand the psycology involved here then.

Fear is the most predominant factor that keeps this a secret. The government knows that the 'sheep' of society is not ready to hear the truth (think about it religion everything).

Equally the individual person would much rather believe that they don't exist because they are a threat to ones safety. If they live up to their reports then the military can't even stop one from getting you if it wants to. Who wants to goto bed at night KNOWING they could easily be abducted???

I sure as hell don't but I can't deny what I've seen.

>>>I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the vast majority of UFO observations being hoaxes or explained and only a tiny few unexplained.


Please explain Travis Walton, Barney and Betty Hill incidents then...


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4695682 - 09/22/05 04:56 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thats not an independant enquiry, blue book is a government project.

The government would blatently be biased either way.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Asante]
    #4695688 - 09/22/05 04:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps Atoms are tiny Boddhisatvas

You can make up anything you like. The available evidence will still show you to be wrong, and since the available evidence is all we have to base our belief of how the universe works on (unless you prefer to use fantasy) then you have to conclude that, v-e-r-y likely, atoms are not Boddhisatvas.

Serious question: If physicists used the Atoms are tiny Boddhisatvas theory, do you believe the atomic bombs the US dropped on Japan would have worked?

perhaps the universe formed itself to meet the expected results

While this is possible, it is not reasonable to come to this conclusion. Doing so is like believing that rain occurs when sweating albatrosses fly overhead and not when water condenses. It's possible, but it's absurd to believe that.

What if I told you there's a spaghetti monster in your closet and he's getting ready to attack you. This is possible, but no reasonable person will so much as turn around to look.

You're arguing that somehow the Atomic Theory is totally wrong, but this makes as much sense as saying that the Condensed Water Rain Theory is totally wrong and rain really is the result of sweaty albatrosses, we just don't know it.

Geez... :shake:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/22/05 10:04 PM)


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4695690 - 09/22/05 04:57 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Winston Churchill famously stated in a letter that they are real and he wants to know what they are.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4695726 - 09/22/05 05:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thats not an independant enquiry, blue book is a government project

The government would blatently be biased either way.


There you go again attacking the source of the evidence rather than refuting the evidence. This is par for the course on the Shroomery and is no better than an ad hominem.

What if I stipulate that the government is a nasty, biased, lying bunch of jerks? Granted, they are. I agree.

That has nothing to do with the validity of the evidence presented by PBB.

Do you see why you have no credibility? If you cared about the truth, you would show me why PBB's data is invalid rather than call them names. You are unable to do this and so, in frustration, take recourse in calling them names and assume that those names somehow make their data invalid.

They don't and the data will stand as valid until and unless you refute it. Calling it 'blatently biased' without backing up that claim does nothing for your argument.

And by the way, I'm still waiting for sources to "thousands and thousands of unsolved and unexplained observations". This is my second request.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/22/05 05:27 PM)


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4695733 - 09/22/05 05:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Winston Churchill famously stated in a letter that they are real and he wants to know what they are.

I think UNIDENTIFIED flying objects are real too, and I also want to know what they are.

This is why I've followed up on a bunch and found reasonable explanations (see the New Mexico incident a few posts back), hoaxes (see Prophet Yahweh exposed as a liar in a recent thread), and a very few genuinely unexplained (means you don't know what it is) sightings.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4695790 - 09/22/05 05:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

People of every age and culture have seen the same circular, light covered discs

And almost all of them have been explained even though they "couldn't possibly be from Earth". See New Mexico a few posts ago...

and some people have even met the occupants (usually against their will which is understandable)

...but none of them managed to come back with an alien fiber or bacteria that rubbed off on their clothing...

Fear is the most predominant factor that keeps this a secret. The government knows that the 'sheep' of society is not ready to hear the truth (think about it religion everything)

Serious question 1: Do you believe that every government on Earth, including the ones that hate the US, is also hiding HARD evidence like an alien bacteria or a crashed ship?

Serious question 2: Does it makes sense to you that the government is so inept at keeping highly damaging information like the abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo secret but somehow has managed to keep hard evidence of alien visitation secret for 50 years? Not one single piece of alien metal, bacteria, or fiber has ever been leaked to reporters. Does this makes sense to you?

Please explain Travis Walton, Barney and Betty Hill incidents then...

I don't know what these are, but I'll bet they all boil down to a wild story and nothing more.

Provide links, and I'll take a look.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/22/05 05:37 PM)


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4696282 - 09/22/05 07:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Those questions are rubbish. No I don't believe every government has crashed discs etc blah

I believe if they knew, then they would not tell the public and would probably even actively try to hide the truth with things such as blue book.

Quote:

Diploid said:
I don't know what these are, but I'll bet they all boil down to a wild story and nothing more.

Provide links, and I'll take a look.




No research yourself, I can't be bothered. I would not convince you. bye.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4696325 - 09/22/05 07:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The available evidence will still show you to be wrong,.. it is not reasonable...reasonable




You're really clinging on to that logic, aren't you?  :smirk:


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4696455 - 09/22/05 07:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Nice try. Project Bluebook was a debunking campaign by the US government to discredit contactees and deny the existence of extra-terrestrial life.

Try this one - http://www.ufoalert.com/


A thing of 'unknown origins' is of unknown origins; it is not ET. Why must you insist on jumping to this conclusion over and over again when the only justified conclusion is that YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS?


Correct me if I'm wrong.. but UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object. It it is proven to be birds, airplanes, balloons, other man-made things, and natural phenomena.. then it's not a UFO. It becomes an IFO.

Now when you see a UFO, and then communicate telepathically with the drivers, then that too becomes an IFO. It's an alien flying a spacecraft.

UFO would be like when I see that spacecraft, but don't communicate with them.. so they are unidentified. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the flight patterns of their ships, and birds, planes, balloons, other man-made things, and natural phenomena does not move like that.


If you refuse to look at the evidence, I can't make you. There's millions of credible testimonies, and personal experience.. posted all over the web. Pictures from governments. All a click or two away. I've read most of it, and realize that somebody is trying to cover it up.


--------------------


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Ego Death]
    #4696709 - 09/22/05 08:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Those questions are rubbish.

Is your position so weak that it cannot withstand questions asked in a good-faith search for the truth?

No I don't believe every government has crashed discs etc blah

Do you believe that ANY other government besides the US has crashed alien ships?

Does it make sense to you that the US government can't keep Abu Ghraib and Gitmo abuses secret but somehow can manage to keep alien visitation secret for decades?

I believe if they knew, then they would not tell the public

What would that gain them? If they told, they'd be able to get mega funding for research. By keeping quiet (which doesn't seem possible given the constant leaks from Abu Ghraib and Gitmo) all they do is make it more difficult to get secret funding.

There has to be a motivation for keeping such a big secret; what is it?

Quote:

Diploid said:
I don't know what these are, but I'll bet they all boil down to a wild story and nothing more.

Provide links, and I'll take a look.




No research yourself, I can't be bothered. I would not convince you. bye.

I did research myself. I didn't find anything, that's why I'm asking you for help. This is my third request.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/22/05 11:16 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Asante]
    #4696719 - 09/22/05 08:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You're really clinging on to that logic, aren't you?

Thanks for the psychoanalysis.

Now, can you answer the questions I asked or are you going to critique my shirt next?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/23/05 12:55 AM)


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4696727 - 09/22/05 08:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If they managed to keep it a secret, we wouldn't know about it.

They only successfully had a widespread disinformation campaign.


--------------------


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4696758 - 09/22/05 08:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Serious question: If physicists used the Atoms are tiny Boddhisatvas theory, do you believe the atomic bombs the US dropped on Japan would have worked?





The intent of the Boddhisatva-thing is to say that you can have a completely different approach as to theory and still arrive at the same outcome (mass murder in one of the worst warcrimes to date, in this case)

The only difference between a delusional system and scientific assumptions is that the delusions are less consistant and predictive. If they are more so, the delusional system becomes the new science.
Flat Earth/Globe.

Quote:

You're arguing that somehow the Atomic Theory is totally wrong, but this makes as much sense as saying that the Condensed Water Rain Theory is totally wrong and rain really is the result of sweaty albatrosses, we just don't know it.




I'm saying we must seriously consider that both the atomic and condensed water theories are wrong and that it is all caused by the sweaty armpits of albatrosses.
Because the minute you truly believe you have found the Ultimate Truth the scientist within you dies and you stop thinking.

Its not about Boddhisatvas or sweaty albatross armpits. It's about taking the stance that all we think we know may be wrong.
To truly live with the 1% chance that we are fully wrong is one of the most precious things in a person's personal growth or spirituality.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Shroomism]
    #4696759 - 09/22/05 08:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Nice try. Project Bluebook was a debunking campaign by the US government to discredit contactees and deny the existence of extra-terrestrial life.

Try this one - http://www.ufoalert.com/


Here's the thing...

When you asked me for sources to support my statement that most sightings are explained as natural or human-made phenomena or hoaxes, I provided a link to ~13,000 documented cases of which 6% remain unexplained.

When I asked you for sources to "thousands and thousands of unsolved and unexplained observations", you give me a link to a some guy's site where the stated purpose right on the front page is:

"This web site is an attempt to document UFO sightings around the world."


They make no effort to analyze any of these sightings. They only catalog them. Until a sighting is analyzed, it is not "unsolved and unexplained". It's just a sighting that could be anything.

So I'll ask yet again for a source of "thousands and thousands of unsolved and unexplained observations".


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/22/05 09:02 PM)


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Shroomism]
    #4696766 - 09/22/05 08:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

If they managed to keep it a secret, we wouldn't know about it.

And what about every other government on Earth, many of which hate the US and would like nothing better than to 'expose' our lies about alien visitation?

Or do you believe that aliens only crash in the US?

They only successfully had a widespread disinformation campaign.

Sources please?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Shroomism]
    #4696803 - 09/22/05 08:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

UFO would be like when I see that spacecraft, but don't communicate with them.. so they are unidentified. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the flight patterns of their ships, and birds, planes, balloons, other man-made things, and natural phenomena does not move like that.

Are you deliberately ignoring my detailing of an object that "does not move like that" in New Mexico?

It turned out to be reflections of a distant town bouncing of the refractive index change (the same thing that causes shimmering in the distance over a hot roadway) in a standing thermocline in the atmosphere as the air currents shifted rapidly in mountain turbulence. How many other sightings of objects that "do not move like that" can, and have been, explained by researchers when they looked closely? Project Blue Book contains almost 13,000 explained sightings of objects that "do not move like that".

And by the way, you have yet to refute PBB. All you've provided is a link to some guy's web site cataloging a bunch of unresearched sightings taken on faith to be aliens.

I now invoke Icelander's Three-request Rule.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/24/05 03:26 AM)


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Asante]
    #4696878 - 09/22/05 09:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The intent of the Boddhisatva-thing is to say that you can have a completely different approach as to theory and still arrive at the same outcome

Once again, you fail to answer a simple question. I'll try again:

Serious question: If physicists used the Atoms are tiny Boddhisatvas theory, do you believe the atomic bombs the US dropped on Japan would have worked?

I'm saying we must seriously consider that both the atomic and condensed water theories are wrong and that it is all caused by the sweaty armpits of albatrosses.

Given the giant mounds of evidence supporting the Atomic Theory and Condensed Water Theory, and the small (read: zero) amount of evidence supporting the Armpit Theory, it's all but useless to consider the latter.

Would you, as you say, "seriously consider" that all the money in your bank account actually belongs to me? If not, you are being dishonest in your assertion that we should "seriously consider" the Armpit Theory of where rain comes from. If you do, then please send me the money.

It's about taking the stance that all we think we know may be wrong.

Despite what you've been lead to believe, this is a scientific truism.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4696932 - 09/22/05 09:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

"According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is 'a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.' No amount of validation changes a theory into a law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature. So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution--or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter--they are not expressing reservations about its truth."

This is where science is separated from a believe.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Annom]
    #4697292 - 09/22/05 10:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

when scientists talk about [a theory] they are not expressing reservations about its truth

Neither are they expressing certainty about its truth.

They are expressing only a reasonable explanation of the available observations and experimental results that is subject to revision when/if new evidence becomes available.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4698001 - 09/23/05 12:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Project Blue Book investigated 12,618 UFO sightings and 701 of those sightings remained unidentified. Many UFO researchers feel that the investigations of the UFO sightings were unprofessional and unscientific. The program used poor research methods and researchers were too eager to label a mysterious sighting as "identified" phenomena. Individual researchers and UFO organisations believe that members of Project Blue Book were pressured to "identify" UFO sightings to calm the public hysteria about UFOs. This theory has been supported by the recent release of CIA documents pertaining to UFOs. They also suggest that any report that was initially perceived as unexplainable or would cause public concern was never included in Project Blue Book. They allege that these reports were passed on to a higher authority that never reported the results to the public. Project Blue Book, it seems, was just a low level collection and disinformation program created under Project Sign (of December 1947) which evolved into Project Grudge (of December 1948) to cover up the true investigation into the alien presence on Earth." From "United States Air Force Project Blue Book", Above Top Secret Website





http://www.ufoevidence.org/

http://www.nicap.org/hallstate.htm

http://www.rense.com/general52/mexv.htm

http://www.bvalphaserver.com/contentid-9.html

http://www.larryhatch.net/

http://www.caus.org/home.shtml

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1477.htm

http://www.unexplainedresearch.com/in_the_news/UFO_Mondovi.html

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Shroomism]
    #4698385 - 09/23/05 01:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Many UFO researchers feel that the investigations of the UFO sightings were unprofessional and unscientific.

Alright, let's look at an example from book 12:

Begin Report
Description

One unidentified object was reported by two USAF officers stationed with the Moby Dick balloon launching detachment, Tillamook, Oregon. This object was seen at 1010 PST 9 June 1953. The object was viewed through a theodolite and appeared half-moon in shape and white in color. It appeared to hover and no manner of propulsion was observed. No manner of disappearance was reported.

Discussion

During such a long period of observation, any conventional object known to be on this earth would, under existing conditions, have moved more than this particular object did. The winds at 30,000 feet were from 120 deg at 25 knots. Project Blue Book's astronomer was contacted and they stated that this sighting was undoubtedly the planet Venus which, under ideal conditions, can be seen during the daylight hours.

Conclusion

Was astronomical (Venus).

End Report

I saw Venus in the early afternoon after lunch in broad daylight a few days ago, and it's funny I happened upon this particular Blue Book explanation by chance. Two of the five people I was with at the time thought Venus was a UFO until I explained what it was and that due to Venus' orbit being inside that of the Earth, Venus actually exhibits phases just like the moon, and just like reported in the UFO incident analyzed above. The outer planets don't.

Now, the beef of the issue.

What part of that report was "unprofessional and unscientific"?

Project Blue Book were pressured to "identify" UFO sightings to calm the public hysteria about UFOs. This theory has been supported by the recent release of CIA documents

Sources please? I'd like to read those CIA documents for myself.

They also suggest that any report that was initially perceived as unexplainable or would cause public concern was never included in Project Blue Book.

Alright, how about this one also from book 12:

Begin Report
Description

At 2310 EST on 10 June 1953 and AFROTC cadet at Wayne University observed one large bright object that was white or light yellow in color, round in shape and larger than a star. This object moved from a high westerly position in a falling arc toward the north and then leveled off and proceeded at high rate of speed to the north in a straight line. This object made these maneuvers in a period of 60 seconds and disappeared over the northern horizon. The object, though bright, cast no beam nor left any trail or exhaust. No sound was noticed.

Discussion

Movements of this object and length of observation eliminate the possibility that it was of astronomical origin. Checks with airports in the vicinity revealed that there was one aircraft in the area. This was DC-4 enroute to Chicago on a heading of 270 deg and was probably not in the area. A check was made with the weather bureau to determine whether or not they had a balloon in the area. A balloon was released at 0300Z, but it could not have caused the sighting since it burst before 0410Z (time of sighting).

Conclusion

Unsolved

End Report

As you can see, contrary to the UFO proponents you are quoting, PBB certainly DID state that something was unexplainable when it in fact was unexplainable. Now, I have to wonder, who are the ones making up misinformation, PBB or the UFO proponents you are quoting?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (09/23/05 02:09 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Diploid]
    #4698497 - 09/23/05 01:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I've provided one explained, one unexplained, and just for good measure, here's a hoax.

From book 12:

Begin Report
Description

On the night of 7 July 1953, three observers from Atlanta were driving on Highway 78 near Mapleton, Georgia, when they encountered a "flying saucer" in the middle of the road. There were three small animals near this red colored "saucer". As the observers bore down on this object, two of the animals entered the "saucer" and escaped. As the "saucer" rose and disappeared at a 45 degree angle, it turned a light blue in color. Observers' car struck the third animal and knocked him unconscious. After getting out of the car and finding this animal which was approximately 21 inches in length, had long ears, no hair, and no tail, observers stayed at the scene and several other automobiles stopped. The animal died in about 30 minutes and was taken to one of the Atlanta newspapers. A reporter for the newspaper called the FBI, who in turn called the OSI to investigate the incident.

Discussion

This animal was first examined by a local veterinarian who stated that he had never seen such an animal before. Later the animal was taken to Emory University where an Emory authority identified it as a member of the monkey family and not an "animal from space". A member of the State Crime Laboratory and another member of the Emory University staff identified the animal as a monkey which had been shaved and from which the tail had been removed. Observers confirmed that the whole story was a hoax resulting from a $10.00 bet with a friend that he (observer) could not get his picture in the paper. Observer was fined $40.00 for obstructing the highway and was released at that time.

Conclusion

Other - Hoax.

Note: This is one of many similar reports received by Project Blue Book.

End Report


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: Swami]
    #4704250 - 09/24/05 08:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the thing that i find particularly telling about UFO reports is the absence of anything unexpected. All of the supposed alien encounters that have been described all conform to a formula present in many science fiction stories, eg, saucer shaped craft, beings that look and act similarly to humans, but different in small matters such as the shape of their heads or bodies, lights flying in formation, all things that science fiction stories have told us to expect...

i've never heard someone claim to have seen a spaceship that looks exactly like a dog, for example, or a ship made out of cheese... these things would seem to bizarre to an observer, who upon seeing a giant flying snack machine would assume he is hallucinating, but a person who hallucinates a triangular pattern of lights is convinced he has seen an extraterrestrial...

modes of communication reported to have been experienced are also quite predictable, invariably involving mental telepathy or human speech... nobody ever claimed that an alien communicated by changing eye colors, or through scent communication, because in order to communicate with an alien one must understand the alien... i have yet to hear of an alien encounter where the person did not understand in some way the communications being presented by the aliens...

an encounter with a bona fide alien would more resemble an encounter with a fish, wherein there is no understanding of the thoughts, motivations, or purposes of the fish and where no communication is possible because we don't know how the fish communicates and the fish likewise does not know how to talk to us... that fish could be telling me his life story, but i would not even percieve that the fish was attempting communication at all...

now fish share this planet with us, have common ancestors with us, as do birds, rats, and snakes, yet we can communicate with none of them...

a being that does not share the same ancestry or home planet would have even less chance of communicating with us than we have of communicating with squirrels...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Best UFO Evidence [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4706383 - 09/24/05 07:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

modes of communication reported to have been experienced are also quite predictable, invariably involving mental telepathy or human speech

You silly, they use their Universal Translator. Sheesh, don't you know anything?  :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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