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OfflineJEDI
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Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 83
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
why do people think this way?
    #4536212 - 08/15/05 01:20 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

not believing in a God, when they know they are living.

believing in no afterlife, when theres life right now.

not believing in a heaven and hell, when there is good and evil in the world we live in.

believing that we were created from some highly developed scientific space time evolution proven fact, when we have minds of our own and we live with free will as our surpreme gift?

atheists please help me understand your view points, for i have a difficult time understanding SOMETHING BEING CREATED FROM ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. (edit: this idea changed)

THANKS.

edit:
okay, well if you think about it. were living. so God created us which explains life. if God isnt living, than we wouldnt be living, only matter and/or nothing.

nothing can be considered a matter. matter exists as an eternal item. matter is nothing/nothing is matter. so matter/nothing created God.


Edited by JEDI (08/15/05 01:29 AM)


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: JEDI]
    #4536231 - 08/15/05 01:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

God was created from absolutely nothing, so why not us?

The main reason most people don't believe in these concepts can be summed up in a simple sentence: There's no evidence whatsoever.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineJEDI
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: Ravus]
    #4536233 - 08/15/05 01:29 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
God was created from absolutely nothing, so why not us?

The main reason most people don't believe in these concepts can be summed up in a simple sentence: There's no evidence whatsoever.




evidence cant prove the paranormal.

matter is nothing and matter could of created us humans so matter could be God and once we humans were created, we could of subconciously created a heaven and hell and an afterlife through matter/nothing.

if matter/nothing is God, and God is matter/nothing, then we were created from matter/nothing, which is basically nothing. nothing is our God, but our God could of been the first dead organism in the universes history, and that dead organism is matter/nothing thus controlling and being a God.


Edited by JEDI (08/15/05 01:31 AM)


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: JEDI]
    #4536243 - 08/15/05 01:31 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

its not that it doesnt exsist.
Its more about being uncomprehendable.
my brother talked to me once about space.
endlessness.
try to comprehend that.
just cause u cant comprehend it doesnt mean its not there.
hope that makes sence.


--------------------


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OfflineJEDI
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #4536247 - 08/15/05 01:33 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SubGen1us said:
its not that it doesnt exsist.
Its more about being uncomprehendable.
my brother talked to me once about space.
endlessness.
try to comprehend that.
just cause u cant comprehend it doesnt mean its not there.
hope that makes sence.




space does end. ive experienced it on a really intense trip one day, it changed my life forever.


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: JEDI]
    #4536258 - 08/15/05 01:35 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

did u experience space ending or did u pass threw it to something else?

:crazy:


--------------------


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: JEDI]
    #4536279 - 08/15/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The fact that I am alive in no way implies that a diety created me.
The fact that I am alive in no way implies that when my physical body ceases to function, I will continue to exist in another form.
The fact that humans exhibit certain behaviors does not imply two seperate, extreme categorical realms.
The fact that we are sentient beings does not imply that a greater power granted us that ability.

Let me ask you this- why do you believe in god when there has never been proof of his/her/its existance?
Why do you believe in the concept of a soul at all? What implies its existance?
Why do you believe in an afterlife, if no one has ever proved it exists, nor returned to tell us about it?
Why do you refuse to believe that in an infinite universe, containing a massive amount of units of matter, some randomly combined under the right conditions and created a replicating system that became self-aware?

Please note I'm just listing counterpoints, I hope it doesn't come across as offensive. But I'm equally interested in your perspective. Also, if you don't mind sharing, what particular theology do you subscribe to?


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: JEDI]
    #4536283 - 08/15/05 01:40 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Alright, you have two threads of the same thing, so my response to the other one is http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4536274/Main/4534324#Post4536274 for future reference. You make the same points in both.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineLittleBen
Feed Me A StrayCat

Registered: 08/31/02
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #4536285 - 08/15/05 01:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yea, logically infinity makes more sense than God or creation. I would love to hear why you think life now leads you to believe there is an afterlife.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: JEDI]
    #4536300 - 08/15/05 01:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

evidence cant prove the paranormal.




Seeing as the entire human experience is simply evidence, the paranormal either doesn't exist or exists outside of any human experience and is therefore irrelevant until it becomes a part of human experience. But if the paranormal was such a massive part of the universe, wouldn't it be part of human experience and therefore human evidence? If it has no evidence it must either be a tiny part of the universe or not exist at all.

Quote:

matter is nothing and matter could of created us humans so matter could be God and once we humans were created, we could of subconciously created a heaven and hell and an afterlife through matter/nothing.




I agree with that last part; we did create Heaven and Hell and the afterlife in our subconscious. Then the subconscious passed it on to someone's conscious mind and they said, "Wow, I have no evidence whatsoever for this, and it goes against all scientific observations, but man that was still an intense dream!"

But matter is not nothing, otherwise the universe would be nothing, which it clearly is not seeing as I'm typing right now.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Registered: 07/14/05
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #4536328 - 08/15/05 01:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

terming something 'a god' instantly seems to create a personalisation (yes I suppose this is the goal, I see now).

But to me, being has always simply been - being. Existence itself is infinitely complicated before the application of some 'external god thing'. I hated it.

So, yes I believe in 'god', where god is some infinite focus between massive complexity and perception.


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: LittleBen]
    #4536330 - 08/15/05 01:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i have so many storys about wat i think will happen.
ive tripped so many times and have seen so many prospect afterlives.
Also i have had many visions of how life works without a why.
its so hard to explain this stuff.
My friends here i got to take off to toke up.
i dont know if u were talking to me but u replied to me so i answered.
If u where replying to me i can go more into detail i guess.
ive never really tried explaing this stuff to anyone before.


--------------------


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: JEDI]
    #4536795 - 08/15/05 05:11 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

the power of faith is stronger when questioning is stopped.
question everything you have time for in order to return that power to the people.

faith helps hard working folk get the work done.

it is a smart politic.


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Offlinealsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,203
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: JEDI]
    #4536804 - 08/15/05 05:21 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

why do people think that god created the world? why not god = world? it makes everything so much simpler.


--------------------
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: SubGen1us]
    #4536815 - 08/15/05 05:38 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

why do people think that god created the world? why not god = world? it makes everything so much simpler.

Good god yes!

Quote:

SubGen1us said:
i have so many storys about wat i think will happen.
ive tripped so many times and have seen so many prospect afterlives.
Also i have had many visions of how life works without a why.
its so hard to explain this stuff.
My friends here i got to take off to toke up.
i dont know if u were talking to me but u replied to me so i answered.
If u where replying to me i can go more into detail i guess.
ive never really tried explaing this stuff to anyone before.




I can relate. So many hows, no whys. I wasn't responding to you, but your response to me was insightful, thank you for that.


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


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OfflineJEDI
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Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 83
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: why do people think this way? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #4536983 - 08/15/05 08:17 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Drink_Punk_Soda said:
The fact that I am alive in no way implies that a diety created me.
The fact that I am alive in no way implies that when my physical body ceases to function, I will continue to exist in another form. 
The fact that humans exhibit certain behaviors does not imply two seperate, extreme categorical realms.
The fact that we are sentient beings does not imply that a greater power granted us that ability.

Let me ask you this- why do you believe in god when there has never been proof of his/her/its existance?
Why do you believe in the concept of a soul at all?  What implies its existance?
Why do you believe in an afterlife, if no one has ever proved it exists, nor returned to tell us about it?
Why do you refuse to believe that in an infinite universe, containing a massive amount of units of matter, some randomly combined under the right conditions and created a replicating system that became self-aware?

Please note I'm just listing counterpoints, I hope it doesn't come across as offensive.  But I'm equally interested in your perspective.  Also, if you don't mind sharing, what particular theology do you subscribe to?




im not taking this in offense, i enjoy philosophical arguments. and i enjoyed your read. well, i simply believe that if we humans are the god of the earth, then there is a God to us. (its early in the morning i cant think of anything really good right now).

Quote:

SubGen1us said:
did u experience space ending or did u pass threw it to something else?

:crazy:




the most intense ive ever had. actually the most ive ever got my hands on was i chugged down 4 cups (711 size big gulp) of mescaline extract drink. an hour and 30 minutes later i warped into space and a sick reality struck me. i reached the end of space and time. its really difficult to comprehend the experience it was like part bad trip/part mystical. my mind was flushed with ideas and thoughts that seemed like only Godly to me but when i awoke the next day all i remember was thinking those thoughts and ideas but what i was thinking was totally forgotten.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: Ravus]
    #4537022 - 08/15/05 08:53 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
God was created from absolutely nothing, so why not us?

The main reason most people don't believe in these concepts can be summed up in a simple sentence: There's no evidence whatsoever.




Who ever said god was created? I don't recal any religion connecting god with passage of time. He simply is


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflinemushboyS
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4537028 - 08/15/05 09:01 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If thir is a god, its/he/she/whatever is only a bunch of information out in space.
and besides he could of crated something better then humans. humans are frale, scared little things that hate each other and the things around us.


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OfflineJEDI
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Re: why do people think this way? [Re: mushboy]
    #4537118 - 08/15/05 10:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
If thir is a god, its/he/she/whatever is only a bunch of information out in space.
and besides he could of crated something better then humans. humans are frale, scared little things that hate each other and the things around us.




what your saying is irrelevant to the topic.


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OfflineJEDI
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Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 83
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: why do people think this way? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4537132 - 08/15/05 10:36 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Ravus said:
God was created from absolutely nothing, so why not us?

The main reason most people don't believe in these concepts can be summed up in a simple sentence: There's no evidence whatsoever.




Who ever said god was created? I don't recal any religion connecting god with passage of time. He simply is




just "is" doesnt exist and isnt possible because God cant be just "is" if theres nothing there in the first place for "is" to even become matter. in other words, something cannot be created from nothing, except for my idea above about nothing being matter and matter being God, God being nothing, we being created from nothing, which is God/matter, etc. etc. etc.


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