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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Registered: 07/14/05
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Good will, that isn't?
    #4535359 - 08/14/05 10:28 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

My roomates girlfriend told me a story over dinner last night. It angered me, and got me thinking.

She told of writting fictional letters for a friend of hers, from some random 'guy'. Esteem boost I suppose? I really have no idea. This is part of what bothered me. I can imagine some truely cruel things.. I mean.. truely brutal and insane things. I am not trying to sound proud, nor trying to sound like the 'alpha ape' by relating this to you. But of all the things I could think of doing to other people, it all came down to a fundemental desire to injure, to maim, to destroy, to gut. The phrase 'chainsaw sodomy' comes to mind. Basically, I can imagine some pretty inhumane things to do to a person, this is not a point of pride.

I could not believe what she was telling me, honestly. She explained her reasoning for doing it, 'making her friend feel better' - as being a sort of victimless crime. This is not what I heard at all. Those were the words she used, but what I heard went something like this:

Yeah, so there's this pitiful wretch of a human being. I felt just oh so good writting this letter for her. I am so secure in my own being that I absolutely must aid those that aren't exactly like me. Because, my version of happiness is the absolute. giggle - I R THROW PENNIES AT POOR PEOPLE. I feel better about myself by weaving delusion, rather than teaching truth.

Is my interperetation fair? The intent was nothing more than altruistic... can altruism be evil? I don't like the fact that I am even judging her descision to do this. She believed she was acting altruistically.

But it seems to be out of ignorance? I am stumped on what to think about this at all. She may as well have told me that she just killed 30 people by ramming hollowed metal tubes up their anus and slowly rending hot coals into the tube, while their arms were tied up. I was appaled by her.. ignorance? misguided sense of all pervasive 'love'? or was it some subconscious selfish thing?


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


Edited by AvatarofAtavism (08/14/05 10:32 PM)


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InvisibleLe_Canard
Danger Man

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,269
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535403 - 08/14/05 10:39 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AvatarofAtavism said:


Yeah, so there's this pitiful wretch of a human being. I felt just oh so good writting this letter for her. I am so secure in my own being that I absolutely must aid those that aren't exactly like me. Because, my version of happiness is the absolute. giggle - I R THROW PENNIES AT POOR PEOPLE. I feel better about myself by weaving delusion, rather than teaching truth.




I don't follow this at all. Are you saying all altruistic people are this way, or just how you perceive this particular situation?

If it's the former, then you're way off base. There actually ARE some genuinely nice, altruistic people out there....

Quote:

Is my interperetation fair? The intent was nothing more than altruistic... can altruism be evil? I don't like the fact that I am even judging her descision to do this. She believed she was acting altruistically.





Not per se, although in some instances, the results of misguided altruism can have some bad effects sometimes.....


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535412 - 08/14/05 10:41 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

i'm reluctant to respond because it seems you made the post more complicated than it need be.

but yeah...i don't like what your friend's g.f. did...because it was a lie...and if she found out...it would make her feel even less secure.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535416 - 08/14/05 10:42 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

She just sounds immature....stupid and insensitive, but not evil.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4535510 - 08/14/05 11:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Quote:

AvatarofAtavism said:


Yeah, so there's this pitiful wretch of a human being. I felt just oh so good writting this letter for her. I am so secure in my own being that I absolutely must aid those that aren't exactly like me. Because, my version of happiness is the absolute. giggle - I R THROW PENNIES AT POOR PEOPLE. I feel better about myself by weaving delusion, rather than teaching truth.




I don't follow this at all. Are you saying all altruistic people are this way, or just how you perceive this particular situation?

If it's the former, then you're way off base. There actually ARE some genuinely nice, altruistic people out there....




Not all altruistic people, not at all. Perhaps I simply meant misguided altruism? Essentialy, lying to make things better.

I dissect the psychology of it and I see a kind of self-ego stroking mechanism. I sort of related this to myself as best I could in another thread (aniexity thread), in a very real way. Altruism, such as feeding a hungry poor person is one thing. A requirement for life is being given. But altruism where you are essentially providing what may/may not be needed at all, seems, somehow selfish to me. And going about it in the fashion of a web of lies seems like the wrong way to do it anyways.

further example: it is as if you are making a value judgement about life, and assuming that all other people want this same value. Rather than recognising what people truly need you are seeing what you would want if you were in the same situation? So you are in effect 'giving to a poorer version of yourself', well, not everyone is 'yourself'.

(sorry for using 'you' as a reference)


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


Edited by AvatarofAtavism (08/15/05 03:58 AM)


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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Registered: 07/14/05
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535537 - 08/14/05 11:07 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Mostly this has really bothered me because I suspect something resembling this has been enacted upon me. And no one is willing to tell me the truth about it. I've ended up being -very- paranoid.


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535622 - 08/14/05 11:23 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

She may as well have told me that she just killed 30 people by ramming hollowed metal tubes up their anus and slowly rending hot coals into the tube, while their arms were tied up.
__________________________________________________________

You're over reacting just a tinsy tiny bit, don't you think? :tongue:

What's up with that? This interests me much more than what she did. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Icelander]
    #4535638 - 08/14/05 11:26 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"What's up with that? This interests me much more than what she did"

Yeah...good point. Ask him if he has any hollow metal tubes on hand.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535676 - 08/14/05 11:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AvatarofAtavism said:
Mostly this has really bothered me because I suspect something resembling this has been enacted upon me.  And no one is willing to tell me the truth about it.  I've ended up being -very- paranoid.




"Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep. It starts when your always afraid. Step out of line, the man comes to take you away." :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4535678 - 08/14/05 11:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I like the Kingsford regular coals; not those smelly self-lighting ones.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Registered: 07/14/05
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Icelander]
    #4535695 - 08/14/05 11:35 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I am just trying to put it into terms of what I was feeling. I... really can not understand the mindset. Be it purely for good, or purely for evil, whatever the personal interperetation.

Liquifying the interior organs seems a good way to describe forcing someone to behave in a certain way. "I have taken this mess of blood and function, and turned it into a smoothly flowing liquid". Hot coals seem a good way to describe the use of artiface. The anus, well, no one likes the smell of shit.

I can understand the intent being good. But how can you look back on that without questioning yourself? If you truely never think about it again, you are glossing over yourself. Living in the moment (fine, good). Living in the moment is taking what you need, when you need it, with no concept of past or present. Dogs display an awareness of past and present. I would hope that humans do as well. If you DO look back on it, and question it in any way, why do you maintain the lie? Cut the web up, clear the space away, let some breeze in. Is the truth so hard to tell?


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/17/03
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535700 - 08/14/05 11:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AvatarofAtavism said:

Not all altruistic people, not at all.  Perhaps I simply meant misguided altruism?  Essentialy, lying to make things better.




Oh I see. Well that depends on the case, I suppose. Sometimes you HAVE to tell "little white lies", particularly when a female asks you "does this make me look fat?"..... :tongue:


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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Swami]
    #4535712 - 08/14/05 11:39 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I like the Kingsford regular coals; not those smelly self-lighting ones.




I have seven pairs of plastic erasers in my 2nd cabinet shelf.

It's fun to avoid the truth with amusing phrases eh?

No offence (hey, I mean it, what do you know, it isn't just a figure of speech!), but why?


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4535726 - 08/14/05 11:41 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I've posted my thoughts on that, here before.

It's all about seeing through the question. The question is not a question at all, it is a statement. "Justify me now!".

no=I justify you

yes=you are not worthy of justification, and so I mock you


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535741 - 08/14/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

You brought up the hot coals. :fire:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4535745 - 08/14/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If it's the former, then you're way off base. There actually ARE some genuinely nice, altruistic people out there....




But how do you know their altruism isn't just a result of some deeper selfish mutation in all of them? After all, why do people do good for others? So they can feel better about themselves, so they can feel they've made a difference? Even if they do good for others, the reason they did it can be said to be for completely selfish purposes.

In the end everything could be said to be selfish, but this is just an opinion.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineAvatarofAtavism
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Ravus]
    #4535896 - 08/15/05 12:13 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Quote:

If it's the former, then you're way off base. There actually ARE some genuinely nice, altruistic people out there....




But how do you know their altruism isn't just a result of some deeper selfish mutation in all of them? After all, why do people do good for others? So they can feel better about themselves, so they can feel they've made a difference? Even if they do good for others, the reason they did it can be said to be for completely selfish purposes.

In the end everything could be said to be selfish, but this is just an opinion.




Very true.  Everything could be seen as selfish to some degree.  Or, in the right light.  I don't know what I am feeling, other than frustrated with people.

Quote:

Swami said:
You brought up the hot coals. :fire:




Uhm.. anal sex is fun?  What do you want from me?  If I had used a different phrase, would you have questioned the quality of that as well?  Or simply because 'poo poo is yucky, hurrr.. yeah'?  I can explain why I used that reference more if you want, but I don't see it as being that related to my post?


--------------------
Do not despair, said the mystery. You will always have a friend in me. Untill the day you break my code. Then I will be gone, and you are free...
to manifest another.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
Danger Man

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 93,269
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Ravus]
    #4535917 - 08/15/05 12:17 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:

But how do you know their altruism isn't just a result of some deeper selfish mutation in all of them? After all, why do people do good for others? So they can feel better about themselves, so they can feel they've made a difference? Even if they do good for others, the reason they did it can be said to be for completely selfish purposes.

In the end everything could be said to be selfish, but this is just an opinion.




Well, when you think about it IS, in a funny way, selfish. It always makes me feel good to, say, help someone stranded on a road or someone in need. It can make my whole day sometimes! And, most people appreciate it....


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: AvatarofAtavism]
    #4535921 - 08/15/05 12:17 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Is the truth so hard to tell?
____________________________________

Often seems to be. Usually fear is the reason for witholding truth. But if someone else lies. Is that you're problem? If you are acting in an appropriate manner,what others do is not very important.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLittleBen
Feed Me A StrayCat

Registered: 08/31/02
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Re: Good will, that isn't? [Re: Icelander]
    #4536079 - 08/15/05 12:51 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

There is cruelty and love in everything. I think only she can really know if she is being cruel and only the other girl can know if she is hurt by it. You not approving is important and I definitely think it is a fair interpretation. Just dont try to judge.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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