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OfflineVex
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man burned to death by wal-mart security guards
    #4532892 - 08/14/05 07:02 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1...G=461&rfi=9

A Cleveland man died last Sunday after a scuffle with security guards at the Walmart Super Center located at 6626 FM1960 in Atascocita.

According to witnesses, Stacy Driver ran out of the store and was pursued by Walmart loss prevention employees. A short time later, Driver was dead, and the Walmart employees were trying to explain the last moments of his life to police.

Charles Portz said he was getting out of his car when he saw a heavy blonde haired man being chased by five people who appeared to be security or store employees. He said he saw them wrestling the man to the ground. "The blacktop was extremely hot," said Portz "He had no shirt on and they wouldn't let him up off the blacktop." He said one of the men had Driver in a chokehold and had his knee in the back of his neck as the men tried to subdue him. "He kept trying to get up and they kept pushing him back down," Portz said.

According to Portz, Driver began to plead with them men. "He's begging, 'Please call an ambulance, let me up, do something, I'm gonna die," said Portz. He said the loss prevention employees called the police more than once, but another bystander called for an ambulance after realizing Driver was in trouble. Portz said he eventually began to plead with the Walmart employees. "I told them, this guy doesn't look like he's breathing," Portz said, "They said, 'He's all right." He says he continued to plead with the men, pointing out that the man's fingernails were turning gray. "They said he's just high on something," adding, "They just kept him pinned down for twenty minutes or more until the ambulance came." He said he believed Driver was dead when the ambulance left with him, but he was not certain.

The store employees could not have known that the witness who was pleading with them to let Driver get up from the hot pavement was a high profile Houston attorney, from the Portz and Portz law firm. He said after the man was handcuffed he continued trying in vain to persuade the Walmart employees to allow him to get up, even pointing out that a second pair of cuffs could be used to attach the ones already on Driver to a nearby truck trailer. "The problem is they kept him down on the blistering concrete with no shirt on," Portz reiterated. He said law enforcement arrived at about the same time as the ambulance.

Detective Robert T. Tonry, with the Homicide Division of the Harris County Sheriff's Department is investigating the death. He confirmed that Driver had struggled with Walmart loss prevention employees before being handcuffed and was not breathing a short time later. Tonry said he was transported to Northeast Medical Center in Humble where he pronounced dead. According to Tonry, some of the items Driver had in his possession which were believed to have been stolen were baby diapers, a BB gun and BBs.

Tonry said he was talking to store employees and would be contacting other witnesses. He said anyone else who might have information should contact the Homicide Division of the Harris County Sheriff's Department.

Driver was the son of H.C. Driver of Cleveland. Pat Driver was his step-mother and her sister Lily was speaking for the family on Monday. "The boy was loved and he might have done something wrong, but he did not deserve that," Lily said, "The family has no other comment at this time. "He would have celebrated his 31st birthday on August 31. Instead, his family is making funeral arrangements. As of this writing, the official cause of death had not been released.


WTF! I hope these security guards are prosecuted. I doubt they could face murder though since it was on wal-mart property, but possibly some sort of negligence charge? I don't know. What could happen to these assholes?

Also i hope the family has the sense to sue the shit out of wal-mart. That's a hell of a shitty way to die.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Vex]
    #4532948 - 08/14/05 07:50 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

And yet another misleading thread title appears in PA&L.


No Wal Mart security guards burned anyone to death.





Phred


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Invisiblequestion_for_joo
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Vex]
    #4533115 - 08/14/05 10:02 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I hope someone burns those walmart "loss prevention" faggots to death.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4533155 - 08/14/05 10:12 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Let me guess. Wal-mart = big corporation, therefore willingly kills people for fun in the name of profits?

Seriously, why is this even here?


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: looner2]
    #4533173 - 08/14/05 10:25 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Because when somebody is killed law gets involved. And this forums deals with law, so it fits. It will be interesting to see how this mans death is handled.


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Edited by bellylard (08/14/05 10:37 AM)


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Invisible1stimer
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: barfightlard]
    #4533392 - 08/14/05 12:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Wal-Mart should get sued, and the people involved in holding the man down should be charged with murder.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Phred]
    #4533757 - 08/14/05 02:35 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

They burned that guy to death, dude.

"Burn" does not mean "incineration by flames".


But that is what I was expecting; some guy covered in a flamable liquid that was subsequently ignited, but technically, the word "burn" isn't that specific.


The guards should get at least a few years in prison. Wal-Mart should be sued for billions of dollars for lots of reasons.


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4533767 - 08/14/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I hope his family files a civil suit, the security guards are prosecuted, and any parents with children in the proximity file civil suits as well.


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OfflineSycronica
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4533809 - 08/14/05 02:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well Phred is the word manipulation master. Anything big govt or big business does has to be downplayed because they never do anything wrong.

From my view I would LOVE to see walmart get their asses sued big time over this one. This is bullshit they are holding a guy on hot blacktop long enough to die. What they suppose to say? "We didn't notice the blacktop was BURNING hot while we were holding him down on it" ??? I bet they got some burn marks from it too, fucking idiots.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4534034 - 08/14/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Baby_Hitler writes:

Quote:

They burned that guy to death, dude.




No they didn't.

Quote:

"Burn" does not mean "incineration by flames".




"Burned to death" means the cause of death was by burning. The guy wasn't burned to death. He probably received some burns from the hot tarmac. But the burns weren't what killed him.

Did the security guards mishandle the situation? Unquestionably! Once the guy was cuffed there was no reason not to let him get to his feet.

Did the security guards burn him to death? Nope.



Phred


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Phred]
    #4534085 - 08/14/05 04:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

burn
v. burned or burnt [ b?rnt ], burn?ing, burns
v. tr.


1. a. To cause to undergo combustion. b. To destroy with fire: burned the trash; burn a house down. c. To consume (fuel or energy, for example): burned all the wood that winter.

2. Physics To cause to undergo nuclear fission or fusion.

3. To damage or injure by fire, heat, radiation, electricity, or a caustic agent: burned the toast; burned my skin with the acid.

4. a. To execute or kill with fire: burning heretics at the stake. b. To execute by electrocution.

5. a. To make or produce by fire or heat: burn a hole in the rug. b. To dispel; dissipate: The sun burned off the fog.

6. a. To use as a fuel: a furnace that burns coal. b. To metabolize (glucose, for example) in the body.

7. To impart a sensation of intense heat to: The chili burned my mouth.

8. a. To irritate or inflame, as by chafing or sunburn. b. To let (oneself or a part of one's body) become sunburned.

9. To brand (an animal).

10. To engrave or make indelible by as or as if by burning: The image of the accident was burned into my memory.

11. To harden or impart a finish to by subjecting to intense heat; fire: burn clay pots in a kiln.




http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/b/b0563100.html

He was clearly damaged and possibly killed by the extended exposure to direct heat from the pavement, so this is entirely the definition of being burned.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Phred]
    #4534093 - 08/14/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

And what do you think killed him if not the extreme heat from being shirtless on burning pavement on a sweltering Texas day? Unless the security guards somehow suffocated him, the burning seems to be quite obviously a probable cause of death. People don't just die from being subdued.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Phred]
    #4534163 - 08/14/05 04:36 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

They burned him. If the heat of the pavement was the cause of his death, then they burned him to death.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Ravus]
    #4534181 - 08/14/05 04:40 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

It takes a lot to burn someone TO DEATH.

I don't object to people saying the guy got burnt from being forced onto hot pavement. He almost certainly got burns from that treatment. What I object to is saying he was burnt to death. He wasn't.

Quote:

Unless the security guards somehow suffocated him...




That may well have been the case. Re-read the linked article --

"He said one of the men had Driver in a chokehold and had his knee in the back of his neck as the men tried to subdue him."

It's also not beyond the realm of possibility the guy was totally whacked on speed or something and just stressed out. Hell, there have been stories in the news of apparently healthy teenagers dying from being pushed too hard during football practice.

Would he still be alive today had the guards just cuffed him to a post or something? Could be. Or it could be that the security guard who laid the chokehold on him crushed the guy's windpipe. That wouldn't be the first time that has occurred.

My point is that the guy wasn't "burned to death".



Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #4534198 - 08/14/05 04:45 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Baby_Hitler writes:

Quote:

If the heat of the pavement was the cause of his death, then they burned him to death.




Operative word -- "if" -- bolded by Phred.

But even then, death by heatstroke is not the same as being "burned to death". What about the thousands of French folks who died in last year's heat wave. Were they "burned to death"?




Phred


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Phred]
    #4534256 - 08/14/05 04:59 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

What if you set someone on fire with gasoline, and they die from smoke inhalation, and then thier dead carcas is consumed by the fire until they are nothing bur ashes.


Is that "Burned to death", or "Killed by smoke inhalation"?


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Phred]
    #4534407 - 08/14/05 05:57 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Since the cause of death is purely speculative, then it is possible that the name of the article is or is not correct. It's not out of the realm of possibility that being held down on burning hot pavement for 20 minutes without a shirt killed him, or that somehow the security guards crushed his windpipe or otherwise suffocated him. Until we know this is all just speculation.

However, for speculation you seem quite sure that he definitely didn't die from the burns, seeing as you continuously said:

Quote:

"Burned to death" means the cause of death was by burning. The guy wasn't burned to death. He probably received some burns from the hot tarmac. But the burns weren't what killed him.




Quote:

Did the security guards burn him to death? Nope.




Quote:


No Wal Mart security guards burned anyone to death.




I guess the only person who will conclusively settle the cause of death is the coroner, but the point of my post is that I wasn't sure why you speak so conclusively without actually knowing.


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OfflineVex
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Phred]
    #4534493 - 08/14/05 06:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe he wasn't technically burned to death, but the exposure to heat most likely cooked him a little bit. I read in another article that he went into cardiac arrest, so maybe the burning (for 20 minutes) heated up his body so much that his internal organs failed. First he stopped breathing and then he went into cardiac arrest. Maybe the excruciating pain even sent him into shock or something. Whatever the case may be, some of the witnesses seemed to think that his continuous exposure to the scalding hot pavement directly resulted in his death.

I wonder how hot the asphalt was? 130 degrees? 140 degrees? I've walked barefoot on asphalt in mid summer and it will burn your feet if you don't get moving.

I feel bad for the guy and i hope his family gets a shitload of money from walmart. I wonder though if it will be settled or if it will go to court? This guys family has a really strong case with all the witnesses, the cruel treatment, and the apparent failure to attempt CPR when it was realized he wasn't breathing. They could, and should sue walmart for employing such crazy bastards. I've seen some of these walmart security guys, and some of them do look mean. They look like 'almost' cops that didn't make the cut. Maybe that was the case with these particular walmart guards. That would explain a little about why they were such assholes.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Ravus]
    #4534574 - 08/14/05 06:43 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

The reason I'm so certain he wasn't "burned to death" is that as I have pointed out already, it takes a lot to burn someone to death. It's not something that can happen in the space of twenty minutes through lying on the pavement of a parking lot in summertime.

I have no doubt it was painful. I have no doubt the security personnel acted inappropriately. There is certainly enough there to charge them with -- at the minimum -- reckless endangerment.

But if this report is followed up and the coroner's report ever made public, it will be found that the guy died of a stroke or an embolism or suffocation or a drug overdose or some combination of the above -- not that he was burned to death.

What actually occurred is bad enough -- there's no need to drag it into the depths of ridiculousness by fabricating some exaggerated headline for it.




Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: man burned to death by wal-mart security guards [Re: Phred]
    #4534594 - 08/14/05 06:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

First Wal-Mart runs Mom and Pop stores out of town, then they use shady tactics with their employees, and now they are killing people? What next? Will they raise their prices? Will they stop greeting Wal-Mart shoppers at the door?


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