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Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
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    #4527898 - 08/12/05 09:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The hook is your desire to be approved by others. The bait is any kind of reward. The minute you go for the bait, the game is playing you. You are no longer playing the game. You get serious.

"Zen is the game of insight, the game of discovering who you are beneath the social masks."
Reginald Blyth

Zen encourages us to recognize the transitory nature of reward and loss and remain awake to choice. It reminds us that we are not pushed around by society as much as we are by our own emotions. After all, through the ages, there have been many political and economic systems. None have yet, nor ever will, give man his freedom. It is not the system that enslaves man but himself. As the Hindu classic, the Bhagavad-Gita instructs: "All living creatures are led astray as soon as they are born, by the delusion that this relative world is permanent. This delusion arises from their own desire and hatred." [We might equate desire with envy, and hatred, really self-hatred, with shame.]

From the perspective of Hindu cosmology, we could say that, ultimately, the game is simply the play of maya [illusion] and that our [or any] society's game is but a little game within this great game of maya. Careers [social roles and duties], in turn, are games played within games of maya and society. This goes on and on like a Chinese box; inside one game is another and another and another. Zen would say that since we find ourselves in all these games, we might as well accept that we have chosen to play.

At any level where you have denied choice, you have seriousness, unfunness, stuckness. You've gotten involved in a game and the idea of needing an outcome - a prize, title, or reward. You desire to become the chosen one [one of the chosen few] and to forget you are the chooser. If you are into forgetting, then you think life is FORGETTING titles and rewards. More, more, more. The more addicted you are to getting titles, the more stuck you become on the idea that you aren't good enough without them. It's only your attachment to [conventionally defined] winning that can make you feel like a loser. Trust that you are good enough, and you don't have to spend your life proving that you are.

Remember, titles are abstract, but life is living. Titles were won in the past in hope of exercising the power they grant in the future. Life is here and now. Titles focus on differentiation. Life is a unified field. While titles can be extended, they cannot grow. Life grows. Life is FOR-GIVING Life. Life gives naturally, endlessly, the way a plant gives its bounty of food, and yet in the seed, nothing is lost.

If you realize it's a game AND CHOOSE TO BE AWAKE, you can be in the world and not of it, with or without titles or ridicule. You can play "winning" or "changing the social game" without getting serious, without losing your playfulness. The truth is, we always have a choice. As Albert Einstein said, "While it is true that the inherently free and scrupulous individual may be destroyed, such an individual can never be enslaved or used as a blind tool." It's always up to the individual to choose his destiny.

"Never for a moment do we lay aside our mistrust of the ideals established by society, and of the convictions which are kept by it in circulation. We always know that society is full of folly and will deceive us in the matter of humanity. It is an unreliable horse, and blind into the bargain. Woe to the driver if he falls asleep."
-Albert Schweitzer

It may occur to you that alot of people aren't going to get free of envy and shame or get hip to choice any time soon. They will be pretty serious and probably not much into playing with you. In the meantime, you may want to work on changing the rules of the game, or on taking care of people who get lost in the shuffle. You may decide to acquire a particular title so that you can use the accompanying power and deference towards these ends or others.
Remember, it does not have to be a certain way. It can be any way you want to play.

From awareness, there are lots of ways to play. Here are a few:

Game 1: You can play "Win the Game," without taking it seriously.

Game 2: You can play "Retreating from the World," without taking yourself too seriously.

Game 3: You can play "Taking Care of Others," without getting maudlin, uptight, burnt-out or serious.

Game 4: You can play "Making Social Change," without getting maudlin, uptight, burnt-out or serious.

Game 5: You can play "Professional Waker-Upper," the true poet, artist, mystic, without taking yourself too seriously.

You're welcome to add to the list.

"The life of Zen begins, therefore, in a disillusion with the pursuit of goals which do not really exist - the good without the bad, the gratification of a self which is no more than an idea, and the morrow which never comes."
-Alan Watts.

Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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The Minstrel in the Gallery

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Re: Bait..Line...Hook.... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4527909 - 08/12/05 09:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What a great post. Thanks. :thumbup:

"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
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Re: Bait..Line...Hook.... [Re: Icelander]
    #4529429 - 08/13/05 08:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I agree in fact I have saved this and will making a study out of it

What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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Re: Bait..Line...Hook.... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4529570 - 08/13/05 10:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey thank you for sharing. I could really help myself by using this. I take my weaknesses way too seriously, and it keeps me from being able to overcome them.

Edited by RedNukleus (08/13/05 10:13 AM)

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Miner for truth and delusion
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Re: Bait..Line...Hook.... [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4536186 - 08/15/05 01:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This topic really inspired me to do some thinking and to share it with someone very special in my life. It actually started off with a big miscommunication as to how we were each interpreting it which almost lead to an argument, but then lead to a profound realization for me. I've seen it happen here quite a few times and thought that you all might like to see what happened. Sorry, it's fucking long! And I started saving it in the middle of our conversation and it gets kinda convoluted at the end because we had several emails going at the same time and I tried to paste them together as best I could to make sense of them. This is a copy of our emails:

Continuing my thoughts on: When you said, "Well that
must have sucked" that I had put my love life to bed,
so to speak, and went on to live a practical life instead...
And the thing with that that I want YOU to know, is that
it proves that life is full of surprises and if you just
surrender a little bit and play the "game" , it will sort of
unfold as you go along w/ out any real effort. And that's
not to say you shouldn't put forth any, but in my case,
I certainly wasn't looking to find love again, after I had
let go of what I thought was THE one. My point being,
wait a minute. What was my point again??? Oh yeah!
That life DOES suck sometimes, but you don't have to
let it suck YOU in and create feelings of self doubt,
insecurity, etc...because YOU know who you are. Life

This makes sense(for a normal person), but I guess the thing is that I've lost track of who I am. I mean, I KNOW what my values are and morals and stuff, but I'm so wishy washy on everything else. I guess it's more of a confidence thing...maybe? I've lost track of my ability to deal with the things life throws at me. No self-confidence=self doubt?? I feel afraid of life right now....

"I've lost track of my ability to deal w/ the things
life throws at me"...That's what the therapist will
help you with. She'll provide you with the "tools".
And then life won't seem so scary.

I feel that this is getting away from the root. Not anything tangible, but just a feeling. But, It may be like the bad trip that I had. I wanted to dive right in and see the light, but didn't have the right tools to deal with it. I guess I always think that I'm prepared to see the truth, but it's finally sinking in that I have to be armed with the right equipment before it's shown to me for it to have the desired effect.


But I'm so smart.....
Seriously. I DO think that I'm armed, but that my armament has been put away and I don't know how to use them anymore...I think that this is what makes me so frustrated. It's like having a gun but keeping it in the closet when someone breaks into your house. I KNOW that it's in there, I mean I OWN it, but when you tell the cops "I don't know why he didn't run away, I HAVE a gun!" and he says "well, you left it in the closet, dipshit!" I just take for granted that because I own these tools, I know more than I do and now see that I have to dust them off and actually use them to do any good. HOW DEGRADING!!!!!

What a perfect way to put it! See, you're getting there!

You know, I just had the most humbling thought. As much as I want to forget labels and THINK that I don't know anything, I actually BELIEVE deep down that I'm superior to most people when it comes to deep thinking/emotional stuff.(except for you, that's why I respect you so much) I mean look around, I probably AM superior to a lot of people in this aspect, but that's not the point. It was my THINKING that I didn't think that way that's the point. I thought that I was above that and just had it thrown in my face that it was an ego-based delusion. It's the way that I desire to be and had convinced myself that I was, but I guess not. THIS is what a mushroom trip does to me!! Things that I actually believe that I believe are thrown in my face as not being the truth at all. No wonder all my trips are "bad" ones!! I'm completely full of shit! It's pretty cool to have it happen while straight though. It's a lot less intense to realize that your unenlightened while sober!

One last thing...If you surrender just a little bit, and sort of
go w/ the flow AND you're armed, life will take you
EXACTLY where you are supposed to go! You can either
choose to go kick and screaming, or peacefully.

Just like with psychedelics!!

I wouldn't know...

I wouldn't either!! That's my problem!! I realize now that I have a very high opinion of myself in a very bad way. It's been so hidden from me!! My superior-feeling ego had disguised itself in the perfect way for me....as an unassuming ego! Good LORD! THIS is something else that I have to aspire to now!!
WoW! This has been very enlightening for me! It sucks to realize this, but it's good because I have to realize it to actually deal with it and be the person that I want to be.

Something that you said really struck a chord...and I wish
I had the last few emails back so I could remember
verbatim, but it was something to the effect of feeling
superior to people who didn't think as deeply as you...
and it occurred to me that that was YOU being
self confident! People actually DO think as deeply as
you do, you just don't surround yourself w/ those kinds
of people often enough. So when someone like myself
or the people on your trip come along, people who think
the same way you do, it stimulates your mind and
opens up dialog that brings out who you really are
deep down. Or even who you want to be for that matter.
It's a reflection that you're seeing of yourself through
someone else's eyes.

Here, I saved it all together to maybe send in in reply to that post you were reading to show what reading it and sharing it with you had done for me. Maybe I confuse self-confidence with egotism (which I despise), because when I realized that I felt superior it made me feel like shit...

That's why I wanted to make the distinction for you...
I guess my point is that it's important to surround
yourself w/ people who really KNOW you because
then you are more capable of being the real YOU!
You'll be more confident and you won't need as
much artillery. The "right" person will bring out
the best in you and people who don't really
know you, deep down, will just bring out
YOUR insecurities...

Bravo to you!!
I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy!

Seriously! I knew that the "label" that you had put on
it was making you feel bad about yourself and I just
put a different label on it for you, so you could see it
differently...(put a different spin on it) So you could see
yourself the way I see you.

You're right. I realize now that I felt so open when I was with those people. They were as open-minded or more so than I am and I didn't feel like I had to protect myself or put up a guard of any kind. That's a really good point because everyone around me is so fucking close-minded that I constantly feel as if I'm gonna be judged for my feelings or actions and I have to keep them inside and then I judge myself according to their fuck-up standards!! What a mess!!

EXACTLY! Contributes to you feeling exhausted and
drained all the time...

and feeling like a fraud! But "The "right" person will bring out
the best in you and people who don't really
know you, deep down, will just bring out
YOUR insecurities..." That tells me that I have to change so that I don't have to depend on others to make me feel good about myself. I want to be able to do that independent of anyone else.

Definitely...you have to work on yourself, but I'm just
saying to surround yourself with people who are gonna
lift you up as opposed to constantly challenge your
self esteem. Anyway...that's all I wanted to say. I just didn't want you to think that all of your thoughts were "ego"
fueled and wanted you to maybe look at it a different

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna

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The Minstrel in the Gallery

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Re: Bait..Line...Hook.... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4537002 - 08/15/05 08:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This thread needs a bump. It's  :thumbup:

"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: Bait..Line...Hook.... [Re: Icelander]
    #4537737 - 08/15/05 01:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)


Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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irregular verb
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Re: Bait..Line...Hook.... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4537825 - 08/15/05 02:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

who is playing?

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Re: Bait..Line...Hook.... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4538162 - 08/15/05 03:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

no player, no game? :smile:


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