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Offlinecuriouskittin
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Ephedrine
    #4526617 - 08/12/05 03:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I took some ephedrine today with the purpose of giving me a little energy for work (I'm working practically non-stop till sunday night)- I waitress so I'm running around all night and such and I don't really like drinking coffee while I'm at work, I just drink water. To my surprise its given me a slightly tweaky feeling, almost like adderall. Anyone else take legal stimulants for work or general enhancement, or know anything intersting about epedrine? Just curious.


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OfflineI2ancid
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: curiouskittin]
    #4526628 - 08/12/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

ephedrine has slightly more euphoria than pseudoephedrine in my experience.


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I went to st thomas and camped out ontop of the island... Despite my entire family being poor all my life, the land is priceless.
I was chased by haitians in the main city charlotte amalie when my girlfriend and I got some cocaine for free in a bar and mixed it with alcohol, to form a stronger drug. With such confidence at 2am, we walked the 4-5 or so miles down to the beach where the african slaves lie like lions waiting on tourist prey.


The war isen't on drugs... the war is on the causes that influence people to abuse drugs. drug-abuse is a by-product of the system and much like radioactive waste occurs from utilizing nuclear power, drug addicts with drug-problems will need to be properly disposed of, like the decaying radioactive waste produced from nuclear energy. -i2ancid


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: curiouskittin]
    #4526766 - 08/12/05 04:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Structurally, ephedrine is very similar to amphetamines and methcathinone. It raises blood pressure and heart rate, and makes you feel good...it's essentially a legal amphetamine.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

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But makes for the heaviest sword"
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Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleSubGen1us
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: curiouskittin]
    #4526897 - 08/12/05 05:19 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

it puts u in a zone where u are very focused and dedecated.
the high makes me feel empty wich i could do without.
Good for working out too.


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OfflinePowerTrip
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: curiouskittin]
    #4526993 - 08/12/05 05:42 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Ephedrine is a great substance when used properly. It is very popular with bodybuilders because it increases fat metabolism while helping to preserve lean muscle at the same time. For the fat burning effect it should be taken with 200mg of caffeine. Caffeine combined with ephedrine will also increase the energy boosting effect. It is actually quite safe, despite what FDA propaganda may lead you to believe. It has been used for thousands of years in Asian countries. The only time you will run into a problem is if you try to take a massive dose, or if you a predisposed to having some sort of cardiovascular problems.

One important note though, if you use it regularly the energy boosting effect will diminish. I don't know if it ever goes away completely. I have been using it twice a day for three weeks now and it is still working great for me, although I combine it with quite a bit of caffeine. If you decide to start taking caffeine with it you should start low to determine your tolerance to it. Once you reach a dose of 25mg of ephedrine and 200mg of caffeine you will probably want to stay in that range.


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: curiouskittin]
    #4527626 - 08/12/05 08:29 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

the first time i took maybe 1 or two pills, and they sent me skyrocketting for some odd reason. I was seeing tons of red veiny plantlike things in my vision and was super hyper. im glad it's been made legal again, i'm def. going to have to start using it soon.


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Offlinepshawny
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: dblaney]
    #4530254 - 08/13/05 03:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney18 said:
...it's essentially a legal amphetamine.




I thought ephedrine was banned from being sold in the USA, no? I still have a couple bottles that I bought really cheap from Canada a few years ago.


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Offlineqdissociation
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: pshawny]
    #4530378 - 08/13/05 04:04 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

April 15, 2005 Utah Judge Strikes Down Ephedra Ban
A federal judge ruled in favor of a Utah supplement company and struck down the FDA ban on supplements containing ephedra. The judge sent the case back to the FDA for a determination of what are safe and dangerous levels of ephedrine. The judge determined that ephedra was wrongly being regulated by the FDA as a drug and not a food as required by a 1994 federal dietary supplement law. The judge said the law requires the FDA to prove that a dietary supplement is harmful, rather than having the manufacturer prove it is safe, as is required with drugs. The ruling's final page prohibits the FDA from enforcing the ban on the company's supplements containing 10 milligrams or less of ephedra.




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OfflinePowerTrip
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: pshawny]
    #4530615 - 08/13/05 05:43 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pshawny said:
Quote:

dblaney18 said:
...it's essentially a legal amphetamine.




I thought ephedrine was banned from being sold in the USA, no? I still have a couple bottles that I bought really cheap from Canada a few years ago.




The herb ephedra was banned. They also made some sort of a law stating that ephedrine can't be sold as a dietary "supplement." When you buy it now, it is sold as a nasal decongestant.
This is where I buy mine.


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: curiouskittin]
    #4544502 - 08/17/05 12:59 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think ephedrine is very effective to help boost energy and lose weight.

When ripped fuel still had ephdra in it I dropped about 75lbs in 4-5 months, had a ton more energy, and a positive outlook on life.

Beware of it's amphetamine-like properties, such as crashing down or feeling 'incomplete' on the days you don't take it. It will also lead to a viscious cycle of running you all night, crashing you down, then taking more to 'wake up' the next morning. like amphetamines, your sleeping pattern will be controlled by ephedrine.

Some tips: build up tolerance. I would start a new bottle taking 1 in the am 1 early afternoon. after about 3 days of that it was 2 in the am, 1 in the afternoon, then 2 and 2, then 3 and 2, then 3 and 3. Take at least a one week break between bottles. Take you afternoon dose before 4pm, or you'll be wired all night. And EXCERCIZE, ephedrine is giving you all this energy that needs to be used.

I'm pretty sure the few "heart attacks" that people had was due to neglect. This isn't some magic herb that will melt away the lbs while you sit on the couch and watch TV.

The negative side effects I've experienced are sever insomnia on the days I took it late, or I didn't excercize enough to get all the energy out. I also had seizures and nose bleeds. The first couple days of an off-week I felt lethargic, lazy, and unable to focus on anything. I was also a complete bitch and on edge about everything. That would pass after a couple nights of sleep. I had migraines. I also had really bad leg tremors.

It's been 3 years since I've used ephedrine. After I had lost the weight, I still kept a bottle of it laying around for energy. One night I took 3 at once, and I had no tolerance built up. I passed out into a series of seizures, had leg tremors, and my heart felt like it was going to explode.

Ever since then I don't like stimulants. I have issues with weed, because it raises your blood pressure and increases your heart rate, makes me extremely scared and I think I'm going to have a heart attack. I don't like taking sudafed (pseudoephedrine) because it makes my heart flutter and it scares me. Hell, I get scared if I get a good caffeine buzz.

all I can say is don't abuse it, and make sure you don't have any pre-existing health issues, such as high blood pressure or heart murmurs before starting a serious ephedrine regiment.


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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OfflineD00B
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: StonedShroom]
    #4544652 - 08/17/05 01:28 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

*edit"Ephedra" was banned because of the increase in Meth making/usage...Not really on the few heart attacks that it caused. People were dieing from it since it was made legal for sale in America. The government just blamed the heart attacks for the ban but the dark secret was for the onset of the meth problem. Theyv'e been trying to pass a law since 2000 but no one knew what it was then...Now you see the problem with meth today...

ephedrine HCL is a precursor for making methamphetamine and methcathinone..

If you want the more safer herb that ephedra is made from then take a look at Ma Huang. If taken properly it is alot better for you than the synthetically enhanced ephedra ...

some serious long term illnesses created by ephedra: liver injury, cerebral hemorrhage, and cardiac arrest..

Don't use ephedra on a continued basis it's very dangerous '

Although there are some positive effects of ephedra & Ma Huang...It's sometimes used by people with asthma and works great for that if nothings else seems to work OTC...


Edited by D00B (08/17/05 10:50 PM)


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OfflinePowerTrip
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: D00B]
    #4547635 - 08/17/05 07:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Wow. This is the greatest amount of misinformation I have ever witnessed within a single post.

Quote:

Ephedrine was banned because of the increase in Meth making/usage...Not really on the few heart attacks that it caused. People were dieing from it since it was made legal for sale in America.




First of all, ephedrine has never been banned in the United States. Ephedrine has long been used in over the counter decongestant medicine, and it is very safe and effective. Ephedrine HCL can still be sold legally. What was banned was the herbal equivalent known as ephedra.

Quote:

If you want the more safer herb that ephedra is made from then take a look at Ma Huang. If taken properly it is alot better for you than the synthetically enhanced ephedra ...





Incorrect. Ephedrine HCL is much safer than ma huang or ephedra. There are two reasons for this. One being that the herb contains many other alkaloids other than ephedra which have been shown to cause side effects in some people. The more significant difference is that the dosage of ephedrine contained in the herb can vary so people may end up taking a higher dose unintentionally.

Quote:

some serious long term illnesses created by ephedra: liver injury, cerebral hemorrhage, and cardiac arrest..




This sounds like FDA propaganda. This herb has thousands of years of use in Asian countries with complications being extremely rare. It is actually safer than aspirin.

Quote:

Don't use ephedra on a continued basis it's very dangerous '





Actually, ephedrine becomes safer with daily use. Your beta-2 receptors gain a tolerance to the stimulation from the ephedrine and this results in a decrease of side effects such as racing heartbeat etc. The herb still remains effective for weight loss though, due to its action on beta-3 receptors.

Have you done any real research on this herb or did you just repeat some nonsense you read on a random website?


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


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OfflineD00B
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: PowerTrip]
    #4548781 - 08/17/05 10:44 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Let me indulge you on the real truths about what you have wrote....

Quote:

First of all, ephedrine has never been banned in the United States. Ephedrine has long been used in over the counter decongestant medicine, and it is very safe and effective. Ephedrine HCL can still be sold legally. What was banned was the herbal equivalent known as ephedra.





Yes you are right I put ephedrine down while I meant to put ephedra down...thank for pointing the mistake out, it has been changed...

Quote:


Incorrect. Ephedrine HCL is much safer than ma huang or ephedra. There are two reasons for this. One being that the herb contains many other alkaloids other than ephedra which have been shown to cause side effects in some people. The more significant difference is that the dosage of ephedrine contained in the herb can vary so people may end up taking a higher dose unintentionally.





Now let me delve deeper into this.

When the "stem of the Ma Huang" is properly harvested and dried it has less alkaloids than other parts of the plant and OTC ephedra and ephedrine.  Also the stem of Ma Huang when used properly can actually lower blood pressure as compared to the syntheticly prepared ephedra and ephedrine which have a negative increase in overall blood pressure.  As for the reason of difference in dosage most of that depends on the species of Ma Huang used and the origin of where it grows.  As with any other drug, knowledge of proper strengths and dosage is key when consuming natural herbs...

Quote:


This sounds like FDA propaganda. This herb has thousands of years of use in Asian countries with complications being extremely rare. It is actually safer than aspirin.





It isn't FDA propaganda...The complications were rare because it was used properly! As it implies below:

"The Chinese herbalists long ago believed that Ephedra (Ma Huang) should be taken with other herbs to either increase effectiveness or decrease any side effects. For example, prolonged use of Ephedra can weaken the adrenal glands and therefore reduce the effect of ephedrine. However, licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra) and Panax ginseng, or vitamin C, magnesium, zinc, vitamin B6 and pantothenic acid sustains the adrenal glands and does not hinder the effectiveness of ephedrine. Also, expectorants are used in conjunction with Ephedra when used for cold and allergy-like symptoms (1). In China, Ephedra is mixed with cinnamon, licorice root, and almond to make a cold medicine to relieve head and body aches, coughing, and fever by promoting sweating (2)."

Here's some information useful for those who use it as a dietary supplement:

"Ephedrine suppresses the appetite, but more importantly, it speeds up the metabolism. When food is consumed, some of it is stored as fat while the rest is turned into heat energy. Ephedrine, by stimulating the sympathetic nervous system, increases the amount of heat produced from food (called thermogenesis) and therefore decreases the amount of fat stored (1). This is dangerous knowledge to the person who does not understand that ephedrine alone is not fully responsible for weight loss. Although it can help burn energy, it works better when combined with coffee, tea, cola nuts, or guarana (1). Studies have shown that even aspirin combined with ephedrine proved to be more effective than ephedrine alone. Subjects who had taken only ephedrine have shown more side effects than the subjects who took ephedrine with one of the other substances mentioned above (1). Easy weight loss from a pill is desirable, however, a very dangerous thing if abused. For this reason, the FDA has strict regulations on the sale and use of weight loss and dietary supplements containing ephedrine (2)."

Quote:


Actually, ephedrine becomes safer with daily use. Your beta-2 receptors gain a tolerance to the stimulation from the ephedrine and this results in a decrease of side effects such as racing heartbeat etc. The herb still remains effective for weight loss though, due to its action on beta-3 receptors.





"There are many side effects resulting from an excess of ephedrine. Insomnia, irritability, headaches, nausea, vomiting, difficulties with urination, accelerated heart rate, and muscle twitches are some of the lesser side effects (2). Prolonged use can lead to disturbances in the heart's rhythm, high blood pressure, an amphetamine-like dependency, and eventually heart failure (3)."

Those beta-2 receptors(skeletal muscles) gain a tolerance because of the amphetamine like effects on the body, which also degrades the total effectivesness of the ephedra.  For example the longer you use methamphetamine the less side effects you show and the more easier it is to take on a regular basis.  Also the longer one stays on methamphetamine the less potent it becomes.  Drugs always build tolerance and lessen side effects over time.  The first time you inject heroin it is usually is always related to a side effect of nausea.  But the more you continue to use it, those side effects are less frequent.

If you must use ephedra please read the following website on its use and safety: http://www.holistic-online.com/Herbal-Med/_Herbs/h53.htm

If you want a safe alternative to ephedra then try out Octopamine HCl also known as Norsynephrine HCl.  It is a true non-sedative that occurs naturally in octpi and arachnids.  It affects the beta-3 receptors on the molecular level in adipose tissue and "brown fat".  Octopamine HCl also lowers overall blood pressure and increases positive gut structure and function.  Another thing that Octopamine does that ephedra does not is the downregulation of the function of the drug.  Octopamine never loses it's potency over time thus making it the best suitable for a muscle building weight loss drug.

Quote:


Have you done any real research on this herb or did you just repeat some nonsense you read on a random website?





Iv'e done plenty of research.  I'm a sixth year med student with a minor in herbology and have done many experiments with ephedra and epherdrine and it's effects on humans and mice.  Stimulants and the brain have sparked my interest in the past year.  So iv'e read up on the subject through and through.
If you have any more inquiries just ask..

Why take the extra length and give me a negative comment, we are all here to learn.  I have to commend you though for putting up a good fight :wink: . Nice Job .  Question everything...It's a nice trait

Negativity is detrimental

1. Ephedra ( http://www.natures~herbs.com/ephedra.htm )
2. Ephedra ( http://www.onhealth.com/alternative/resource/herbs/item%2c15989.asp )
3. Ephedra ( http://webmd.lycos.com/content/article/3187.13661 )

O yea I forgot this link it's great.  it has alot of user submitted case studies done with the drug. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ephedrine/ephedrine_health1.shtml


Edited by D00B (08/18/05 02:07 AM)


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OfflineStonedShroom
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: D00B]
    #4550712 - 08/18/05 09:15 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Just because you know how to use google doesn't make you a 6 yr med student.


--------------------
We are not human beings going through a temporary spiritual experience.

We are spiritual beings going through a temporary human experience.



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Offlinediabla
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: StonedShroom]
    #4551023 - 08/18/05 11:52 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

ephedrine gives me muscle cramps big time. i did an eca stack w/ephedrine once. i liked ephedra much better. adderall xr over both though, that stuff hit me harder than ecstasy ever has


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"..the thing is, people are getting hurt and the one thing the meteor shower didn't grace this town with was a superhero. So, in his absense, you're left with me. One girl, on a mission, determined to leave no rock - especially those from outerspace - unturned. My name is Chloe Sullivan, and I'm here to bring you the truth."


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OfflinePowerTrip
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Re: Ephedrine [Re: D00B]
    #4552708 - 08/18/05 08:07 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

None of your links work, aside from the erowid one. Not that I really care what any of those websites has to say about ephedrine. Welcome to the internet. A place where anyone can make any statement they please, no matter who they are. I'm sorry, but I fear you may be wasting your money at whatever college you are attending. Anyone who is studying herbology should be more well informed than to believe that ephedrine is such a dangerous substance. Any over the counter supplement or even food can cause fatalities if abused. All of the deaths which are related to ephedrine usage have resulted from individuals who were in poor health or people who took extreme doses habitually. Drinking too much water has the potential to kill you. Does this make water dangerous and harmful?

I am an athlete. I am in great health and I check my blood pressure and heart rate regularly. I use ephedrine to help preserve lean muscle and enhance thermogenesis during my cutting phases. Even after taking 25mg of ephedrine and 300mg of caffeine, my heart rate stays below 60bpm and my blood pressure is perfect. An individual with an existing condition would likely not be able to make the same claim.


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


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