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Liquid_Silver
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Ego bondage
#4526060 - 08/12/05 10:42 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Can any one explain this well? I have read some on this issue, as I believe I went through this, once upon a time when I was younger. A friend of mine <Thremix> believes he has experienced the separation of his ego with the certain help of an Amazing cactus. What dose Ego bondage mean to you?
*A few things I have seen with my friend* *he seems more and more to slip away from his ego separation. He says to me that "it's like I forget even though I don't want to". It seems to me it could have just been the effect of the drug, and nothing more? He says to me (and it makes sense) "it could be the effect of the drug but the memory is all you need," I wonder if there is more to this? What do you guys think?
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SerioOria
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umm, i think it has somewhat to do with that.. the ego is very confusing because we just dont know what it is or does or how it works. I myself can go into a very similar state (of what u describe) whilst meditating, and when i do drugs it can be overwhelming, but i like it.
I dont know exactly what you referr to ego bondage, do you mean the concept of keeping an ego even though you dont want to?
Quote:
e?go Audio pronunciation of "ego" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g, g) n. pl. e?gos
1. The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves. 2. In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality. 3. 1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit. 2. Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.
thats what it means to me, the ego (ego loss/ego bondage concept) is the consciousness, i think we dont lose it on drugs or meditation.. but it is merely altered or (again, perception is changed more than anything) it is.. somehow moved away from the body, if you know what astral projection is you will know what i am speaking of
-------------------- Live every day like it is your first or Live every day like it is your last My ArT!!
Edited by SerioOria (08/12/05 10:59 AM)
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Gomp
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>I think, Not! :P
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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RedNucleus
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: SerioOria]
#4527816 - 08/12/05 07:21 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Um, in a literal sense I am bound by my ego, because I tend to put myself down and be worried when I tell myself to stop worrying, and other things like that. So, that's my ego binding my potential and oppressing me.
-------------------- Namaste
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OldWoodSpecter
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Quote:
Liquid_Silver said: Can any one explain this well? I have read some on this issue, as I believe I went through this, once upon a time when I was younger. A friend of mine <Thremix> believes he has experienced the separation of his ego with the certain help of an Amazing cactus. What dose Ego bondage mean to you?
*A few things I have seen with my friend* *he seems more and more to slip away from his ego separation. He says to me that "it's like I forget even though I don't want to". It seems to me it could have just been the effect of the drug, and nothing more? He says to me (and it makes sense) "it could be the effect of the drug but the memory is all you need," I wonder if there is more to this? What do you guys think?
So an ego comes to a forum and asks how to get detached from his ego. Perhapse shooting yourself in the head would do it.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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So an ego comes to a forum and asks how to get detached from his ego. Perhapse shooting yourself in the head would do it. _____________________________________________________ Detaching yourself from your ego would leave one unable to navigate this material experience. Better to have a healthy ego that doesn't try to control all experience or insist it is the whole self.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: Icelander]
#4527902 - 08/12/05 07:54 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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you said, detaching the ego from your self..
aren't ego and self the same thing? If you tried to detach ego from self, you would get two pieces of ego
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: you said, detaching the ego from your self..
aren't ego and self the same thing? If you tried to detach ego from self, you would get two pieces of ego
I was responding to your statement of the previous post. The ego is one aspect of the self not the whole self IMO. I stated that detaching the ego would in effect be the death of the self.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: Icelander]
#4527937 - 08/12/05 08:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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if you count subconsciousness and other parts of the mind as "self", then no, ego is not all of it, but subconscious mind is not even aware that it is alive, much less that it is a mind, it is an automated system
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
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I'm curious how you know that the sub conscious isn't aware it is alive.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: Icelander]
#4527974 - 08/12/05 08:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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you mean there is another guy inside my head that is as aware as me as I am of him?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
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Who knows with you.
Just another aspect of self. There may be more. You are most likely not very aware of your sub conscious. But maybe it knows your conscious mind very well.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: Icelander]
#4527988 - 08/12/05 08:31 PM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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or maybe it is like a reflection of me, or a shadow of me, and not a mind of its own.
Or perhapse I am mearly an image projected onto the screen, and the film being projected is my subconsciosuness
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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SerioOria
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: you mean there is another guy inside my head that is as aware as me as I am of him?
basically, if youve ever smoked salvia, you might have experienced him, he isn't that smart, he knows alot but he doesn't do much thinking other than what your body is physically doing at the moment
-------------------- Live every day like it is your first or Live every day like it is your last My ArT!!
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: aren't ego and self the same thing?
Nope, they are not.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Huehuecoyotl
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If you are discussing the Buddhist concept of nirvana, then to be detached from the ego is to not cling to the wants of the self, but use this detachment to acheive clarity of mind. One does not lose the ego, but one does transcend it. This is acheived by knowing the self.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: SerioOria]
#4529292 - 08/13/05 05:20 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SerioOria said:
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: you mean there is another guy inside my head that is as aware as me as I am of him?
basically, if youve ever smoked salvia, you might have experienced him, he isn't that smart, he knows alot but he doesn't do much thinking other than what your body is physically doing at the moment
you can also meet lizard people and guant squids, but it doesn't mean they exist
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
SerioOria said:
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: you mean there is another guy inside my head that is as aware as me as I am of him?
basically, if youve ever smoked salvia, you might have experienced him, he isn't that smart, he knows alot but he doesn't do much thinking other than what your body is physically doing at the moment
you can also meet lizard people and guant squids, but it doesn't mean they exist
Doesn't mean they don't either.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: Icelander]
#4529589 - 08/13/05 08:23 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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it doesn't, but there is a high probability that they don't, because you ARE taking hallucinogenic drugs at the moment, it would be highly unlikely that in between all these hallucinations there is a real lizard man.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
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Depends on how you define real (reel ) now doesn't it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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RedNucleus
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: Icelander]
#4529619 - 08/13/05 08:44 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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yes if you define real as imaginary, then I guess they are real huh. Isn't changing the definition of words convenient?
-------------------- Namaste
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Fucknuckle
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To whom ever............
Ego has never been a study of mine. What I mean to say is that I never really thought about it in the terms I read in here. But I would like to say a few things
Isn't ego the part of the mind that only thinks of what it can get for itself ? Ego never lets the needs of anyone else get involved ? Ego never lets anything go ? Ego always has the goal of " get all you can " ? Ego as far as I see it is the center of self, the foundation of greed, the animal in us. Ego is the beast in us from back before the time of Man found God or God found Man. I understand that Ego has nothing to do with " Love " which for me anyway " Love " is God and God has no Ego. So ego from my point of view is the very obstacle that stands between myself and the truth, God and Love. Ego is the great Vail that blinds us to the truth. The entire goal then is to get away from Ego and move into the truth.
Hum........Me thinks I need to talk about this more
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: Icelander]
#4529662 - 08/13/05 09:12 AM (18 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Depends on how you define real (reel ) now doesn't it.
if there is physical lizard man in front of you, reflecting light into your eyes, then that is real, if it came from your imagination, then it is not real
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Gomp
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S&M
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fireworks_god
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Ego is simply the illusory sense of self that a mind holds. It is not the self, the self is the self. An ego is an aspect of the mind that holds an idea as to who the self is, what the mind identifies with as itself. Its an illusion because the self itself () exists on its own, without need of an identification of itself. The Self is the totality of who you are, and it is constantly changing, as we are constantly interacting with our environment. Any preconception that the aspect of the mind known as the ego holds of who and what the self is and what pertains to it is, in fact, limiting The Self and what form it can take.
I wouldn't necessarily say that having an ego, a sense of self, is an undesireable thing. The real question is what form that sense of self takes and the manner in which we treat that sense of self. For instance, do we hold for ourselves set images of who we are, what we do, what situations we do and do not like, etc., and defend them? Are we addicted to the sense of who we are? Does our sense of self obstruct our actual experience of The Self? Are we open to reality and do we directly perceive it, or do we get caught up in thought processes of the ego that limit our awareness and prevent us from being ourselves?
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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OldWoodSpecter
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and from where are you speaking all this? experience? books? talks?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Fucknuckle
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Oh so an Ego is liken to the wrapping paper on a X-mas gift ? What you are really, is hidden under the wrapping. What you represent to others and yourself is not always really you. What is really you tends to be hidden away waiting for the great unveiling, unwrapping the exposure to you. You is not you. You is You wrapped up in the paper of what you have learned by living, interacting to your environment. You really is simple and the "you" you know is a result of a complex system of teachings from outside you. In order to see the real gift one must be willing to rip the paper off self.............. Scary
I think that is exaclty what I said in my first post. Ego is the wall between ourselfves and God, love and the real purpose of what we are doing here in this world. The path past Ego is what makes Humans special and different from the beasts. We have the ability to see past our noses and move into th eunseen. To grab onto Faith, Love and what is really important. Not making childeren, Eating, having Ego battles with our fellow man. But to get past our selves and into others........... TO love is to leave Ego behind
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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OldWoodSpecter
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that is ego as in pride..
it's not the ego that we are talking about
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Fucknuckle
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Ok so what is the difference ? What are we speaking of then ? Is not pride connected to all that we have ever learned ? You mean pride in the sense of " I am great at this or that "
Fill me in on what your saying don't leave me hanging......
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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OldWoodSpecter
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Ego is the part of mind that percieves itself as a living being. For example, a computer does calculations, but it does not know of its own existence because it has no consciousness. When you are in a coma, your mind still is alive, there is activity, but your ego is dead, and you do not experience anything. Ego is this point of view, perspectvie from wich things take place, the conscious mind.
when you are unconscious, like in deep dreamless sleep, your ego is gone, but your mind still works. when you die, both go away. but to you the loss of ego and death are one and the same thing because you experience them both the same way: you don't
Ego as in pride is a strong sense of selfimportance and an attachment to a certain figure that you percieve yourself to be. For example, being a pilot, and thinking of yourself as a great pilot doing everyday stuff is this ego (the alternate use of the word) This ego dissapears in situations where you are passive, for example sitting in a park listening to birds and enjoying peace. In those moments your pride is gone, and you do not percieve yourself as being one of those human roles: a great card player, or the best butcher or whatever, you are striped away from your uniform, you have no pride and you don't matter to yourself anymore.
this two meanings have nothing to do with one another.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
Edited by OldWoodSpecter (08/13/05 10:10 AM)
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Fucknuckle
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Sounds like I wouldn't want to live without either one.
The first example of Ego and living without it sounds like being very dead.
The second ego is the one I need to make me feel better when I have completely failed or missed the boat.
Not that needing my petty ego is what's best but it is my very best friend and knows me the best........... outside God that is.
But I do understand what you said. Thanks. Ego is the shell from which I live in this plane of existence. It is the walls from which I was born in to. Ego as you explained it is being a human living in a human world and realizing your human living in a human world. Without it I would be a bag of pond scum
This way of looking at Ego seems like a waste of time.......... er maybe that is not what I mean
So the entire point is what then ? I mean, if one is deal with this type of Ego. What or where or why ? would you want to detach yourself from this ? What would be the end result ? Finding our true purpose or true self ?................ Love and God ?
See I still don't see the great question or the answer in pursuing this type of " Ego "
The only conclusion I can see is to find the true purpose to living breathing humans
Hum...........
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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redgreenvines
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let's say you have some animal instincts and body experiences some learned reflexes and memory all feeding into your consciousness at the same time.
where is the ego in that?
let's say you have connections with other people and they have them with you, like chapters in your book of life, you can look them up and savour or take note of what has previously gone down.
let's say someone dies and their book is removed from the shelf never to be returned, but their pages in our books are still there - it pulls on our (book) spines we are torn by grief but do not give up on our memories.
where is the ego in that?
mostly what people call ego is the piggish part of our animal instinctive behaviour, and ego loss on drugs weakens reflexive behaviour and instinct. it is temporary, unless it is dulling or in some rare cases some insight is gained and people work to rise above habit and instinct to be better humans.
-------------------- _ 🧠 _
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OldWoodSpecter
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Quote:
Fucknuckle said: Sounds like I wouldn't want to live without either one.
The first example of Ego and living without it sounds like being very dead.
The second ego is the one I need to make me feel better when I have completely failed or missed the boat.
Not that needing my petty ego is what's best but it is my very best friend and knows me the best........... outside God that is.
But I do understand what you said. Thanks. Ego is the shell from which I live in this plane of existence. It is the walls from which I was born in to. Ego as you explained it is being a human living in a human world and realizing your human living in a human world. Without it I would be a bag of pond scum
This way of looking at Ego seems like a waste of time.......... er maybe that is not what I mean
So the entire point is what then ? I mean, if one is deal with this type of Ego. What or where or why ? would you want to detach yourself from this ? What would be the end result ? Finding our true purpose or true self ?................ Love and God ?
See I still don't see the great question or the answer in pursuing this type of " Ego "
The only conclusion I can see is to find the true purpose to living breathing humans
Hum...........
the second definition of ego, is that shell you are talking about, a mask that you wear in society.
but the first one is the being itself that is INSIDE the shell, it is what we consider to be a human being, a person. Mind without the ego is a plant, alive and reacting, but more like a biological cell than like a consciosuness.
Mind that this is my own interpretation of what ego is, like most things from most people on this forum, I made it up accoarding to my internal logic.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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OldWoodSpecter
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: let's say you have some animal instincts and body experiences some learned reflexes and memory all feeding into your consciousness at the same time.
where is the ego in that?
let's say you have connections with other people and they have them with you, like chapters in your book of life, you can look them up and savour or take note of what has previously gone down.
let's say someone dies and their book is removed from the shelf never to be returned, but their pages in our books are still there - it pulls on our (book) spines we are torn by grief but do not give up on our memories.
where is the ego in that?
mostly what people call ego is the piggish part of our animal instinctive behaviour, and ego loss on drugs weakens reflexive behaviour and instinct. it is temporary, unless it is dulling or in some rare cases some insight is gained and people work to rise above habit and instinct to be better humans.
If this is what people mean when they say they lost their ego, then I don't think it is impossible at all.
I just think that it is impossible to lose the real sense of self and experience (consciosness) and say it was a great experience because the loss of real Ego (not ego as in a part of personality, but ego as in the conscious mind itself) would be nothing more or less than falling unconscious, and that is not something you can experience because you are not there
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: If you are discussing the Buddhist concept of nirvana, then to be detached from the ego is to not cling to the wants of the self, but use this detachment to acheive clarity of mind. One does not lose the ego, but one does transcend it. This is acheived by knowing the self.
After egodeath I still had my ego about as much as before sometimes (but got a bit more of a hippy) the difference is that I now know when it is trying to take over and can correct it before/right after it takes over.
With time it might be possible to always know before letting it take over, sometimes I can, but not always.
I always know when it takes over now, every single time. Realize it right after.
An awareness of your ego you could call it. It is like a separate me, that tries to do what I don't want.
By thinking positive and seeing that we are all the same and realizing I have everything in common with everybody, and seeing the good in people I can keep it down somewhat.
bwt. it is very hard to write anything without the ego taking over much easier to talk without it taking over for some reason
The reason I don't want the ego to take control again is that I can't see the truth then, I like feeling one with everybody I meet and seeing nature this way - like a miracle. (yup very hard to write this without sounding egoistical to others:P)
before LSD egodeath:
60lbs overweight suddenly,only enjoyment in life was spending fridays,sat,sundags doing homework and working 16 hours a day
only enjoyment in life was overeating,overconsuming and buying stuff
after LSD egodeath:
love every part of myself, every part of the world, my plants, my birds (pets), my family,friends,nephew , nature
feel free,happy each day for the first time in 15 years.
started singing,dancing,playing guitar,drawing
got a new job that I enjoy more than the old one where I got paid 3 times as much
but I realized that I am no better than anyone else actually I realize no matter what experience I have had, somebody has had it before me, and will in the future too we are all the same, but couldn't see it before egodeath now I see it everyday, with every person I meet
Peace
Edited by lessismore (03/04/13 05:24 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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I'm sorry your ego died. When is the funeral?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Would rather throw a party than a funeral
But it was about a year ago, think I died 2-3 times in one acidtrip.
It is very personal to me, so I only shared as I thought it was relevant
Egodeath is pretty common with psychedelics, but took me around 150 trips to get to it (and didn't even believe it at first, people around me noticed it more than I did, was a different person)
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liquidlounge
Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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You were probably maturing.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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I am not sure if it was the acidtrip or the shroom trip
I had one of both where I just wen't out, and felt love for everything
since that day the love feeling has stayed, for everything and I can see myself/own experiences in everybody I meet, and somehow know then before I meet them or so it feels.
and am a new person (but I guess psychedelics make you a new person each time)
but that time changed every part of me.
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liquidlounge
Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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They can alter your mind so you gain insight for sure.
I think you were taking these drugs whilst in a momentum in your life and thus it made such an impact?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
mio said: Would rather throw a party than a funeral
But it was about a year ago, think I died 2-3 times in one acidtrip.
It is very personal to me, so I only shared as I thought it was relevant
Egodeath is pretty common with psychedelics, but took me around 150 trips to get to it (and didn't even believe it at first, people around me noticed it more than I did, was a different person)
I've noticed it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Yage
Z
Registered: 12/14/11
Posts: 512
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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150 trips for an ego death? Now your really fuck huh?
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Ego bondage [Re: Yage]
#17901696 - 03/04/13 08:55 AM (11 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Yage said: 150 trips for an ego death? Now your really fuck huh?
egodeath = new operating system that supports ufo's - Terence Mckenna :P
But yes, around 130-150 , lost count some years ago
the funny thing is that ego death cannot be defined really, once you go there there is nothing happening usually , it is the transformation that often follows that is noticed sometimes
but I think new operating system / new person(ality) fits well still, it changes every part of 'you' usually
almost feels like I am 2 persons sometimes, my ego and myself without the ego, and they are fighting for control sometimes
I don't get what you're talking about though... "now you're really fuck huh?" makes no sense
Edited by lessismore (03/04/13 09:00 AM)
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