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InvisibleELECTRIC
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Fantasmagorije
    #4521193 - 08/11/05 05:42 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

After a few days of contemplation, I would like to bring to the table some of the things that I like to think of from time to time.  My willingness to share, was inspired by Markos in a previous thread. 

I cannot write this completely in one sitting, and so, I will return to this thread periodically and make additions if there is interest.




I welcome questions and comments; they will, hopefully, help me tie loose ends and perhaps spawn memory of things that I have thought of before and just not remembered at the present moment.


I will be honest, and if I really don't know the answer to a question, I will simply state that I don't know...





In retrospect, I'm sure that many, if not everyone, can appreciate the nakedness feeling while one's thoughts are under scruitiny.  Please keep that in mind while interacting  with me in this thread.






The following is a contribution of what I believe applies to me.  Due to my understanding of the nature of chaos, some points may vary with your personnal opinions. 

However, if any of it overlaps with your thinking, then we are flying in parallel to one another, even if, in a weaving formation.







So, allow me to begin... (Please note- I have made minor revisions to what I have previously written)









Markos:"Inner experience is the true source of religious experience, not mere programming."


I agree with this statement, especially if the programming that is acquired  is not adequately complete.


Programming comes from one's outer environment, and since it is, as far as I can see, finite in nature, then the programming cannot ever be complete when a quest for some kind of a source is on the agenda.





Although, I do not believe that the inner vantage IS the source, it is, however, in my personnal belief system, the route out, towards something more complex.





I think that some paradoxes are observed when one is looking towards the more complex when some programmed vantage points are utilized.





Even myself, I have been slowed to a crawl by programmed paradoxes.  It's not easy to keep an open mind when seeming roadblocks hinder passage forward.





Often, one is told how to observe; and such programming can hinder, or limit at best,  one's vision.










Markos: "One can similarly experience Eternity within a few minutes of linear time. It is another paradox. Time and Eternity are two separate ontological conditions which exist simultaneously."




Time is within eternity, and has a finite limit relative to eternity... So I'm agreeing that they exist similtaneously. I would even go as far as to say: that they exist in parallel.





So how could it be, that hours of eternity equate to a few minutes of linear time?




Experiencing a segment of eternity within moments of linear time, in my mind, is a false paradox.



It is not a paradox at all... if things some were already determined and if you also existed outside of observed linear time... as an extension concept.




Check this out.





Although I could illustrate this on paper in the fraction it's going to take to explain it, I'll do my best to keep this as to the point as possible.




Imagine, if you will, two fluids; one sitting ontop of the other. Now picture a plane flying [the plane represents one's current focus] in the bottom fluid, in quite close proximity of the above fluid.


The bottom fluid represents pre-deternined linear time, in parallel to eternity, which is above it.

By pre-determined, here in this case, I mean it to be synonymous to diffusion.  If anyone would require a further explanation of what I mean by the diffusion concept, just ask.





As the plane travels through the linear time, you go off into a tangent [think of it as getting lost in one's thoughts]. For illustration purposes, think of a loop-de-loop through the above layer.




No matter how long it takes for the loop-de-loop to finish, if it returns to the exact same point where it started, even if it took hours for the loop to complete, there would be no notice of anything out of the ordinary.


Actually, if you picked up some thought's along the way of the loop, within returning to your original spot in the linear time, you'd get this ' sudden idea out of the blue ' phenomenon.





But what if you overshot the loop slightly past your starting point?





You'd, then, have been lost in thought for a bit, without even realizing what was going on around you.




That's precisely when the teacher goes: "Alright Johnny, why don't you come up to the black board and give us the answer..." :eek:





Now suppose that you re-enterd your plane into the bottom layer slightly before the point where you began you loop?


You'd have to go through a small segment, in the bottom layer, all over again... A Deja-Vu.





Keep in mind, that the only way for this not to be a paradox, is if some things are, in fact, pre-determined.




And as you leave the bottom layer, relative to you, things are put on pause... Time stops.

This implies travelling relatively quickly...  It's the only way that I've learned that things around you stop.



But a general predeterminism concept would allow you to pick up where you left off.. No matter how long you were gone.



Now, it seems contradictory, but the lower layered bundle, as it unfolds, in a specific manner relative to itself, even if, through apparently random chaos, would remain unfolded exactly how you had last remembered it...





Like a memory.




Travel back into your memory, and odds no longer apply. It's already a done deal. Hence everytime you come back, or 'snap back to reality',you have a secure "landing pad" to re-join yourself, with your more physical self.






Markos: "Way cool but, linear [space-]time seems to have threads of determinism and free-will comprising the fabric, which complicates your well-explicated model (which was great, BTW). Also, once one steps outside of space-time into Eternity, no thoughts will take place because (1) Eternity constitiutes an indivisibility, a unity, a singularity of awareness (at least by NeoPlatonic, Vedic, and other high falootin' theological notions), (2) the aspect which can be aware of Eternity is the 'spiritual' rather than the 'psychic' aspect of ourselves, also a unity which transcends thought, form, any differentiation because it is also a unity (our Microcosm in synch with the Macrocosm - Atman with Brahman).

I appreciate your model. Egyptologist Bob Brier was a parapsychologist trained by and co-authored with J.B. Rhine at Duke University. He wrote a little book entitled Precognition and Philosophy of Science: An Essay in Backward Causation that your example reminded me of (Bob was my professor in parapsychology in the 70s).

Aldous Huxley called the human mind "amphibious." He thought, as I do, that our mind can identitfy with the body and its senses, feelings, activities, and it can identify with the spirit which seems to mean a dimension (not a substance) of the human 'being' which is a Microcosmic unity 'in the image and likeness of God' including eternality. I use the Gnostic and Alchemical tripartite nature of humankind into body-mind-spirit (salt-sulphur-mercury) to account for these experiential interfaces with Earth-Human-Heaven domains, if that helps to grok where I'm coming from conceptually - a Microcosmic 'trinity' working as One, yet each aspect not confounded with the other two. I'm medieval like that, sorry

Thanks for responding I enjoyed your model!"






I will respond to this addition, by Markos, next; unless there are some tangents that come about from any curious questions or comments.


In the response, I will attempt to write about the seeming paradox involving the coexistance of free will alongside some pre-determinism.


--------------------
Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: ELECTRIC]
    #4523444 - 08/11/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I bet you're pretty pissed no one reads your shit huh. Well try thinking of a better name that fantaoindaeghiofkj. Remember, shroomerites are all burnt out moronicons who really just come here for the hello.jpg swapping.


also, your post reads like a Mars Volta lyrics sheet. In other words, your words are like mental reminders to yourself of what you were thinking. I can't translate. I don't know what the hell you are talking about when you say "programmed paradoxes," etc..

Quit talking to yourself and I'll reply to you thoughtfully.


Edited by RedNukleus (08/11/05 08:39 PM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4524037 - 08/11/05 11:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

lol


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4524170 - 08/12/05 12:21 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RedNukleus said:
I bet you're pretty pissed no one reads your shit huh. Well try thinking of a better name that fantaoindaeghiofkj. Remember, shroomerites are all burnt out moronicons who really just come here for the hello.jpg swapping.




I don't know which hole you emerged from, perhaps the one in your signature (:lol:), but some of us that frequent this fourm are capable of complex thought processes and reading comprehension. :grin:

Quote:


also, your post reads like a Mars Volta lyrics sheet. In other words, your words are like mental reminders to yourself of what you were thinking. I can't translate. I don't know what the hell you are talking about when you say "programmed paradoxes," etc..




Or, in actuality, his words represent the manner in which he transcribes his thoughts. Regardless of whatever reason it is that the words were above your ability to understand, his words are intended as they are to represent his thoughts as he wished to represent them. If he was going to dumb-down his expressions so that any moron could grasp them, then the actual thoughts that are to be represented simply would not be conveyed. A big fuckin' block of wood doesn't really carry an electrical signal in an effective manner. :lol:

Quote:


Quit talking to yourself and I'll reply to you thoughtfully.




In other words, you demand that he fits your requirements and expectations of how someone is to post before you will grace us with a reply that isn't slamming the way that someone else chose to express themself. Why should reality conform to you? :shocked:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4524209 - 08/12/05 12:27 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"you demand that he fits your requirements"

Now. Or else.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4524329 - 08/12/05 12:50 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I am NOT a moronicon, I am an atheist Catholic!  :mad2: BTW, what is that?

Burnt out? OK, you got me there.  :blush:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: Swami]
    #4524391 - 08/12/05 01:03 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I believe that a moronicon is several steps up the evolutionary ladder from and in the same primate branch as the neocon. They have a larger brain case, more efficient brain cells, highly developed frontal lobes (giving improved abilities involving foresight and planning), walk upright and have evolved past the process of clubbing each other to reach agreement.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleELECTRIC
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4525413 - 08/12/05 05:13 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

...And as ELECTRIC contemplated further, his train of thought was suddenly interrupted..


The entity RedNukleus has just slammed right into him, from the left side, with great force.


Out of sheer coincidence, ELECTRIC's center of balance was oriented in such a manner that RedNukleus simply bounced off  and landed flat on the buttocks.





The oddest thing then happened...  RedNukleus immediately got back up, and started "barking".




Barking? 



Well now... attention was certainly brought upon him.




 





fireworks_god: "you demand that he fits your requirements"


RedNukleus: "Now. Or else







[Or else what?]






It was not the first time that a threat had crossed paths with ELECTRIC.



It didn't even take two metronome seconds for "Chief" and "Little Buddy" to begin circling around RedNukleus.





>>> Everyone backed away to a safe distance <<<





ELECTRIC remembered this kind of behavior as it surrounded some other entity with whom he had crossed paths earlier: Spacedragon.





HEY!!!  This must be another one of those kids. Remember what I told you about kids!





With the simple motion of the hand and a *click* of the tongue, "Chief" and "Little Buddy" abandoned their offensive postures.






>>>  With a renewed feeling of safety, everyone returned  <<<







RedNukleus: "I bet you're pretty pissed no one reads your shit huh.



:eek: I had no idea anyone was interested in my shit!!!!


Maybe I should start burying it...  You know the old saying...  "Out of sight, out of mind" :lol:






RednuKleus: "Well try thinking of a better name that fantaoindaeghiofkj.


I apologize for not using English...  I'm not remotely surprised that you couldn't pronounce what I had called this thread.


You needn't worry about the name. 








RedNukleus: "In other words, your words are like mental reminders to yourself of what you were thinking. I can't translate."


That is a pretty good observation.  There is hope for you yet.


However, do not beat yourself if you cannot translate everything that I think.  I may have stated that I was feeling naked, but in reality, I am not completely so.






Rednukleus: "I don't know what the hell you are talking about when you say "programmed paradoxes," etc.."


A query hidden in anger... 

Allow me to define.


A programmed paradox, as I had used the term, is a learned paradox.

In other words, it is something that someone has told you that exists.  If you blindly believe it, then it has become programmed into you.


I encourage you to contemplate and question everything that you hear. 









Gomp laughs out loud!




Hey Gomp!  Nice to see you again!






ELECTRIC looks over..

Fireworks_god, Prosgeopax!  I'm really glad you are both here.  Stay for as long as you like.





Swami....  What a pleasant surprise to be in the presence of such a fine dissector of thoughts.  I detect razor sharpness in your spirit as well.


Feeling a little burnt out?



>>> ELECTRIC hands swami and friends some power drink <<<


This'll put a little spring in yer step...


A toast to friendship!




And as they drank, ELECTRIC's focus seemed elsewhere.  His mind was doing a "loop-de-loop". 





There shall be more to come. Soon.


--------------------
Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: ELECTRIC]
    #4525453 - 08/12/05 05:33 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

You always have a flair for dramatics.. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: Swami]
    #4526238 - 08/12/05 02:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

It was all tongue in cheek. I'm just bustin his balls.

Still, electric, why do you use the word paradox when you are not talking about a paradox?


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InvisibleELECTRIC
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Re: Fantasmagorije [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4526701 - 08/12/05 04:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"Still, electric, why do you use the word paradox when you are not talking about a paradox?"


Good question. Perhaps you are more developed and do not consider that part as a paradox. [..or perhaps I misused the word]


Look at it this way...


From my own vantage, I used to consider the following a paradox:

That, by focusing inwards, you are focusing further out than when you focus outwards.


At the time, I would not grasp how that could be possible.



But with a little more understanding, and because I refused to be limited by such a paradox, I now consider stretching inwardly a further reach than my best attempt at reaching outwardly.



I believe that ANY paradox can be bypassed with a little understanding.

I think that, a seeming paradox is only a hurdle to slow one's motion.



Another paradox was brought to the table by Markos... About experiencing some 'eternity within a few minutes of linear time'.


Paradoxes do sound confusing.


I try to use my imagination to get around the confusion.



A paradox, in my mind, only exists for someone who has not stepped over the hurdle.


And if someone has told you of a particular hurdle, and you believe and agree that it is too big to step over, than that becomes a programmed paradox...

Programmed into you, by someone else.


The beauty of fluidity is that, with a little effort, sometimes you can re-program yourself, and possibly continue past a said paradox.



That is why I encourage the questioning of everything.



...And even if you can't exactly see eye to eye with someone else, it doesn't mean that you are not within each other's vicinities... It means, that relative to one another, you are 'cloaked' from each other's sight.


--------------------
Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.


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