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Shop: Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4520399 - 08/11/05 01:11 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

But if I remember, didn't he get along fine with God for quite a long time? It's hard to make sense of these tales. :confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4520422 - 08/11/05 01:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

So god created something that is part of himself, specifically so that it would not be able to accept him? Is he living vicariously through the part of himself that is Lucifer, because as god, he cannot deny or ignore his own virtues?


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: Icelander]
    #4520423 - 08/11/05 01:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

lol i don't know man, it friggin religion for chrissake

maybe he was fated to turn against god from the beginning
maybe that's the tale of pride, you have to start off without lucifer's knowledge, then you get the knowledge, you think that's all there is, then you turn from god

and lucifer had to go through the process to become lucifer

i'm basically making stuff up now
why, i dont know  :crazy:


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4520435 - 08/11/05 01:20 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i'm basically making stuff up now
why, i dont know 
______________________________

Maybe some one made up the whole thing in the same way. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKairoAnnunaki
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4520438 - 08/11/05 01:21 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
one of the coolest experiences of my life was getting stoned with a hafiz.  he told me this shit-
lucifer was cast out for his pride
he wouldn't bow down to god
he was the brightest of god's creations, he had more knowledge than any other being except god
but he lacked the free will of humans, and out of that, out of refusing to take his place below humans, he was cast out.
and god is love.

what i got from this was that when we have no faith in love, that's lucifer.  it's the same as saying we know everything, because having faith means there's something beyond what we know.

interesting perspective IMO, i don't know how i feel it.




Ok, that was very- very well put... I see your point of view very clear on that. I think that just changed my perspective. Very well put man.

God and Lucifer is for the sane. Keeps the morals in line. :laugh:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: Icelander]
    #4520469 - 08/11/05 01:28 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ice said;

Maybe some one made up the whole thing in the same way.




Isn't that the truth of life  :tongue: :thumbup:

Lets make this from that and that from this and then make it up into this and call it a bed and go to sleep in it and dream...............


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineKairoAnnunaki
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: Icelander]
    #4520484 - 08/11/05 01:30 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Yea, I donno. It created our reality, then I suppose we created time by realization. Other than that, I don't know. I read of the paradox theory on how a reality could exist itself. But since this is a physical reality, and it's obvious that something physical always has to come from something physical.. well, then this reality could only be exist from another. So far that's what I can only know.


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OfflineKairoAnnunaki
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4520520 - 08/11/05 01:37 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I do agree.

But then science my one day prove it not a dream. Like when one called the world round, and they looked at them and said "You're insane, the world is flat we'll fall over the edge." But I do agree with you, well put.


Edited by KairoAnnunaki (08/11/05 01:37 AM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: KairoAnnunaki]
    #4520572 - 08/11/05 01:49 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I never said it wasn't a living dream, like a dream come true, like the imagined realized into matter and form.

In some cases the word nightmare applies as well.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineKairoAnnunaki
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4521176 - 08/11/05 05:27 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

A nightmare.

When I really love something, and like.. I know that it .. I know.. that.. I shouldn't? And I feel lower.

I feel like Lucifer. I feel exactly like him. I feel it inside, and there's a part of me that's like, "No you can't you can't give in to that feeling." And I can't, but it's becoming so overwhelming over the years.

And I seem to be understanding more about why everything is the way it is.

Angels didn't have free will. God gave it to men, Lucifer saw this. He wanted it too. He fell from God for it. He became mad, angry. Does what he does because of this factor. And we're just measly humans caught up in this fucking battle over mind and soul.

...

And that's how I feel. And I don't want to feel it.

Would you give up free will?


Edited by KairoAnnunaki (08/11/05 05:30 AM)


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InvisibleELECTRIC
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: KairoAnnunaki]
    #4521200 - 08/11/05 05:51 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

"He left God's side because he didn't need the love. We're angels part of God? Right? God loved itself. Lucifer looked at himself like the most beautiful angel. That he was more beautiful than God. May not make sense or, I'm missing something.

But he left God's side, he didn't need the love."



Once a child is ready to leave the nest, they are allowed to do so... With no repercussions.

Independence is a normal progression of growth.



I like what Swami pointed out... Something that I also knew...


Lucifer = bringer of the light

Satan = (supposed) prince of darkness


So how can Lucifer = Satan?




Perhaps it's all about a smear campaign?


Rumors become fact, if brought up enough times.


--------------------
Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.


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OfflineKairoAnnunaki
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: ELECTRIC]
    #4521305 - 08/11/05 08:25 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

And it's interesting also how a whole horde of angels also follow him in his footsteps.

If "God" designed an angel to be a bringer of light. Then what Lucifer had done must have surely been "The Light", and "The Light", being "The Truth". Being, "The Truth shall set you free".

Sounds twisted maybe. But I'm still not sure of course.

I come to think though, that both Lucifer and Satan "exists" still, in mythology terms. Both exist. "His image, an angel of light but he, the prince of darkness". Lucifer/Satan containing a truth, but because of his ignorance, holds the power of darkness. He himself, a duality.

I still though do not understand, that if Lucifer did not have free will. Then he must surely have been under "God"'s control completely. In an analogy I think would be right is, my computer that I built doesn't have free will. And it's under my control. But how would it backstab me? Well, by not functioning right, why? Because if everything I did, I knew, it would eventually happen. I knew what I was doing, I knew it wouldn't work. I knew I would fry the motherboard if I turned it on.

But why did I do this? (lol) Well, because that's the only options I had there in front of me. I gave it a shot. So was it then inevitable? It is then, perfection. And "God"'s love to us, that it was inevitable. The only way we could exist with OUR free will in our reality of this physical existence while angels one with "God", is if angels didn't have it at all. Because if they did, and they did fall and all had free will to do what they wanted. I don't believe we would be here right now. That is, in mythology. The "God" gave them a special significant power, Lucifer was just one who shun brighter and was selected as a special. But... then again, if he didn't have free will... and he was after all one with "God"...

Did a part of "God", ask itself to have free will? Would it make sense, that if a power can co exist itself in an un physical reality. That this part of this "God", can ask itself to have free will. And thus, separation begin, realization.

The question.. my question is..

What did Lucifer realize?


Edited by KairoAnnunaki (08/11/05 08:27 AM)


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: KairoAnnunaki]
    #4521795 - 08/11/05 01:46 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KairoAnnunaki said:
He left God's side because he didn't need the love. We're angels part of God? Right? God loved itself. Lucifer looked at himself like the most beautiful angel. That he was more beautiful than God. May not make sense or, I'm missing something.

But he left God's side, he didn't need the love. Therefor, is this what created hatred? He loved himself.




I did not take the time to read this entire thread. So I repeat anyone er sorry.

Love is a two way street. It takes two beings of Love to have a love between them. God did make angels first yes. But he also gave them a free will. It is with free will that love must live in. Without the  choice to love then what have you got ? Nothing

Lucifer all on his own, in his freewill decided. Why should God have all the say in the universe and he decided to try to take the place from God. But the dumb ass forgot one thing while he was lost in his greed. GOD MADE ALL THINGS. :rolleyes:

SO God knew right from the beging in order to be loved he must create beings with freewill............... Problem......... What happens when beings freely reject him, God and Love ? God in order to have order and for the freewill to exist he gave Lucifer over to the underbelly of God, I.E. hell.

It is hard to understand why it is God would allow beings to " Go to hell " to suffer etc. But once the idea of Love and freewill are understood then " Hell " has got to be part of the perfect plan. Without freewill there would be no Love or Hate or heaven or Hell.


So to address your point......... God did create freewill and it is a gift to all beings who know right from wrong. Lucifer did not leave God because he didn't want to be away from love. Lucifer loved his freewill more than the one who gave him his freewill.

Lucifer wanted to be God. And God only wants his creations to love him as he loves them.

God can be anything he wants. He can be emotional,angry, jealous etc...... as we are created in his image right ? So God can be what every he wants. What can I say I am just a lump of dirt he plays with. But all he asks is for us to follow LOVE.


Anyway.........  :heart:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: KairoAnnunaki]
    #4523387 - 08/11/05 08:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

you are the sentence fragment master.


--------------------
Namaste


Edited by RedNukleus (08/11/05 08:18 PM)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: RedNucleus]
    #4524005 - 08/11/05 11:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

personally, i dont mind the sentance fragments.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineKairoAnnunaki
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Re: Lucifer. [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4526911 - 08/12/05 05:22 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry about that. I'm usually tired or stoned when I talk and try to get to points easily but my grammer and stuff is a little off.

Well I can only agree with you there Fucknuckle. Except love is so ... hurting. Especially when you love someone you aren't suppose to love? I donno. *shrug*

But anyways. Thanks for clearing up my mind there, much appreciated and +rating.


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