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OfflineLimelight
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How are you so sure your profound experiences are true?
    #4519259 - 08/10/05 08:30 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Hey, it's hard for me to paraphrase in the title, but I don't mean it in a negative way. When I ask this question below, I am not doubting, I'm not putting down, I'm not saying your stupid, I'm simply wondering just because. I have never said I don't believe anyone that says this, I'm simply trying to learn :smile:
I have heard many people say that after taking a huge dose of lsd or mushrooms (for example chinacat and his thumbprint of lsd), they feel positive that they know what the afterlife is like. I am not putting words in chinacats mouth, but he says that he is (almost?) sure that the afterlife is pure energy and love, and that he is not afraid to die (that is how his trips changed him. he feels confident that he knows what the afterlife is like, and he is not afraid to die). I have heard this statement, or something similar, made by chinacat and many other people on this board.
I am just curious how you feel so sure that it is what the afterlife is like. I mean, doing a huge amount of lsd, where your brain's chemicals change around, huge amounts of impulses and stimuli pour in, and its just a general mind fuck, as compared to being dead where all the pulses of electricity in your brain come to a halt, the chemicals stop flowing.. it seems that they are so different, its like a coincidence that death would be similar to dying again on lsd. I mean, after all, of all the millions of chemicals and things to do to your brain (even ones that haven't been created yet), how could dying be so closely related to a random chemical produced by an arbitrary chemist with a bicycle?
I realize that it is the chemical that MAKES you feel like you're dying, and that it could be like that.. but i know your brain can also play tricks on you, and everything is not always what it seems. I mean every time i have deja vu i could bet my LIFE that i have been there and that has happened before.. yet it never did.
So to rephrase that, I'm wondering how you can be so sure that huge amounts (ego loss and beyond) of psychadelics are similar to what its like after you are dead.
Ps, i havent ever had ego loss, so maybe ill understand when that happens.. but even then, just looking at the 'facts' it seems strange that some arbitrary plant would be the same as dying.
Once again, I'm not doubting :smile: I'm not trying to challenege anyone.. if anything, chinacat has the coolest stories i've ever heard.

:sun:


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"The worst mistake that you can make is to think you're alive when really you're asleep in life's waiting room."


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Offlineleery11
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Limelight]
    #4519268 - 08/10/05 08:35 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

DMT is released while dying (correct me if I'm wrong)

so in many ways a massive comatose kind of acid or mushroom trip would be like what it's like in the final moments of life after you depart from the outer world.

whether that is what life after death as an eternal being is like I'm not sure. Maybe you just trip out for a long time then cease to exist forever, but in my mind you can't have nothingness without wholeness, can't have nonexistence without existence, so it seems that life is indeed somehow eternal and connected just for the sheer sake of us bearing witness to being "alive" right now.

So I guess that's where faith and personal belief come in. If you went the Buddhist way LSD might possibly prepare you for attaining nirvana (if you totally had complete ego loss) as you would be more likely to realize that you were in fact DEAD and would not get caught in rebirth cycles as you could meditate yourself out of existence and into foreverness.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlinesamlernihan1
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: leery11]
    #4519288 - 08/10/05 08:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

im not sure if ive ever had an experience that your talking about but i have had one that literally changed my life. It was from a 3.5g mushroom dose and i learned many things about my life and i saw things from a totally different point of view one that i never thought was ever even possible. Theres not much else to say and it may not be the type of experience your talking about but for me it was the most intense life changing experience in my entire life.


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i could die for you
o this life i choose
im hear to be your only go between
to tell you of the sights these eyes have seen
what i really wana do is turn it into motion beauty that i can abuse


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Limelight]
    #4519300 - 08/10/05 08:48 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

How? I saw/experienced things from my future while on LSD........those things have come true. Again and again I get proof that this is real.


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OfflineLimelight
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #4519310 - 08/10/05 08:52 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
How? I saw/experienced things from my future while on LSD........those things have come true. Again and again I get proof that this is real.




Very interesting... do tell..


--------------------
"The worst mistake that you can make is to think you're alive when really you're asleep in life's waiting room."


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Limelight]
    #4519324 - 08/10/05 09:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

LSD makes your mind understand and believe things. That is all faith is in any form, or whatever you have faith in. if the chemicals in your brain tell you that you believe this is how it is, then as far as your concerned, that IS how it is. I believe that "its all in the mind", and people need to believe in something..no one ever knows if their right about the afterlife...but what I believe will happen, will happen, within reason.

I dunno, tough to explain this one in writing, been answering alot of questions all da and could explain better in words or if I sat down but yeah..maybe you understand what I mean.


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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Limelight]
    #4519354 - 08/10/05 09:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I can't divulge too many details, but I was shown that I was in the hands of God, and that there is a specific task that I'm here to do....and I was lead to the start of my task recently, along with other signs of truth and divine patterns/guidance.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Limelight]
    #4519361 - 08/10/05 09:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I have to go with what my soul feels.  If I do that and just ignore what everyone else thinks, then my conclusion tells me that my profound experiences are as profound or as meaningless as I want them to be. 

Whether or not I'm "making this transcendental experience up" doesn't matter.  The experience was meaningful to me and very personal, and that's all I really care about. 

Everything else takes second fiddle. 

The "proof" is in me.  Only I can be the judge of what it all means.  :smile:


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OfflineLoggy
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: leery11]
    #4519606 - 08/10/05 10:20 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well, in order to offer my opinion/experience on something that cannot be put into words im going to split this post into two parts.

1. I think that a thumbprint of Acid is probly the MOST intense thing you can experience and live to tell the tale. With that in mind, having no fear of dieing is probly not actually the knowledge of death itself. but rather the thought that you have been dead in your mind set, and that is the scariest/insightful/happy thing you will know.

2. its hard for you to imagine and make sense of the stories without ever experienceing it for yourself. even egoloss is an event that insights death, no were NEAR to the extent of a thumbprint but you get an understanding what your in for.

This will probly make ABSOLUTELY no sense to anyone other than myself (partially because of the million spelling mistakes and the complexity of the question asked)


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InvisibleMasonsChild
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Loggy]
    #4519762 - 08/10/05 10:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think you are asking for something that can not be told. I can't say any one experience resulted in it. It's more that you start to notice more and more things, have revolations and pick and chose what you think is real and what you think was just twisted thought. The "It's all in the mind" part very well could be true, but what are we other than what is in our minds.
There are times when you think you figure it all out, then it fades away and you are only left with bits and pieces you start to believe is the truth. Kinda like washing windows when there are pigeons on the roof.
Also the seeing the future, warping into yourself at another point in time, and seeing yourself from a point that isn't from your eyes makes things really hard to figure out. Undescribeable, but helps give you the comfort to not fear leaving this body we are living in now.


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Truckin' ain't for Sally's


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Offlinealsey
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Limelight]
    #4521131 - 08/11/05 04:51 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

i try to be fairly logical about my experiences. my recent ego-death experience, for example; my ego dissapeared and i was in an entirely different state of conciousness. that much i know, but anything beyond that is just my interpretation.

when it comes to matters like afterlife, i still rely on reasoning rather than 'visions'. the visions are incredible in their own right, but i do not believe they can be relied upon for information concerning 'reality'. the level 5 state of conciousness is IMO still based on phenomena, not noumena.


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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: MOTH]
    #4521594 - 08/11/05 12:54 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


The "proof" is in me. Only I can be the judge of what it all means.




Good one. The poster seems to be looking outside of himself for approval. You are the only one that can be the judge for yourself because only you are yourself. Therefore, IMO, you are your own greatest judge. So... Go out and take these monster doses and find out for yourself. You can only try the experiment and see if you are one of those people who come back believing revelations of many kinds. When you get into these very powerful experiences, things like outside authority, judging, what others think, fall away and are seen as pointless or all the same. When you go through these experiences, questions like the posters, seem arbitrary. :sun:

And there is a reason people say you can't explain the psychedelic experience. Because it is an experience not an idea to have. It is something we are all a part of and that is going on all the time. And no matter what anybody says, you can say everything is one but to experience it, well that leaves tracers of knowledge in you. But to not have that experience is a great disadvantage in trying to discuss it. :heart:


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No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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OfflineLazyCrash
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: mecreateme]
    #4521632 - 08/11/05 01:10 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I believe my experiences becuase I know that I'm only one out of thousands here, and probably millions all over have experienced.

Mind, body, and spirit. Only two have played jokes on me so far...to my mind's knowledge, I guess.

Another thing to pay attention to is intuition...meaning what your heart wants over what your mind wants. Why does your heart want this, while your mind wants that?

Also, synchronicity. The world flows like it knows what its doing. If you really pay attention, I think its almost impossible not to think theres something greater at work.

Finally, there's history. I did a lot of drugs before I educated myself on them. Once I read pretty much all of erowid, including the trip reports, I learned that my experiences were exactly like others from the past. I learned the same lessons, in the same steps, as pretty much everybody else. Plus theres been thousands and thousands of books on the stuff, dating back to the Bible. It all correlates.

I think so much of the world is based on believing. If we all believed that a miracle could happen, I think it would. The psychic and/or spiritual powers of man are way past what most think they are. Its just that we'll never have a world that all believes the same thing...and if we do, it'll because we're under super-police-state 1984 type control.

I know thats not all thought out or explained...I am in lack of time, but I wanted to comment on all this.


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:mallow:


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OfflineBigBallZMaN
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: LazyCrash]
    #4523153 - 08/11/05 07:18 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think that when someone says or thinks that they know what the afterlife is, then, if they truely beleive it is so, chances are it is. I doubt that *everyones* death, or afterlife is the same. We are such different beings, and our minds work in such tremendously different ways, that we all may experience death in a different manner, especially if the cause of death is profoundly different from another person, that the afterlife must be affected by all these things creating a different feeling, experience, or nothingness that one person might feel, that someone else might feel comepletely diffent on. I am not sure about all this, but I think that we are all going to experience a different death, afterlife, and if there is an afterlife, then Im sure that I wont be able to compare mine with that of my neighbors or the guy that lives at the end of the road.


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Our body is light, we are immortal.
Our body is love, we are eternal.
Eternal..

Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, without judgment.


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OfflineDimmy
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: BigBallZMaN]
    #4525090 - 08/12/05 03:02 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

the whole afterlife thing is interesting to think about yet no really ones knows what lies beyond. The cool thing is that we'll all find out sooner or later. I'm comfortable with the idea of dying, after a full and satisfying life that is. I sorta see the whole thing as an grand adventure. Dying is the ultimate leap into the unknown and sometimes can't help but to feel almost eager to find out whats next.


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:goose:


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OfflineLimelight
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Re: How are you so sure your profound experiences are true? [Re: Dimmy]
    #4525517 - 08/12/05 06:10 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Hopefully it's not just 'disappear into infinite blackness for all eternity'


--------------------
"The worst mistake that you can make is to think you're alive when really you're asleep in life's waiting room."


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