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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Quote For The Day
    #4516801 - 08/10/05 02:12 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Came in my e-mail

"As long as you don't forgive, who and whatever it is will occupy
rent-free space in your mind."
-- Isabelle Holland

It'll act like a energetic parasite "rent free mooching off of you"


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4516865 - 08/10/05 02:59 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

nice quote jiggy. still doesn't make forgiving any easier though!  :rant: :nonono:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4517337 - 08/10/05 09:54 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

One danger of forgiving is one, that I haven't riddled out yet.
If you forgive, chances are high to forget and chances then are high that it will happen again...
So hold some rent-place in your brain, to not let bad things happen again ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4517761 - 08/10/05 12:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think there is a difference between holding a grudge (not forgiving) and letting go of the past (forgiving), yet using the experience to inform your future decisions.

For instance, if someone betrayed your trust, you could choose to hold onto your anger and hurt, think about it frequently, and lose energy in the process.

Alternatively, you could accept that it happened, that you did not like the way they treated you, and move on. However, when you are asked to extend trust to them again, you could use what you learned in the past (i.e. they are not trustworthy) to inform your decision.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: Veritas]
    #4517829 - 08/10/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"Its, all an excuse, for not to be one.."
-Unknown.. :P


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Disclaimer!?


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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: Veritas]
    #4517871 - 08/10/05 01:11 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, but isn't it also about not to forget the emotional 'ubelievable' side of that coincidence, if someone does harm you in what way ever.
As our mind tends to 'ease' and 'make nice' our rememberings, i think it is valuable to not forgive until some point.

If I will forgive to easily, I will get played bad or exploited too often, even perhaps from the same persons...

I often feel the very heavy weight of not to be able to forgive. But it has played some principal role in my life so far. I don't know really why...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4517940 - 08/10/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I have struggled with forgiveness, too. At first, I found it satisfying to hold a grudge against those who had "wronged" me. What changed my attitude about it was recognizing that forgiveness is not for those who have done wrong, but for those who have been wronged.

Letting go, little by little, of my anger at others is good for ME. I trust myself to learn the lessons without the anger to reinforce them. How can you forgive "too easily" if it lessens that heavy weight you bear? IMO it would be an act of self-love to reclaim the energy it costs you to carry that weight every day.


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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: Veritas]
    #4517979 - 08/10/05 01:43 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I know, that I must solve this problem somehow, but the pure forgiveness out of nothing is something I can't handle.
I need something to justify my forgiveness.
The human(ity)-factor often helps me with this, but leads me to no real satisfaction.

Once I was asked, what I am looking forward or expect in 'heaven' or afterlive, I answered simply 'justice'.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4517987 - 08/10/05 01:46 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

nice replies everyone.

After reading Veritas then gomp, further thoughts on the nature of forgiveness were inspired.

Good addition gomp to remind how not forgiving is a form of rejection that splits the one into two or more. That's how fragments of the self are created.

To be forgiving means to give beforehand.

if you give your trust and it was betrayed or abused is it the fault of the betrayer or abuser of it?

Did you give expecting something in return?

Isn't that what they call Indian giving or conditional giving?

It's not giving, truly giving if something is expected in return is it?

This is another way expectations can lead to suffering.

This also ties in with Hues giving post.

When you give, truly give, you let go of what ever it is when the other person accepts it from you. It's NOT yours anymore. If they throw it in the trash, sell it, or treat it disrespectfully, it's now theirs to do that with.

I think anywhere we have grudges held against another, you'll find attached giving.

That's just as lousy of a thing to do as whatever it is the person did that lead to the begrudgment.

I talk about freeing yourself through living in perpetual forgiveness. That would be living in a continuum of not holding on to anything. As move about the days giving and receiving, all of our gifts of the self should be let go of as we give them away.

If you are not ready to let go of it, don't give it away. Your only setting yourself up for potential suffering if you still want control over it.

often, I think people who give with attachments just do it not to keep control over the gift, but the other person via the gift.

You hear people whine and bitch in victomhood, "look what that person did to me?" Do they ever pause to look at what they did that got the ball rolling? They were looking to subversively control another.

Lets take the classic "So and so cheated on me". Isn't the problem that they are pissed off because they realize they lost or have no control over the other person?

In a way, weren't they acting like slave masters to a slave? Then, when the slave breaks free, they hunt em down and chop off his feet like the slave did something wrong?

In cases where grudges and revenge and inability to forgive easily come into play it pays to look at the self. What ever you gave away and felt betrayed by, was the intent to freely give it away or was the intent to gain some level of control over the other with the "gift".

next time I see it come up in myself or others, I am going to look for that underlying dynamic. If I catch myself doing it, I'll probably laugh my ass off for attempting to be a potential control freak without realizing it and then let go in a heart beat.

I'm only human still and it's tough sometimes.

Sometimes, I like to remind myself that in my marriage, I choose to share my life with a selected other and it's out of a love to give and receive with that person.

Everything else is BS control shit.

if I were to catch him "cheating", what does that have to do with my inability to give of myself to him. That's is what i wanted to do in the first place right? Wouldn't an allowance for that also be another form of giving to him?

if I forgive first and live in perpetual forgiveness, then, it really wouldn't bother me if it happened.

The next issue in play is how we also hook up with others because we enjoy receiving from them.

I think often in cases of infidelity, when the other who is "cheating" stops giving and cuts the other off from receiving, that's when the break down and split occurs even though someone can forgive the act.

I talk about how I am working on self mastery and also the ultimate power potential I see in forgiveness.

The only thing I truly have control over is myself. being in a perpetual state of forgiveness is the only way I can be in my ultimate power.

Through holding grudges, we give some of our power away to another. While in such a state, like the quote I posted says, they have control over us through the grudge.

Look at how they gained that control over our power. This is cool. They have us on a puppet string because what was given came with a string attached and they have what was giving. The only way to release them from have that power of control over you is to LET GO of the freaking attachment string.

If you give without strings and attachments, that can never happen and you will always be in ultimate use of your power and control over yourself. That's all we really have. What greater way to be in your self realized truth.

Hey you guys, thanks for inspiring me to see it this way.

I love S&Pers! You are the best for bouncing stuff around with and inspiring new perspectives! I grow so much in understanding the mechanics of life with you all. :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4517993 - 08/10/05 01:47 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

LOL! As a child, one of my favorite phrases was "It's not fair!"

I thought that, as an adult, I would be able to demand and receive justice. Naturally, I learned that life is not arranged that way. I created misery for myself for a very long time over that concept.

My "justification" for forgiveness? I want to enjoy my life, and have all my life energy directed towards what is meaningful and fulfilling for me in the present. Perhaps that is what is meant by "living well is the best revenge"?


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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: Veritas]
    #4518009 - 08/10/05 01:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Hehe, wicked :smile: But thank, I will consider more :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4518047 - 08/10/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, jiggy, very cool post and I have to take it to my heart. I am not quite through with it now, because I am a slow reader...
edit (after reading): Thanks for the kick in my arse :smile: That, at least filled up the missing 50% of my consideration, so I can start contemplation about it. Thanks ! :thumbup:
edit2: And after a short first one, I allredy felt a big relieve, only to see that other part of the coin mor clearly. :heart: I will continue ... I haven't seen forgiveness as forhand giving before. But I fully understand that concept and I practice it in any onther terms....strange I lost the connection to that...

Jesus said (not wordly): G*d will forgive a sinner at this moment, as he won't do (this) sin anymore...
Thats a biblical perspective on forgiveness, I want to bring to rememberance, because I also find it very cool and true...
If we could only be such farseeing...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (08/10/05 03:08 PM)


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4518239 - 08/10/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Came in my e-mail

"As long as you don't forgive, who and whatever it is will occupy
rent-free space in your mind."
-- Isabelle Holland

It'll act like a energetic parasite "rent free mooching off of you"




my ex never forgave me...and i don't think i occupy any of her mind. what about forgetting?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: MJF]
    #4518259 - 08/10/05 03:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

If she never forgave you and forgot about you then, you went into a repressive state into her "sub" conscious. That'll pop up as a demon of hers to deal with.

Every guy she dates from there are will have what she begrudges you for superimposed onto them at some point.

Wild how it works.

Then again, How do you know that she didn't forgive you and let go of you? She may have done that AND decided just that she doesn't want to give her trust to you anymore. It may be a done deal.

I wouldn't worry about the grudges people hold against you. You can live in peace and power if you just keep an eye on your own.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Re: Quote For The Day [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4518373 - 08/10/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Or I am just a warrior, who needs a base of sadness (whos post it was ? :wink:) to struggle out his way for real forgiveness. Where all problems were solved and everyone is content.
:jesus:
(somehow there will be place for new flats in my mind :wink:)


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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