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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Victory
    #4516524 - 08/10/05 12:47 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Can you be both martial and spiritual?

Can you overcome your ultimate opponent?



To be martial requires discipline, courage, and perseverance. It has nothing to do with killing. People fail to look beyond this one narrow aspect of being a warrior and so overlook all the other excellent qualities that can be gained from training.

A warrior will have many opponents in a lifetime, but the ultimate opponent is the warrior's own self. Within a fighter's personality are a wide array of demons to be conquered: fear, laziness, ignorance, selfishness, egotism, and so many more. To talk of overpowering other people is inconsequential.
To actually overcome one's own defects is the true nature of victory. That is why so many religions depict warriors in their iconography. These images are not symbols for dominating others.
Rather, they are symbols of the ferocity and determination that we need to overcome the demons within ourselves.





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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Victory [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4516649 - 08/10/05 01:19 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

how does one overcome one's own demons?


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Victory [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4516709 - 08/10/05 01:38 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Select the demon in your personality that you feel you need to work on the most, and we can discuss how such a demon can be overcome.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Victory [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4516716 - 08/10/05 01:38 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Love, accept, forgive and make peace with them. They will have no reason to fuck with you any more to get your attention once you do.

Orrrrrrrrrrr you can pull out your astral light saber and chop their heads off.  :jedi: :sith: :starwars:

Just kidding and it's not recommended as they are just fragmented aspects of the self looking for reintegration. Fighting with yourself is stupid. Take them in and turn them into allies and they can teach you much and serve you well.

Think of your "demons" this way. They are parts of you that you cut off and away from yourself through such acts as self rejection, self hate, self denial, self judgment for an aspect not being good enough. Things like that. 

Demons are angry bastards not because they are evil but because you would be too if someone treated you that way and left you out in the cold with the trash.

Fighting them is not the answer. Doing what you could've done in the first place is, love, accept, respect, understand, give warmth, support and forgive those parts of the self.

They are your greatest teachers! And it does take courage to face them.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Victory [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4516789 - 08/10/05 02:06 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

sometimes i spend time on the shroomery when i should be doing other things.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Victory [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4516990 - 08/10/05 04:03 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Jiggy, you remind me of Ann Shulgin (well, what I know of her through reading Pihkal and Tihkal anyway) I like your viewpoint, it's comforting.

lol at toast! I think we all do that to some extent! :grin:


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Offlinealsey
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Re: Victory [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4517089 - 08/10/05 05:26 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

war and spirituality are completely interwined in history. in many cultures the spirituality became a way for removing fear of death in battle; a very important ability.

i like to practice traditional okinawan kempo kata. it is almost a form of meditation for me. doing everything slowly and with utmost focus, my mind is completely removed from the rest of the world. its a spiritually rewarding experience, yet the movements made are intended to kill and maim.

just look at the shaolin; their martial art becomes pretty much the main tool of learning for their spiritual life. the end result, becoming a strong warrior, is not the important part. its the process of learning which matters.


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"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Victory [Re: psychomime]
    #4517282 - 08/10/05 08:55 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

lol at toast! I think we all do that to some extent! 

________________________________________________

Not me. I post here seldom, and would never become addicted to sitting in front of a computer screen for hours at a time. That is just so weak and lame.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: Victory [Re: Icelander]
    #4518767 - 08/10/05 05:45 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think there are many 'demons' that need to be fought. Anakin should have fought his greed for life and power. Sometimes just recognizing/loving/accepting evil isnt the best solution. Unless dont believe in evil.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


Edited by LittleBen (08/10/05 05:46 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Victory [Re: LittleBen]
    #4518827 - 08/10/05 06:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Examine the source of greed for power. Typically, the need for power and control over others is compensating for a lack of self control and power over the self.

This is an external issue. Silly to fight with yourself or others. Inner work and exploring the self and its irrational fears of lack, not enough, etc is all that is needed to tame the demons.

Little Ben, how would Anakin fight against himself? Take us through a step by step of how that would work.

We can say we can overcome our weaknesses.

HOW do we you that?

What is your process, step by step?

I may learn something new here I never considered.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: Victory [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4518888 - 08/10/05 06:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think the process is a one stepper, deny evil. Thats what I meant by fight, does it come down to semantics? If not what are you saying he should do jiggy? I dont see a quality or fear in him that when accepted or loved would have changed his actions. I dont think accepting death as inevitable would have done the trick.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: Victory [Re: LittleBen]
    #4518901 - 08/10/05 06:27 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Just thought of a simpler example. Teenage hormones. If I had accepted my chemical lust my life would be very different. I fought my urges and in hindsight that was the right decision.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Victory [Re: LittleBen]
    #4518954 - 08/10/05 06:41 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I'm at a loss with that analogy because I never saw that sequil or read the book.

I didn't get to see what he was struggling with. Now your throwing in that he had a fear of death. I have no idea how many issues this dude had on his plate.

If yin and yang duality and polarity is the nature of reality, there will always be evil, the dark side, the shadow. If the option is to to deny it through fighting it, you will always be living in power struggles.

However, if the options is to dismiss/deny the validity of its excistance in the sense that it is a part of the illusion that allows for us to see the true reality, only the good, then , that can work to keep one in peace and out of struggle.

I use this example of how we no longer need film negatives to make the color prints. We've gone digital. Thats when opposing opposites become experienced as complimenatary contrasts.

That starts getting metaphysical and oh well.

I see externalized evils as projections of internalized ones un dealth with. Ussually when they are faced and dealt with, they stop being projected and you just don't see them in others anymore.

Thanks for answering my question. Wish I saw the movie or read the book so I could understand what you were looking at.  :smile:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: Victory [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4519024 - 08/10/05 07:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Watching episodes 1-3 wont let you in on Anakins depth, George Lucas has a sweet universe in his head but is an awful director. Fan novels are alright, Luke turning evil is damn cool but there is also a lot of crap out there.

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
If the option is to to deny it through fighting it, you will always be living in power struggles.




I feel that struggle all the time, but Im also very proud to be as active in that fight as I am. I got a little confused trying to understand what you said after that. I assume its not that evil is just an illusion. I like what your saying about complimentary contrasts a whole lot. I think its a very conscious way to think about good and evil. I would go as far as to say it can take you out of struggle, but its an excellent way to approach the poles.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Victory [Re: LittleBen]
    #4519353 - 08/10/05 09:10 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Nice reply.

I was thinking more on this. I was thinking about a philosophy I live by that says to work smarter not harder. That's one reason why I am into figuring out how to ease struggles and move into more ease.

easy livin is the life for me............ahhhhhhhhh

Then, I got to thinking about how some people simply enjoy hard work. I got to thinking about how people also enjoy a challenge, I do that.

We do struggle through challenges or they wouldn't be challenging.

I wondered, how it is that I engage in challenging experiences where I am not struggling with or fighting against something.

I have identified, that the idea of working against something has been replaced by working in co-operation with it.

That's one way.

have you ever fought against something to wits end and then finally gave in to the point of working with it? Didn't it suddenly resolve itself and work out well and go easily?

Try it sometimes. It takes humbling yourself, and that means telling ego to take a hike.

Here's something else I adopted over fighting and struggle yet still derive a sense of pushing myself and get a challenge from.

When I am met with resistance, or something that appears will take a struggle to work at to get what I am after, instead of flat out using force, or will power to push my way through, I move into right brain thinking and look for other options.

Say I want to put in a paved path from here to there. A tree is in my way. Do I meet the tree head on and struggle with the fucker and yank it out by the roots and kill it to get my way, or are there other options. I go into creative thinking. Hmm yes, I can make the path go around the tree. Hey that would actually look even better too.

The tree gets what it wants, life and I get what I want, a path from here to there and had to struggle with nothing, yet, got to enjoy a creative challenge and the feeling of triumph over the tree.

Bruce Lee once said to this guy in a movie when asked, that his style of fighting, was the art of no fight fighting. The other guy, looking for a fight was like, wtf, "show me". Bruce says, "later". The guy says , "No, now." Bruce says, "okay, see that island over there? We'll take this dingy to the beach so we have more room." The guy agrees gets off the big boat and onto the dingy and Bruce unties the line and lets the dingy drift away.

hahahahahaha

The guy got what he wanted, a struggle back to shore, and Bruce got what he wanted, a victory without a fight. It just took some creative thinking on Bruces part.


I will say this as I am learning it being a parent and watching my daughter grow. It seems to be that the greatest amount of fulfillment comes from 2 steps we take. First saying to some new challenge "I can do it" and then being able to say, "I did it."

I'm all for that feeling of triumph and victory. I think we can experience challenges and that reward without having to fight or struggle or result in winners and loosers.

I can say from experience it works, when I apply it. Some times I slip or have old repressed demons surface and tangle with them for a bit until I tire from beating on my own head and remember, there's another way.

There's always another way.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: Victory [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4519443 - 08/10/05 09:34 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Thats Enter the Dragon. Its not like he couldnt have whooped that english fool anyway, he just wanted to embarrass him (that boat almost sank while they were filming btw). Restraint is also important though.
Again, everything your saying I see in my own personal philosophy. If you put yourself in battles you shouldnt be in, your fucked. Keep on keeping on.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Victory [Re: LittleBen]
    #4519472 - 08/10/05 09:44 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Thats the movie! Which one sank? The big one or the dingy?

I'll end up renting the Atakin flick when it comes out DVD. I have the trilogy set.

Thanks for the discussion ben. You are nice to bounce back and forth with. I like exploring this topic and would forget stuff and not come up with anything new without people giving reason to remind and inspire me.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: Victory [Re: LittleBen]
    #4519500 - 08/10/05 09:54 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

The dingy and that guy didnt know how to swim or something like that. Dont worry about episodes 1-3, my life would be much better not having seen them.
Likewise jiggy, always good to hear someone invested in their life (and others) talk about it. Hazah for good living!


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Victory [Re: LittleBen]
    #4519520 - 08/10/05 10:00 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:

Hazah for good living! :cheers:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Victory [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4519703 - 08/10/05 10:40 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Jig, you misunderstood, methinks.

This isn't about "engaging at war with oneself" as you seem to be harping on. It's about cultivating the strength, courage, determination, honor, discipline and all the traits of what amounts to a "Warrior" [or Samurai if you're inclined to the far East], to transcend our own personal shortcomings that hinder our growth and personality development.

Don't make the brash and irrational assumption that such personal cultivation and enrichment equates to the loss of love, respect and kindness, nor the ability to work smarter rather than harder. If you think deeper, you might find that the exact opposite is in fact, the truth.

After all, how easy is it to succumb to one's weaknesses when one is weak, low in self esteem, cowardly, disenchanted, unethical, disorganized and confused?
The answer to this is easily evidenced in the number of distressed human beings across the entire world, be they criminals, junkies, evil-doers and so on. If only they had a stronger character with stronger traits, as aforementioned, they would overcome their weaknesses and realize that they are the one who is actually in charge - not their shortcomings. From there, they can take the first step towards self actualization and personal health.

And as Alsey pointed out:
just look at the shaolin; their martial art becomes pretty much the main tool of learning for their spiritual life. the end result, becoming a strong warrior, is not the important part. its the process of learning which matters.

Yes, the Shaolin are the perfect example of what I'm talking about. :thumbup:


And Crunchytoast.. I need help in that area too, my friend. :wink:



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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