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    #4516308 -

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4516324 -

Why are you even asking this, are you a racist?


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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. [Re: looner2]
    #4516346 -

.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4516349 -

I've always thought prejudice against the prejudice was hypocritical.

You judge someone simply because of one belief they hold? You should have more love and tolerance for fellow humans than to judge them simply because they have built-in emotions towards humans they don't know well (or know too well in some cases).


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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. [Re: Ravus]
    #4516356 -

.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4516370 -


I'm far from racist man. I have friends of all different ethnicitys. I'll give anyone a chance.

I just don't understand how someone could dedicate a whole life towards hatred, all over a skin tone???

The standard rebuttal. Of course you have friends that are black.

But seriously, the word racism holds no meaning. Everyone wants to be the least racist. It is almost a game. Just watch. Ravus will be called a racist for not throwing fiery hatred towards racism.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4516395 -

You say that racism is for completely ignorant people who are full of hatred, and then say you're not prejudice towards them?

There are plenty of educated, calm people out there who are still blatantly racist. Much of the time, it simply starts out as having pride in who you are, including your race, which is natural, and then evolves to you having enough pride in your race to the point of looking down on others who don't fit what you're proud of, which is also fairly natural.

Some people will have so much pride in their race and who they are that they'll fight against other races who try to breed with or take resources from that person's race. It can be reduced to simple protection, almost as if one was protecting one's country against intruders.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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. [Re: Ravus]
    #4516410 -

.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4516763 -

I think that racism is completely natural. Appearance is the first thing that we judge a person on, whether it's the way they dress, or their hair-do, or the color of their skin. If someone says that they don't make automatic judgements based on a persons appearance, no matter how subtle or minute, they are full of shit.

But what makes a person prejudiced or racist in a negative way is if they don't give people respect because of those judgements. I'll say it straight up; I'm racist. But if I meet a black person who is respectful and polite then I'll treat them the same way back. And it goes for anyone really. But I can't tell you how many blacks I run into who give me nothing but attitude and disrespect! And to them, I say "fuck 'em". Quite being a fucking victim and make things happen for yourself!

But prejudice will exist in some form or another no matter what. As long as we divide ourselves into separate social groups, even into families or lineages, there will be difference and discrimination.

I also think that most of these politically correct dickweeds are just as ignorant as the skinheads! and it's because of that hypocrisy that Ravus mentioned.

As for people in actual "hate groups"? these are an entirely different breed of people. Just the same as the moron vegans who refuse to eat butter on their toast and protest any stupid thing that they can (like when they put a Starbucks in the library of our school they protested against corperate ubiquity for like a week and then gave up). These people just want to feel like they are a part of something important. And they give people who really do care about issues like corperate imperialism, animal rights, and the preservation of European culture and identity a bad name. Fuck those people.

I don't mean to start arguments, but I'm sure I pissed someone off.

just my $0.02


--------------------

http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4516807 -

Learned association. When one encounters n amount of bad experiences with a group of people, one make an assumption that the whole group will do just as their bad counterpart.

Doesn't have to be a race, can be the cloth they wear, their age, what language they speak.

Quote:
I'll say it straight up; I'm racist. But if I meet a black person who is respectful and polite then I'll treat them the same way back.


Fuck yeah. I've also met a lot of white people that are trash, too though, every race has their bad seed.


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010001100100001001000101!

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Fospher]
    #4516926 -

I think 'races' do exist; a race is a group of people that share certian characteristics.

But, even humans within a certian race appear so vastly different to one another that it seems irrational to assume that experience with mexican-1 will equal experience with mexican-n. Sounds cliche, but no two people are the same. They may be similar, but they are not limited to their race.

To me, 'Racism' is making a priori statements about an entire group of people based on limited experiences with some of them. Prejudice is a conjecture. It is based of evidence from mexican-1 which is not relavent to mexican-2.

The future has no obligation to repeat the past.

Edited by MushmanTheManic (08/10/05 02:03 AM)

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4516930 -

Hmm....
"Prejudice is a conjecture" is self-referential.  :frown: Sounded good though.

Edited by MushmanTheManic (08/10/05 02:42 AM)

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4517274 -

All racism stems from fear in my opinion. I'm sure the KKK won't admit that, but its what I believe. People are just afraid of whats different.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4517309 -

Ignorance and hate arrises often from stress and overloaded minds who have no time for reflection of their ideas anymore.
In work, I am often overpushed with work and my mood goes straight into the cellars, my spiritual mind gets more narrow and more narrow, so that even the slightest inconvenience or problem can bring me to explosion (not often, but I fear that this will get more even I try to prevent).
It's simply the unknown, the difference, which hits a unprepared or unopen mind.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4517379 -

I bet 90% of the racists are parent influenced, the other 10% peer influenced who mopst likely get their racist views from parents also.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4517393 -



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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4517409 -

I bet 90% of the racists are parent influenced, the other 10% peer influenced who mopst likely get their racist views from parents also.

I am Caucasian and have been the victim of serious crime about ten times in my life. Three times the perpetrator was unknown; the other seven were all African American. Should this not have some influence on my outlook?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4517436 -

That depends on how deeply you look into the issue. It certainly could influence your outlook. But if you looked into the reasons why blacks seem to be involved in so much crime, you might find some understanding of the situation that would preclude a racist conclusion.

I myself used to be the target of black gangs in my youth. I took many beatings. I now believe I would have acted much the same as they did if I had grown up in the circumstances they did in my city. They lived in a getto, they were hated and feared by most whites and had a history of being taken advantage of and degraded. They were just finding some power agaist the white race that had enslaved them first physically and then ecomnomically and educationally. This is just my take on it, and I do not excuse their behavior, I just understand it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4517450 -

It would change, well more like make me question my outlook, but I would have to look at all the factors in the crimes commited upon me. btw what does this have to do with my post?


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4517459 -

Understanding is a separate issue.

My question to you is simple and straight-forward. Please answer first before adding social commentary.

You are walking down a street late at night. Up ahead on the sidewalk is a gang of blacks. Do you turn around, cross the street or stay the course?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4517465 -

I would honestly be afraid, but I would continue on my course.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4517471 -

Yes! I would get out of the way. But I would do the same for a gang of whites.  :seeya:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4517474 -

Icelander said:
That depends on how deeply you look into the issue. It certainly could influence your outlook. But if you looked into the reasons why blacks seem to be involved in so much crime, you might find some understanding of the situation that would preclude a racist conclusion.

I myself used to be the target of black gangs in my youth. I took many beatings. I now believe I would have acted much the same as they did if I had grown up in the circumstances they did in my city. They lived in a getto, they were hated and feared by most whites and had a history of being taken advantage of and degraded. They were just finding some power agaist the white race that had enslaved them first physically and then ecomnomically and educationally. This is just my take on it, and I do not excuse their behavior, I just understand it.


I refuse to pity and understand a group of people based soley on race. That's racism.

Understanding their plight is a construct of your mind. Having our prisons and welfare systems littered with blacks is a fact.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4517475 -

Nice way to get crunched. :shocked:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4517478 -

Icelander said:
They were just finding some power agaist the white race that had enslaved them first physically and then ecomnomically and educationally.


There were just as many white slaves as there were black slaves. The centuries-old race struggle in our countries is a smokescreen for what should really be a class struggle. The poor have been enslaved, persecuted, and exploited by the upper class regardless of skin colour. Words like ``redneck'' and ``white trash'' are deemed acceptable while the ``N-word'' is not is proof that as Americans, by and large, have been duped by rich folks into playing the race card.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: looner2]
    #4517483 -

I refuse to pity and understand a group of people based soley on race. That's racism.
_____________________________________________________

:thumbup: Or to hate them. This seems like a  simple awareness.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: looner2]
    #4517484 -

Just because alot of blacks are in prison or on welfare doesn't mean theres not other factors behind that "fact"


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4517504 -

Yes! I would get out of the way. But I would do the same for a gang of whites.

Fair enough. You can either walk past a gang of black on the left side of the street or a gang of whites on the right side of the street in equal numbers. You cannot walk down the center of the street nor turn around. Which do you choose?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4517515 -

Swami said:
Yes! I would get out of the way. But I would do the same for a gang of whites.

Fair enough. You can either walk past a gang of black on the left side of the street or a gang of whites on the right side of the street in equal numbers. You cannot walk down the center of the street nor turn around. Which do you choose?


Do the gangs know each other is there? IF so since I'm white I'd pick the white side most likely.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4517550 -

Ya got me. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4517555 -

Do the gangs know each other is there? IF so since I'm white I'd pick the white side most likely.

I would wager that nearly everyone would choose the side that looked most like them. This is ingrained.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4517603 -

Swami said:
You are walking down a street late at night. Up ahead on the sidewalk is a gang of blacks. Do you turn around, cross the street or stay the course?


I'd cue up my MP3 player connected to an external speaker and break out in song and dance showing them that I was one of them...
"Mammy, how I love you, how I love you, my dear old mammy!"


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4517605 -

:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4517811 -

Swami said:
Do the gangs know each other is there? IF so since I'm white I'd pick the white side most likely.

I would wager that nearly everyone would choose the side that looked most like them. This is ingrained.


If you so chose. How would you go about overcomming something so ingrained?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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. [Re: Icelander]
    #4517828 -

.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4517880 -

Do I have another personal freedom lever somewhere I haven't looked?


--------------------
Live by the foma that make you brave, and kind, and healthy, and happy.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4518379 -

Swami said:
Yes! I would get out of the way. But I would do the same for a gang of whites.

Fair enough. You can either walk past a gang of black on the left side of the street or a gang of whites on the right side of the street in equal numbers. You cannot walk down the center of the street nor turn around. Which do you choose?


What time of day is it?

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4519738 -

Usually people who go oh why are there racists? and oh why is there racism? oh they are ignorant!!! are people who've grown up in safe little suburban white communities.

if you get to interacting in a diverse city you'll understand why there is racism and you'll see stereotypes in action, constantly, everywhere.... like swami, most of the time crime has been perpetrated against me or my family members it has been at the hands of nonwhites.


--------------------
youi was a pig informatnt so you can go fuckyoruselfs

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: question_for_joo]
    #4519807 -

Whatshyou talkin' about Willis?


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4519823 -

whatcha talkin' bout niggah?

lol.
but seriously, racism can be fun. but just to an extent.


--------------------
?Religion is science, politics is Hollywood, and 50 cent is more influential than Dali Lama; welcome to the future?
-Fontaine

"Blessed are the peacemakers." Matthew 5:9

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #4520090 -

= 1000 words.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4520156 -

:thumbup: :heart: :inlove: :yinyang:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (08/10/05 10:18 PM)

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4520596 -

"There were just as many white slaves as there were black slaves. The centuries-old race struggle in our countries is a smokescreen for what should really be a class struggle. The poor have been enslaved, persecuted, and exploited by the upper class regardless of skin colour. Words like ``redneck'' and ``white trash'' are deemed acceptable while the ``N-word'' is not is proof that as Americans, by and large, have been duped by rich folks into playing the race card."
---------------------------------
Hit the nail on the head, you did! Black folks who are educated and upper-class (and I don't mean rich-rap-star upper-class) get more respect from educated whites. Why? Not because they are "whitified" as many would claim (although it does help when they don't speak in ebonics) but because they aren't "lower-class scum".


----------------------------------------
"Usually people who go oh why are there racists? and oh why is there racism? oh they are ignorant!!! are people who've grown up in safe little suburban white communities.

if you get to interacting in a diverse city you'll understand why there is racism and you'll see stereotypes in action, constantly, everywhere.... like swami, most of the time crime has been perpetrated against me or my family members it has been at the hands of nonwhites."
----------------------------------------
Too true! I wasn't racist until I moved to florida and actually had to interact with different minorities!

It may be true that minorities are economically oppressed and disadvantaged, but that doesn't make their blatant anti-white racism excusable. "Oh but whites did all this bad stuff to them..." yeah, well we aren't going to achieve harmony by carrying a grudge! Double standards are unacceptable, and I don't care what anyone says, there IS such thing as reverse-discrimination!

Besides, minorities have more freedoms and opportunities now than ever before! But most poor blacks want to continue bitching about racism because they are too afraid to take responsiblity for their own future and participate in "the white man's system". They'd rather be victims and get sympathy.

Being persecuted makes you noble after all...


--------------------

http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4520678 -

Dromni, I felt I should tell you that your posts on have been fucking amazing. :thumbup:

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4520785 -

Of course "reverse" discrimination exists. If you are white, just move to St. Thomas in the U.S.V.I to get a taste of what it's like to be a minority and discriminated against.

I didn't know how much it could suck.

You can try calling the police to come help you if you've been robbed or something, they may show up may not. Whitey is pretty much on his own there.

You can see the vanilla ice cream in the container in the window. They will tell you they are out of it. If you point it out, they will stare at you until you leave.

You can have all of the proper ID needed to make a transaction with your own bank account. They will make up something else you need to deny the transaction.

Once, I was at KFC and ordered a chicken sandwich. They said they were out of them. By mistake, I got the order of the guy who ordered AFTER me, he was black. He got the chicken sandwich they told me they were out of.

Not all of them were like that. Some loosened up after you proved your dedication to their way of life and spoke their lingo. others were some of the coolest people I have known, a part of my heart now, once the barrier walls came down.

I thought, I was sort of use to it after the years. I didn't know the effect it had on me and my nerves until I left for kauai, voted the friendliest place on earth by Conde Naste. (it is) I would go into the bank and be met with a smiling face and asked how I was and how they could help me. I noticed how tensed up I was ready for a hassle. What a fucked up way I was living in the V.I.. It took months for me to re-acclimate. At least I got to. I think of how some minority race people live with that BS all of the time.

It's exhausting and it's BS no matter who does it to whom anywhere.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4521364 -

It may be true that minorities are economically oppressed and disadvantaged, but that doesn't make their blatant anti-white racism excusable. "Oh but whites did all this bad stuff to them..." yeah, well we aren't going to achieve harmony by carrying a grudge! Double standards are unacceptable, and I don't care what anyone says, there IS such thing as reverse-discrimination!
_________________________________________________

I never said that any racism was excusable, I just understand it's origions. You might have gotten some impression that I excuse these actions but I said I did not. Of course there is reverse discrimination. The beatings I took as a kid are the example. I did nothing to warrant the attacks I received except be a loner. And I agree that each of us are responsible to make our life work. Some have great disadvantage from childhood experience so this can be difficult.

The class struggle is the real deal. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4522515 -

With regards to the white gang on the one side of the street and black gange on the other side of the street, well, I'd avoid the 'gang' that seems most malicious. Also, location is a factor. Are you in a community where there's a huge and destitute black ghetto? Or a huge and destitute white ghetto?

It's taken rather matter-of-factly in psychology that stereotyping derives from the way humans are required to process information. We need to categorize to make sense of the world, otherwise we'd have to take each bit of sensory experience and deal with it individually. There'd be a bunch of redundant information in there, so this isn't an efficient way to do things. With this awareness, however, we have to become aware of where our categories - whether they be racial or intellectual or whatever - fall short, and when it's time to amend them.

I think it's likely that there are characteristics - in about all spectra of human existence - that differ with regards to race, but these characteristics are by no means exclusive to any race, nor are they absolute - they lie on a gradient. I do suspect, however, that most of a given race's proclivity towards crime in a given country is due more to socioeconomic factors that are in one way or another the result of race rather than a direct result of race itself. People sometimes act as if there isn't a huge white trash population in America.

Come on, now. I've met white people that are fucks, black people that are fucks, hispanic people that are fucks, &c., but I've met plenty of good people from every race.


--------------------
\

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #4522643 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
= 1000 words.


:thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4522862 -

I did nothing to warrant the attacks I received except be a loner.

Maybe they were from the future and went back in time to punish you for some act you have yet to commit.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4522902 -

I'll be back...

Edited by Veritas (08/11/05 04:32 PM)

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4522910 -

You are one deep mutha fucka! I never thought of that. :mrt:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4522984 -

Drugs and 6 years of sci-fi posts on S&P have finally got to me. :shrug:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Swami]
    #4523014 -

More drugs nurse. Stat.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Racism - only for the completely ignorant? [Re: Icelander]
    #4526063 -

oh icelander, I wasn't saying that you were excusing anti-white racism. I was refering to people I know in person. I know a person or two, both females, who always make excuses for anti-white racism. One of them has blatantly said that it's okay for blacks to hate whites because of the way that "we" have oppressed them.

and thanks MushMantheManiac! I always try to be poignant...


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http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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