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Offlinepsychomime
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Natural Selection Pressure on Humans
    #4515563 - 08/09/05 09:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Where do you think selection is taking us in terms of the ideologies we subscribe to and also in terms of physical attributes?

Firstly; in our current world situation.

Secondly; If we were to see the end of civilisation as we know it, such that natural selection would operate on us unhindered by medicine and laws.

please keep your post on topic. I want your view on how our species will change in the future. please do not post arguments for or against evolution. there are several other threads for that already.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: psychomime]
    #4515631 - 08/09/05 09:31 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

All the strong, brave, and courageous that have died in past wars whos genes have been eradicated are being replaced by the physically and mentally weak. Although now these are called the intellectuals.


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Invisibleorechron
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: looner2]
    #4515640 - 08/09/05 09:35 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Fool, I could bench double your IQ! :smile:


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: looner2]
    #4515643 - 08/09/05 09:36 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

good point looner2. but where does it lead? give me your prediction of the attributes of the human of the future.


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OfflineFiveLights
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: psychomime]
    #4515826 - 08/09/05 10:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Natural selection will stop working when people start modifying their DNA intentionally. So this question really doesn't have an answer.


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: FiveLights]
    #4515840 - 08/09/05 10:35 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

asssume that we won't be able to. come on people, think! no-one has given me a prediction yet.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: looner2]
    #4515964 - 08/09/05 11:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
All the strong, brave, and courageous that have died in past wars whos genes have been eradicated are being replaced by the physically and mentally weak. Although now these are called the intellectuals.




Not necessarily. It could be argued that the truely strong and intelligent in war are those who survive the battle, while those who die in battle are those who were too weak or slow to make it. Those who are afraid to fight may be dominated when natural selection takes over, but those who made it through combat and have the experience could be those that survive and continue the species in the hardest of times.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: psychomime]
    #4516002 - 08/09/05 11:20 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Where do you think selection is taking us in terms of the ideologies we subscribe to and also in terms of physical attributes?




This question is too complex to answer in a textbook, less likely a paragraph. Not to mention the fact that it is constantly changing. Natural selection may continue on as always, but the environment in which certain ideologies and attributes will thrive is constantly shifting, making those ideologies and attributes constantly shift also.

Though I believe it will take us to the ideologies that encourage the most growth and knowledge beneficial to our survival. Any ideology that encourages the spread of fire and tools, so to speak, is one that will dominate in times of hardship in my opinion.

In terms of physical attributes, right now natural selection is doing very little in terms of that. All sorts of people are breeding, whether they be fat, ugly, attractive, skinny, short, black, Asian, everybody is having kids. So I can't comment on that because there's no basis for any answers right now, nor do I know what environment will come up that will subject us to stronger natural selection.

If we are no longer controlled by laws and medicine, then it may be the strongest and tallest that survive. Unless there is a major shortage of resources, in which case it may be the smallest people most reserved in their resources. Without knowing the environment, you can't even make a wild guess.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: psychomime]
    #4516011 - 08/09/05 11:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Natural selection is on its way out as genetic designer babies (unnatural selection) are on their way in.

Hard call to make with the exponential rate technology is cruising at now.

Even look at how before, men were attracted to curvey women as they instinctively show the best promise for reproducing. Now most of the curves on women are fake.  :crazy2:


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4516040 - 08/09/05 11:29 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think it's unnatural selection at all. You're assuming humans are not part of nature, yet we were developed by natural selection, and following that logic, the development of genetic engineering is also a product of natural selection.

If genetic engineering increases our survival, then it is entirely within the realm of natural selection. Until we become immortal (which I don't believe is possible) we will always be subject to natural selection.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: Ravus]
    #4516134 - 08/09/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I knew that was going to come up. I actually agree with you.

It's fair to say evolution is giving us more options for how natural selection can work.

You know what I am saying. How would you word it?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4516158 - 08/09/05 11:48 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I would say that natural selection has given us the potential to use our minds like no other known animal before us, giving us unprecedented ways of increasing our chances of survival.

Genetic engineering is one of the many examples of this, but I don't think it's unnatural. We're simply exploiting another human potential that has been handed to us; it would be unnatural not to.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: Ravus]
    #4516210 - 08/09/05 11:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

That works and should be some good food for thought for psychomime.

Another growing pressure is the cost of energy and fuel and soon will be global warming issues, clean air and water.

These types of pressures are bound to force changes in human evolution.

Maybe that gives you another track to run on.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: Ravus]
    #4516515 - 08/10/05 12:45 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
All the strong, brave, and courageous that have died in past wars whos genes have been eradicated are being replaced by the physically and mentally weak. Although now these are called the intellectuals.




Not necessarily. It could be argued that the truely strong and intelligent in war are those who survive the battle, while those who die in battle are those who were too weak or slow to make it. Those who are afraid to fight may be dominated when natural selection takes over, but those who made it through combat and have the experience could be those that survive and continue the species in the hardest of times.




It could be argued that because it would make sense, but war more than anything else has two things that work against that theory: probability and attrition, those who seek glory for them self and their country are most likely those who will risk death to the greatest degree, and therefore for every tale of a gallant soldier saving the day in the face of danger, there were 50 more that died trying to achieve that. Attrition works in conjunction with probability, but virtually maximizes death to all.


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: looner2]
    #4516841 - 08/10/05 02:39 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

some good answers. still not what i was really looking for (hehe as if i ever could find what i was looking for!) perhaps i should be more specific.

there seems to be some consensus on the first part, the way we're going now will probably lead to genetic engineering, I agree. looking a bit further i would say that AI is going to improve to the point where cybernetics will play an important role in our evolution. that is if the machines don't enslave us first :grin:

I'm not satisfied with any answers to the second part though. think post apocalyptic earth. think mostly anarchy, no laws, most technology useless. some groups manage to keep some tech working. religious groups, scientific groups, warrior groups, co-operative groups. who is going to be successful? who will be selected against?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: psychomime]
    #4517372 - 08/10/05 10:20 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Machine-humans ? Organic-machines ? Same like Terminator (Cybernetic Organisms) but in a far wider range. The exchange between natural-organic-resources and the technical-build inventions will mix very strong.
That times could be phantastic great or horrible nightmare. It lies, like ever, in the human spirit what he will have built and experience in that future...
We will find methods to increase the speed of organic evolution, but the intellectual evolution has taken over its place.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: psychomime]
    #4517374 - 08/10/05 10:23 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not satisfied with any answers to the second part though. think post apocalyptic earth. think mostly anarchy, no laws, most technology useless. some groups manage to keep some tech working. religious groups, scientific groups, warrior groups, co-operative groups. who is going to be successful? who will be selected against?

You need to watch more late night cheesey Sci-Fi. Your answers lie therein.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: psychomime]
    #4517389 - 08/10/05 10:34 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

please keep your post on topic.

:rofl: You gotta love noobs.  :dielaughing:


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: Swami]
    #4517760 - 08/10/05 12:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

If you can get three posts on topic consider your thread a big success. :grin:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Natural Selection Pressure on Humans [Re: Icelander]
    #4517769 - 08/10/05 12:39 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

What's a topic?


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
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Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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